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Atheist looking for religious debate. Any religion. Let's see if I can be convinced.

infrabenji

Active Member
I am glad your standards have improved. They certainly are not improving in the world today,
as my profile attests.
But the more I understand the subtleties and nuances of science the more I both love science
and understand its limitations. Science has nothing to say about religion - religion exists in a
different realm (or magisterium if you like.) Religion is about the 'why' of the universe, something
science cannot speak for. And religion is about something from nothing, and that's impossible
to science.
Who, what, where, when, how, and WHY are all scientific principles of deduction. Physics is about the why of the universe. Something religion cannot speak for. Something from nothing is literally defined by modern physics. Overall, this argument is an example of a proof of logic, where philosophers attempt to "demonstrate" god with a logical syllogism alone, devoid of any confirming evidence. This is arguably inappropriate for establishing matters of fact. Religion and physics don't exist symbiotically for this very reason. As we learn more about our universe like the fact matter and energy cannot be destroyed so there has always been something the gaps that allowed god to hide are ever decreasing. Factual information is not the right yard stick for religion.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
You need to understand what the burden of proof is cOLTER. You're making unfalsifiable claims, providing no evidence, and continuing to engage in the fallacy of poisoning the well. I am not static. My mind can be changed but that requires sufficient evidence of any kind. Unfortunately, we have heretofore been unable to find a mechanism to test the supernatural, if we had, it would simply be referred to as natural and fact. Philosophy isn't super scientific. It's still considered an art. When you have a bachelors in philosophy you have a bachelor of arts. I find all religious people have to fall back on is philosophical hyperbole because as you stated religion cannot be proven objectively. Who's fault is that? gods? Do you want to talk about the argument from divine hiddenness? No, philosophy used to be a valuable tool for the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, especially when considered as an academic discipline. But religious people with little understanding of how to operate these mechanisms have bastardized them into nothing more than word soup. Circular reasoning that goes nowhere and polluted once great ideas with biased reasoning. As someone with a bachelors in theology, an associates in religion, an associates in philosophy, and a current student of law I've studied religions for over half my life and I have not heard anything new for a very long time. Maybe you'll be the first person in 600 years to come up with a brand new argument for the existence of god? Wouldn't that be cool. You may even win a debate with it someday.

What would objective evidence of the infinite even look like to the finite so that you could validate or disqualify it with your God-testing machine over in the science department???????
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Hello, I'm new to online forums. I chose this one specifically because I think it is very thought provoking. I love understanding and questioning different religious beliefs. I hope to have a debate that is robust, intriguing, and intellectually honest. I'm happy to debate anyone from any religious discipline and educational background. I currently do not have anyone to debate. I'll edit my title post, if possible, once the affirmative position has been occupied. Thanks in advance to anyone who will agree to debate. I'm ready to be convinced. Are you?

I'm always open to new perspectives. I hope you are, too. However, if your intent is to convince me your worldview is somehow more correct than mine, I'm afraid any debate would be an exercise in futility.

That said, I have no qualms about my views being questioned. What would you like to know?
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Hello, I'm new to online forums. I chose this one specifically because I think it is very thought provoking. I love understanding and questioning different religious beliefs. I hope to have a debate that is robust, intriguing, and intellectually honest. I'm happy to debate anyone from any religious discipline and educational background. I currently do not have anyone to debate. I'll edit my title post, if possible, once the affirmative position has been occupied. Thanks in advance to anyone who will agree to debate. I'm ready to be convinced. Are you?
I am game. I believe all that exists in the universe is "physical energy'. That is what sub-atomic particles and atoms are constituted of. And that there is no God, soul, heaven, hell, end of days and salvation. No need to change the title of the topic. It is in "General Religious Debates" forum, so that is OK. What would you want to know from me?
 
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SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
LoL! What a juvenile response. You haven't said anything original yet, its like snippets from the Atheist play book that have been repeated on this forum for years.

Years?! How long have you been a member here? :p
 

infrabenji

Active Member
I'm always open to new perspectives. I hope you are, too. However, if your intent is to convince me your worldview is somehow more correct than mine, I'm afraid any debate would be an exercise in futility.

That said, I have no qualms about my views being questioned. What would you like to know?
So....You want me to question your world views but are not willing to be convinced by any argument that your position could be wrong. Not saying it is. That's what it sounds like you're saying. I hope your having a great day. Thanks for stopping by my thread. I look forward to your clarification.
 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
What would objective evidence of the infinite even look like to the finite so that you could validate or disqualify it with your God-testing machine over in the science department???????

Shifting of the burden of proof. Nobody needs to disqualify anything until somebody had given us some reason to take it seriously in the first place.
 
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SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
So....You want me to question your world views but are not willing to be convinced by any argument that your position could be wrong. Not saying it is. That's what it sounds like you're saying. I hope your having a great day. Thanks for stopping by my thread. I look forward to your clarification.

I never said I'm not willing to be convinced. Your words, not mine. As I said, I'm open to new perspectives. I'm here to learn. If you bring new information to the table that I hadn't previously considered that suggests my view is somehow incorrect, I would, of course, adjust that view.

I don't agree with everyone's views here but I respect those that have them, as these perspectives are formed by each individuals experiences. Few are likely to allow words written in a forum by some random person on the internet to override their personal experiences.

You're an atheist based on your experiences, and I'm not an atheist based on mine.

I'll respect you for your views, though I may not be in agreement with them, if you afford me the same level of respect.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Isn't this forum a spin-off from Christian Forums? I joined CF in 2004. I could be mistaken but I see a lot of the same Atheists here with the same names.

Good question. I don't know the answer to this, as I was not a member of either at that time. Maybe one of the more tenured members can answer this question for you.
 

infrabenji

Active Member
I never said I'm not willing to be convinced. Your words, not mine. As I said, I'm open to new perspectives. I'm here to learn. If you bring new information to the table that I hadn't previously considered that suggests my view is somehow incorrect, I would, of course, adjust that view.

I don't agree with everyone's views here but I respect those that have them, as these perspectives are formed by each individuals experiences. Few are likely to allow words written in a forum by some random person on the internet to override their personal experiences.

You're an atheist based on your experiences, and I'm not an atheist based on mine.

I'll respect you for your views, though I may not be in agreement with them, if you afford me the same level of respect.
That's awesome! I was hoping that was the case. What god or gods do you believe in?
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
Shifting of the burden of proof. Nobody needs to disqualify anything until somebody had given us some reason to take it seriously in the first place.



Irony.



See, I could say that shifting the burden of proof is just from the theist play book...
Religious people don't need to shift the burden of proof of their own experiences. Its the Atheists that demand objective proofs of our subjective experiences. When we are unable to satisfactorily define, describe, prove the content of those experiences, the Atheist claims victory.

I think its reasonable to ask what possible objective proof could a finite demand of the infinite God that would satisfy you since by default you assume you know Infinite possibilities?
 
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leroy

Well-Known Member
Hello, I'm new to online forums. I chose this one specifically because I think it is very thought provoking. I love understanding and questioning different religious beliefs. I hope to have a debate that is robust, intriguing, and intellectually honest. I'm happy to debate anyone from any religious discipline and educational background. I currently do not have anyone to debate. I'll edit my title post, if possible, once the affirmative position has been occupied. Thanks in advance to anyone who will agree to debate. I'm ready to be convinced. Are you?
Lets start with the question that 99% of atheist can’t answer.

What would convince you that God exists? Is there any discovery, or observation etc. that would convince you that there is a God?
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
Dear Atheist, if religionists could prove their subjective experiences to be with God, you will still be stuck with having to develop a relationship with that God as a subjective experience in the realm of the spirit. The little game would be over. :coldsweat: That education used to create such a prideful balloon will be for not.
 
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