Its Good news .

[InChrist]

ok, I will try

it’s not easy for me to speak totally at ease

this is the internet after all

but consider that the Lord wants the absolute best for everyone

consider whether an infinite love, the source of all goodness and truth, could punish anyone

but then this infinite love cannot allow any evil to get near itself, nor near the heaven where it resides

what is the answer?

what if those individuals who have chosen a life of falsity and evil, through their own free will and choices, while are earth, must go to a “place” of their own making, where they can exist in their evils with others like them?

what if a hellish person, who resides in hell, was allowed to visit heaven? would he like it, or would he hate it and feel horribly out of place? would he possibly desire to get back to people who think and act more like him?

i have had an experience that may illustrate this:

i once had a good friend who I enjoyed many years spending time with. he had a habit of speaking very very poorly about everyone he knew, many whom I knew as well. i would listen, as a friend. i assumed he surely wouldn’t speak evil of me, would he? after years of this, I then found the Lord, and my desire to spend time in gossip fests no longer was there. at first, I would steer the conversations to other benign topics, but eventually had to mention that I did not like gossiping. he acted like i was attempting to murder him. how dare I say such a thing? he said he was only providing useful “information”.
and then, he eventually threw me away, and found others to continue living the life he loved.

just my ramblings

Thank you, very insightful ramblings.

 

[Alex22]

It sounds like false news.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

We only become a ' child of God ' through the new birth. John 1.12 . Every one who is not ' born again ' and in Christ, is not a child of God .

John, Christians don't have a monopoly on God's love.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

That's not what the bible says .
2 cor 5.19
17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;



19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

You are assuming that your new testament is correct. It is not. It is full of errors.

 

[InChrist]

That's not the point. The question is, will a loving father reject his children simply because they are not perfect? That is not a loving father, that is an abusive father. A loving father disciplines and teaches his children so that they become better, raises them to maturity. He doesn't cast them aside because they don't meet the standard of perfection.

And what about the ones who refuse wisdom and discipline? Are they to be forced to a standard when their heart has no desire to do so? What about those who are in total rebellion and take pleasure in evil?
You seem irritated that an SS Guard who murdered hundreds would be allowed to have an opportunity to repent and go to heaven, but now you’re saying God, like a good father should raise everyone to maturity. I guess you mean everyone should be allowed into heaven. What about Hitler who murdered thousands and thousands of Jews and others he considered unworthy to live? Should he be allowed into heaven? What about others who give themselves over to sin, exalting themselves over others, or embrace evil without ever repenting or demonstrating any remorse or interest in changing? Should perpetrators of evil be given the opportunity to perpetuate their evil for eternity? Is that loving? Is that justice?
My perspective is that an all- knowing, all- loving, completely just, wise God has a perfect plan in place for each one’s eternal destiny which includes each one’s participation... and God’s plan is infinitely superior to anything my finite mind or yours could conceive.

 

[joelr]

We know who wrote the bible from the narratives .Adding the names , maps , paragraphs , numbers , leather binding, red letters , ect is Helpful .

Just like we know who wrote the Greek myths and Vedic scriptures. They are all still myths. The evidence supports that.

We also know the Mesopotamian myths Genesis, Job and others were taken from. We also know the Persian, Greek and other myths the later books in the OT were derived from as well as the gospels.

 

[joelr]

Psalm 19
Psalm 19
Kjv

19 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.

3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
.

Every religion explains that you can see their God in the same way. It doesn't show they are real. They are still just stories created by people.

"
Accepting His supremacy, people worship Him as the abode, the beginning, the friend and the refuge. Though the human being seems to function independently with his body, senses, will power and intellect, there is an unseen force unifying the personality of the being and this is God. Even the leaf on the tree branch cannot quiver without this life-giving subtle factor.

His transcending nature is thus approachable to those who recognise Him while others who are blind to this continue in this cycle of birth.

The Lord has assumed manifold forms — Lakshmi, Saraswati, Kali, Rudra, Brahma, Vishnu, and so on, giving rise to a variety of devotees."

 

[John1.12]

Just like we know who wrote the Greek myths and Vedic scriptures. They are all still myths. The evidence supports that.

We also know the Mesopotamian myths Genesis, Job and others were taken from. We also know the Persian, Greek and other myths the later books in the OT were derived from as well as the gospels.

Yes ,this is what some believe. I believe the bible is true ,however. I used my own sense making to determine this . Many respected scholars take the bible seriously.

 

[John1.12]

You are assuming that your new testament is correct. It is not. It is full of errors.

Yes thats the story . Its interesting ,when i read it ,there are no errors.

 

[John1.12]

John, Christians don't have a monopoly on God's love.

Only Christians are ' known ' of God .

 

[halbhh]

A moral wrong however is done (usually) to another human and is something that is the concern of human beings alone.

Of course if you are the parent of a person that another human attacks, you are affected by that attack since you love your child that was attacked.

Right?

Consider that by definition we understand God is a parent to us all. This is why God 'hates' the sins we do: the ways we harm each other.

 

[halbhh]

Meanwhile, the thousands of innocent but unbelieving Jews he killed will all go to hell.

How is this good news? It is unjust and monstrous.

Yes, if it were just as you paint it (or anyone said such), then I'd instantly agree. But unsurprisingly (as you know well already in Judaism) God is just, not unjust.

And that continues (as one would think it would) in the 'new testament' also -- still perfectly just and fair:

6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
Bible Gateway passage: Romans 2:6-16 - New International Version

God's justice and fairness: unchanged.

The wonderful Good News is that Christ came to offer us a sudden total remission of our sins, through faith in Him, so that anyone that would want to repent in real faith (not just lip service, but the real thing) can do so. That's pretty Good News.

We have the same Justice as before Christ, but a new, wonderful more direct way to turn with total belief in God, to turn to His redeemer for us in faith, and be cleansed from our sins, fully relieved of them, even without any visit to a temple or extra sacrifices. The barriers have been bypassed through Christ.

 

[halbhh]

Ok, so if I never heard of the Bible, like say some pre-columbian American, I will for sure go to Hell, right?

ciao

- viole

No. All who hadn't heard the gospel will hear it we learn, as 'spirits in prison' even, getting a chance to turn in faith and be saved.

 

[halbhh]

Mark itself is a highly fictive, mythic text

Since even this idea itself is a theory -- a speculative idea about unknowns: a guess about the unknown degree of which Mark conveys actual events -- I'd not put a special trust in even this theory, if I were you.

I didn't try to reach any conclusion at all about how precisely Mark conveyed actual events when I read in it.

Why not?

Because that's entirely irrelevant to someone merely trying to find out what is actually true.

How so? Because a perfect fidelity of a transcription of a set of speeches doesn't make the ideas in the speeches, however accurately recorded, correct.

If you have a perfect video tape of a guru giving a talk, you have a perfect record. But that doesn't make the ideas the guru states all necessarily correct. Some might be correct, and some might be false.

To actually know what is a correct idea, you have to test the ideas to find out.

 

[sayak83]

Of course if you are the parent of a person that another human attacks, you are affected by that attack since you love your child that was attacked.

Right?

Consider that by definition we understand God is a parent to us all. This is why God 'hates' the sins we do: the ways we harm each other.

Humans are quite capable of deciding the proper mode of reparation for wrongs being done to them. Thus we are unlike children. Furthermore in the Bible or the Quran, much of what is sin is breaking laws dictated by God. God therefore acts as if he is the aggrieved party. Unfortunately that does not work as God, having all the power, cannot be hurt or wronged unless he wants that outcome himself for some reason. This the entire concept of sin is moral nonsense.

 

[halbhh]

Humans are quite capable of deciding the proper mode of reparation for wrongs being done to them. Thus we are unlike children. Furthermore in the Bible or the Quran, much of what is sin is breaking laws dictated by God. God therefore acts as if he is the aggrieved party. Unfortunately that does not work as God, having all the power, cannot be hurt or wronged unless he wants that outcome himself for some reason. This the entire concept of sin is moral nonsense.

If you yourself saw a person being attacked in a park, would you stand by and do nothing, if you were able to intervene and stop the attack or in some way cause the attacker to be brought to justice?

If you care about people (strangers you don't know personally), or have a set of principals to the similar effect, you'd do something.

Because you want the person that was attacked to become safe, and the attacker to be confronted for their wrongdoing.

So it is with God.

Instead of not caring about us/not caring about wrongs done against us, He does care about us, and does care about wrongs done against us.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

No. All who hadn't heard the gospel will hear it we learn, as 'spirits in prison' even, getting a chance to turn in faith and be saved.

The ' spirits in prison ' are the 'demonic angels' of 1 Peter 3:19 and they are condemned, No saving for them.
I find they are Not spared according to 2 Peter 2:4; Jude 1:6.
Just like sinner Satan they will be destroyed by Jesus - Hebrews 2:14; Romans 16:20; Revelation 21:8.
Resurrection is for the just and unjust, Not the wicked - Acts of the Apostles 24:15.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Ok, so if I never heard of the Bible, like say some pre-columbian American, I will for sure go to Hell, right? ciao- viole

First of all, I find the dead go to hell just as dead righteous Jesus went to hell as per Acts of the Apostles 2:27.
Not to some religious-myth hell teaching of forever flames, but the Bible's temporary hell or grave.
If biblical hell was a permanent place Jesus would still be in hell.
Jesus and the OT both teach 'sleep' in death - John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5.
So, the Bible's hell is simply mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.
Temporary until 'Resurrection Day' ( meaning Jesus' coming Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth )
Thus, the pre-columbian Americans will be brought back to life during Jesus' 1,000-year reign over Earth.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Christians tell me that if an SS guard, responsible for killing thousands of Jews, on his death bed asks Jesus into his heart, he will go to heaven. Meanwhile, the thousands of innocent but unbelieving Jews he killed will all go to hell. How is this good news? It is unjust and monstrous.

I find the ^ above ^ is Not what the Bible teaches.
Those guards and Jews are ' sleeping ' in death (Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14)
They could be part of the 'righteous and unrighteous' resurrection as found at Acts of the Apostles 24:15
Adverse Judgement is for the wicked who will be 'destroyed forever'- Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22

 

[John1.12]

You are assuming that your new testament is correct. It is not. It is full of errors.

God

First of all, I find the dead go to hell just as dead righteous Jesus went to hell as per Acts of the Apostles 2:27.
Not to some religious-myth hell teaching of forever flames, but the Bible's temporary hell or grave.
If biblical hell was a permanent place Jesus would still be in hell.
Jesus and the OT both teach 'sleep' in death - John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5.
So, the Bible's hell is simply mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.
Temporary until 'Resurrection Day' ( meaning Jesus' coming Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth )
Thus, the pre-columbian Americans will be brought back to life during Jesus' 1,000-year reign over Earth.

Why does it follow that if hell is a permanent place Jesus would remain there ?