Its Good news .

[Jeremiah Ames]

Yes

but that doesn't change the fact that it ( the gospel) is good news . Wed all be lost if Jesus never went to the cross or resurrected.

correct, but how we become found is the dilemma faced by humanity

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

Welcome to the forum.

FYI, Christians believe that Jesus saved them from the original sin committed by Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. I do not believe that Jesus saved us from that since I believe the story is allegorical, but I do believe that Jesus saved us from something else.

“…those who turned toward the Word of God and received the profusion of His bounties—were saved from this attachment and sin, obtained everlasting life, were delivered from the chains of bondage, and attained to the world of liberty. They were freed from the vices of the human world, and were blessed by the virtues of the Kingdom. This is the meaning of the words of Christ, “I gave My blood for the life of the world” 6 —that is to say, I have chosen all these troubles, these sufferings, calamities, and even the greatest martyrdom, to attain this object, the remission of sins” Some Answered Questions, p. 125

Thank you for the welcome and for the wonderful response.
It’s quite sensible, yet not the doctrine of most of Christianity.
I considered myself a Christian most of my life, but had to unfortunately remove that title, since the more I understood the Bible, the more I recognized I wasn’t like the Christianity (in thoughts, desires, and actions) that is followed today by most church buildings and the people in them

 

[Colt]

The' Gospel ' literally means 'good news ' .This is described in a nut shell in 1 cor .15 .1-4

1¶Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3¶For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Often Christianity is argued against for various reasons ,but negatively .the central message is actually 'good news ' literally.
Good news for the whole world. The message of how Jesus has died for our sins . Its 'good news '. Why do some treat it as bad news . Its a free gift also . You cannot earn it . Its the offer of eternal life.
So it's:
- eternal life ,
- forgiveness of sins ,completely ,past present and future .
- Peace with God
- Justification
- redemption
- Blessed with all spiritual blessings
- Its all a free gift
- cannot be earned
- recieved through faith
- No rituals,pilgrimage, special clothes ,bno joining an organisation , club , ' church ' no practices, no asceticism , to recieve all of the above .
Even if you argue that its not true, I don't believe its sensible to argue that the message ( Gospel ) is negative, or bad news ,if it is indeed true . Which of course I believe it is .
Thoughts?

The original “good news” before the tragic rejection and cross was God is our Father. Salvation is by faith.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

As I posted to another


Find me the word “torture”. As a finite created beings, I don’t think you or I have the ability to say or determine whether the eternal punishment God designates is unjustified. As well, the scriptures are repeatedly clear that God is Just.
Those are my thoughts, I realize you likely disagree and that’s your prerogative.

consider the following:

as Christians, we would believe the Lord is infinite love, infinite mercy, infinite justice, to name a few.

then consider that anyone (or anything) that has those qualities cannot yearn for revenge (payment for wrongs done), cannot get angry, cannot desire ANY harm or pain of anyone, cannot create a place of torment, to name a few.

but at the same time, the Lord’s kingdom, or heaven, could not possibly have a spot for people who seek evil

is there a way, all of the above could be satisfied? while still fitting perfectly in the words of the Bible?

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

Actually that idea is just a theory (though it used to be popular in some churches), one of seven main theories of atonement, and not the one I'd expect myself to best fit all the texts. I'd instead offer the one that fits best the most key chapter about it, Romans chapter 6.

That Christ came to break the grip of evil on us, to free us, for any that would believe in Him.

He came to set us free.

To free us from the invisible but very real prison of the accumulation of our wrongdoing in life (such as returning an insult towards someone that insulted us, etc.).

your statements seem correct to me

thank you

 

[Trailblazer]

Thank you for the welcome and for the wonderful response.
It’s quite sensible, yet not the doctrine of most of Christianity.
I considered myself a Christian most of my life, but had to unfortunately remove that title, since the more I understood the Bible, the more I recognized I wasn’t like the Christianity (in thoughts, desires, and actions) that is followed today by most church buildings and the people in them

You're welcome.
I was never a Christian because both my parents dropped out of Christianity before I was born... I joined the Baha'i Faith during my first year of college because I loved the spiritual and social teachings and the vision of world peace and the unity of mankind and that all religions came from one God. However, since I was not raided believing in God, I had no conception of God at that time, and I was not really searching for God so I did not care much about God.

I am not what i would consider a religious person so fro many decades I was not very active in my religion partly because I was young and had other things to pursue in my life. It was not until about eight years ago that I started getting serious about God and my religion and now that has become my major life pursuit..

Since I was not interested in religion per se, I knew absolutely nothing about the Bible or Christianity until I started posting on forums about eight years ago. Now I know a lot from posting to Christians and reading their posts and looking up Bible verses so I can engage in discussions with Christians.

 

[sayak83]

The word “Gospel” means “good news”

Paul clearly defines the Gospel for us. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4

Vs. 3 Christ died for our sins

Vs. 4 And that he was buried

Vs. 4. He rose again the third day

According to the Scriptures.

They had believed it. Vs. 1

Received it and stand on it

There are many who try to change the Gospel

By limiting it

– only certain nationalities

-- only certain races

-- only certain people (chosen by God)

By adding to it.

-- Works (keeping the ten commandments, obeying the

golden rule etc.

-- Baptism

-- Other church additions

- Lord’s supper

- Church membership

By taking away from it.

-- No resurrection

-- No atonement ( his death meant nothing)

Paul warned against changing the Gospel in any way. Gal. 1:7-9

The Gospel is Good news

I. It demonstrates God’s love for us.

Rom. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

You are avoiding the point. Does the Gospel not say, multiple times in many ways, that human beings in their current state, are damned by God? Yes or No? Can you deny that this is not an extremely bad news?

 

[sayak83]

Not in the context its given . To sinners .

Calling people sinners and damned unless they believe is not bad news?

 

[viole]

If you never heard the gospel it wouldn't ' influence ' your eternal destiny . ' influence ' is the wrong word.

Would my odds to go to Heaven be higher, lower, equal?

ciao

- viole

 

[John1.12]

Calling people sinners and damned unless they believe is not bad news?

If its true then the Gospel is good news for sinners . Are you saying everything i listed was bad ? Eternal life ? Most people are desperate to keep their skin young ,their hair full and such , no one is looking forward to death .

 

[John1.12]

Would my odds to go to Heaven be higher, lower, equal?

ciao

- viole

Odds ? There is no 'odds 'for a person who believes the Gospel and recieves Jesus . Their Spirit is resurrected immediately. Heaven is assured and Guaranteed.

 

[sayak83]

If its true then the Gospel is good news for sinners . Are you saying everything i listed was bad ? Eternal life ? Most people are desperate to keep their skin young ,their hair full and such , no one is looking forward to death .

But according to the Gospel everybody is a sinner (bad news) destined to hell by God (very bad news) unless they accept Christ (good news). So I am counting two bad news and one conditional good news.
Let us compare with a message like: nobody is a sinner and everybody goes to heaven.
That would be completely and unconditionally good news correct?

 

[John1.12]

But according to the Gospel everybody is a sinner (bad news) destined to hell by God (very bad news) unless they accept Christ (good news). So I am counting two bad news and one conditional good news.
Let us compare with a message like: nobody is a sinner and everybody goes to heaven.
That would be completely and unconditionally good news correct?

Yes that would be good news for everyone if it were true . It would be slightly wishful thinking though to believe no one has ever sinned . One lie would do it .

 

[sayak83]

Yes that would be good news for everyone if it were true . It would be slightly wishful thinking though to believe no one has ever sinned . One lie would do it .

No, its not wishful thinking. Concept of sin is entirely different from the concept of doing something wrong. Sin is something that God holds against us for judgement or damnation. A moral wrong however is done (usually) to another human and is something that is the concern of human beings alone. Thus many religions have the concept of moral wrong but not a concept of sin since according them God holds nothing against us for anything that we do.
Hence the Christian concept of sin is "bad news".

 

[Trailblazer]

Odds ? There is no 'odds 'for a person who believes the Gospel and recieves Jesus . Their Spirit is resurrected immediately. Heaven is assured and Guaranteed.

I believe in the Gospel and Jesus, will I go to Heaven even though I am a Baha'i (according to your beliefs)?
I have different beliefs about how to get to heaven, but I wanted to hear yours first.

 

[viole]

Odds ? There is no 'odds 'for a person who believes the Gospel and recieves Jesus . Their Spirit is resurrected immediately. Heaven is assured and Guaranteed.

Ok, so if I never heard of the Bible, like say some pre-columbian American, I will for sure go to Hell, right?

ciao

- viole

 

[Trailblazer]

You are avoiding the point. Does the Gospel not say, multiple times in many ways, that human beings in their current state, are damned by God? Yes or No? Can you deny that this is not an extremely bad news?

I don't really think that the Gospel says it, Christianity teaches it, but that is because they go back to Adam and Eve and believe in original sin. Jesus knew nothing of any original sin. That's the good news.

 

[John1.12]

Ok, so if I never heard of the Bible, like say some pre-columbian American, I will for sure go to Hell, right?

ciao

- viole

People go to hell because they refuse to believe the truth so as to be saved. ( according to the bible ) . Creation testifies of the creator.

 

[InChrist]

consider the following:

as Christians, we would believe the Lord is infinite love, infinite mercy, infinite justice, to name a few.

then consider that anyone (or anything) that has those qualities cannot yearn for revenge (payment for wrongs done), cannot get angry, cannot desire ANY harm or pain of anyone, cannot create a place of torment, to name a few.

but at the same time, the Lord’s kingdom, or heaven, could not possibly have a spot for people who seek evil

is there a way, all of the above could be satisfied? while still fitting perfectly in the words of the Bible?

I would be interested in further elaboration of your thoughts.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The' Gospel ' literally means 'good news ' .This is described in a nut shell in 1 cor .15 .1-4

1¶Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3¶For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Often Christianity is argued against for various reasons ,but negatively .the central message is actually 'good news ' literally.
Good news for the whole world. The message of how Jesus has died for our sins . Its 'good news '. Why do some treat it as bad news . Its a free gift also . You cannot earn it . Its the offer of eternal life.
So it's:
- eternal life ,
- forgiveness of sins ,completely ,past present and future .
- Peace with God
- Justification
- redemption
- Blessed with all spiritual blessings
- Its all a free gift
- cannot be earned
- recieved through faith
- No rituals,pilgrimage, special clothes ,bno joining an organisation , club , ' church ' no practices, no asceticism , to recieve all of the above .
Even if you argue that its not true, I don't believe its sensible to argue that the message ( Gospel ) is negative, or bad news ,if it is indeed true . Which of course I believe it is .
Thoughts?

Christians tell me that if an SS guard, responsible for killing thousands of Jews, on his death bed asks Jesus into his heart, he will go to heaven. Meanwhile, the thousands of innocent but unbelieving Jews he killed will all go to hell.

How is this good news? It is unjust and monstrous.