If Jesus returned to this world, how would you know it was Jesus?

[Trailblazer]

All Scripture is God-breathed . 2 Tim 3.16 . So your suggesting that God is ok with his message being filled with errors ?

I did not say it is filled with errors but it is not inerrant because humans are not perfect. God knows that.

 

[Trailblazer]

What Bahaollah did was for his own ego. He wanted to be an even greater Mohammad.

No, everything that Baha'u'llah did was for the sake of God, none of it was for Himself.

“Who can ever believe that this Servant of God hath at any time cherished in His heart a desire for any earthly honor or benefit? The Cause associated with His Name is far above the transitory things of this world. Behold Him, an exile, a victim of tyranny, in this Most Great Prison. His enemies have assailed Him on every side, and will continue to do so till the end of His life. Whatever, therefore, He saith unto you is wholly for the sake of God, that haply the peoples of the earth may cleanse their hearts from the stain of evil desire, may rend its veil asunder, and attain unto the knowledge of the one true God—the most exalted station to which any man can aspire. Their belief or disbelief in My Cause can neither profit nor harm Me. We summon them wholly for the sake of God. He, verily, can afford to dispense with all creatures.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 85

Bahaollah did not do work for his living in all his life. He thrived on the funding by his followers, lived in large mansions in with three wives and fourteen children, except for short periods when he was imprisoned. Other religious leaders also do that.

All that is a distortion of the truth, but I am mot going to waste my time correcting it.
Maybe my friend @ Truthseeker9 can come and straighten this out tomorrow since he knows more about Baha'i history than I do.

 

[Aupmanyav]

They don't, because they are still waiting for the Messiah / Promised One that they have made in their own image, according to their respective beliefs regarding what he will be like and do.

Theist Hindus are not waiting for Kalki to come. He will come when he will - 425,000 years from now. That means after some 1,700,000 generations (one generation taken as 25 years long).

And when Kaliyuga ends, the world will go directly into another golden phase (there have been many such periods. With Hindus, things are cyclic), the universe will not be dissolved. For theist Hindus, as per the scriptures, the Great Dissolution will come only after 155.5 trillion years from now. According to them, we have completed about half of the universe's life. Of course, I do not believe in this silliness. I basically do not believe in any kind of silliness.

Perhaps Zoroastrians and Buddhists also think that way. Life will go on as usual till that time. It is the Christians and Muslims who think that the 'Day of Judgment', 'Yawm al-Qiyamah' could be tomorrow or even this evening (it is 12 noon here when I am posting this).

 

[Aupmanyav]

Maybe my friend @ Truthseeker9 can come and straighten this out tomorrow since he knows more about Baha'i history than I do.

I also know some of the Bahai history. Bahaollah remained in prison for some four months in Tehran, and departed in April 1853 for Baghdad with his family and followers. He was accompanied by a member of the Shah's bodyguard and a representative of the Russian embassy. Later in Acre, Bahaollah was not a prisoner, but confined to Barracks. He was allowed to move out of it after some two years. Later he stayed in nice houses in Acre.

 

[firedragon]

Evidence of the existence of soul has never been found.

So argument from silence??

Yet you claim "what you know of science".

What you dont know is not what you know.

 

[firedragon]

Where did you ever get such an idea? You certainly did not get it from the Bible.

This is what you want, this is not what Jesus ever promised to do when He returns. Baha'is do not need to see any miracles to believe in Baha'u'llah because we know who He was by His own Person, what He did on His Mission, what He wrote, and by all the Bible prophecies He fulfilled by His coming.

Jesus said we would know a true prophet by his fruits, not by His miracles.

Matthew 7:15-20 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Fruits: the pleasant or successful result of work or actions: fruit

Jesus is supposed to command all of those who do not follow him to be slain in front of him.

How do you account for that? Metaphorical?

 

[Aupmanyav]

So argument from silence??
Yet you claim "what you know of science".
What you dont know is not what you know.

Knowing and realizing that nothing has been found ever, in the last 5,000 years, is knowledge and realization. Those who do not know will still be believing in fictitious things.

 

[Brian2]

Jesus is supposed to command all of those who do not follow him to be slain in front of him.

How do you account for that? Metaphorical?

Luke 19:26 “He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away. 27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’”

This is a parable and the ones who are slain know that the King is just on a journey and will return but do not want the King to be their ruler.
We can take Jesus to be the King but I don't think it is saying to slay all who do not follow him.

 

[firedragon]

Knowing and realizing that nothing has been found ever, in the last 5,000 years, is knowledge and realization. Those who do not know will still be believing in fictitious things.

Its fictitious to believe something is fictitious without evidence and make false claims of knowledge when you dont have it. That is a more disingenuous than you would know but when being it is a habitual thing what could one do?

Have a good day.

 

[firedragon]

Luke 19:26 “He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away. 27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’”

This is a parable and the ones who are slain know that the King is just on a journey and will return but do not want the King to be their ruler.
We can take Jesus to be the King but I don't think it is saying to slay all who do not follow him.

Alright. SO you are making a distinction between "accept me as king" and "follow me". Fine.

Still, this is Jesus who commands as is in the verse, and Bahaullah who is supposed to be this second coming had no power or acceptance to do any of it. So what is the Bahai response to this?

Thats the question.

 

[soulsurvivor]

Where did you ever get such an idea? You certainly did not get it from the Bible.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him

Many Christians believe that he will appear like some giant in the skies so everyone can see him.

I think it means he can be seen by everyone simultaneously on TV.

Anyway if everyone can not see him, then the prophesy is not fulfilled. I don't think more than a few thousand saw Bahaullah

 

[Brian2]

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him

Many Christians believe that he will appear like some giant in the skies so everyone can see him.

I think it means he can be seen by everyone simultaneously on TV.

Anyway if everyone can not see him, then the prophesy is not fulfilled. I don't think more than a few thousand saw Bahaullah

I don't think it means that every eye will see Him coming back. The dead people who pierced Him have not even been resurrected at that time.

 

[Brian2]

Alright. SO you are making a distinction between "accept me as king" and "follow me". Fine.

Still, this is Jesus who commands as is in the verse, and Bahaullah who is supposed to be this second coming had no power or acceptance to do any of it. So what is the Bahai response to this?

Thats the question.

I make a distinction between those who believe and want to follow and those who know and do not want to follow. (But of course it is a parable and we probably should not read too much into it)

And yes Baha'u'llah is dead and did not come back to life but I think you will find that Baha'is see Baha'u'llah as being in heaven with Jesus (and the rest of the Messengers,,,,,,,,,,,,in another station no doubt) and I guess directing things through the Holy Spirit which Baha'u'llah is said to have given.
They might say that those who do not follow Baha'u'llah are going to be spiritually killed.

 

[firedragon]

I make a distinction between those who believe and want to follow and those who know and do not want to follow. (But of course it is a parable and we probably should not read too much into it)

And yes Baha'u'llah is dead and did not come back to life but I think you will find that Baha'is see Baha'u'llah as being in heaven with Jesus (and the rest of the Messengers,,,,,,,,,,,,in another station no doubt) and I guess directing things through the Holy Spirit which Baha'u'llah is said to have given.
They might say that those who do not follow Baha'u'llah are going to be spiritually killed.

Yeah. Everything is "Spiritual" when it is not possible to reconcile. that's the Bahai strategy.

But I am yet to see any of Bahai scripture that says "Bahaullah and Jesus are in heaven together". Can you please quote which writing of theirs states this from Bab, Bahaullah, Effendi or Abdul Baha?

Thanks in advance.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Where in the Qur'an does it say that the afterlife (heaven) is a physical place?

This Wikipedia page, though far from perfect, gives some of the places in the Qur'an where Paradise is described in physical terms.

 

[syo]

So how would you know if a man who claimed to be Jesus was really Jesus? What would he have to do to prove to you that He was Jesus?

(This is mostly for Christians, but anyone can answer it. )

Jesus never came, in the first place. So... he won't come ''back''.

 

[Brian2]

Yeah. Everything is "Spiritual" when it is not possible to reconcile. that's the Bahai strategy.

But I am yet to see any of Bahai scripture that says "Bahaullah and Jesus are in heaven together". Can you please quote which writing of theirs states this from Bab, Bahaullah, Effendi or Abdul Baha?

Thanks in advance.

I cannot give a quote from official Baha'i writings but that is what I have been told by Trailblazer, maybe shy has a quote.

 

[Faithofchristian]

There are two great signs that Jesus Christ left to know whether it's the real Jesus Christ or not..

The first sign is Jesus Christ said himself that not one stone shall be left on top of another that shall not be thrown down..
Matthew 24:1-2,
1--"And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down"

Well there's the temple wall in Jerusalem which the Jews call the Wailing Wall,
Which is still standing for a little over
2000 years and has one purpose..
As the real Lord Jesus Christ comes from the East to the West that wall shall come down..showing that the real Jesus Christ has come...

The other sign is at the coming of the real Jesus Christ everyone shall be changed from this body of flesh and blood to the Spirit, to meet the Lord Jesus Christ in the Spirit..

Now if someone comes, saying I am Christ and your still of flesh and blood that is not the real Jesus Christ....but the AntiChrist Satan, masquerading impersonating the real Jesus Christ..

As disciple Paul written in
1 Corinthians 15:51-52,
51--"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed"

Therefore at the coming of the real Jesus Christ everyone shall be changed from this body of flesh and blood to that of the Spirit....to meet The Lord Jesus Christ in the Spirit..

 

[soulsurvivor]

I don't think it means that every eye will see Him coming back. The dead people who pierced Him have not even been resurrected at that time.

Dead people will definitely not see him coming back.

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus is supposed to command all of those who do not follow him to be slain in front of him.

How do you account for that? Metaphorical?

I'd have to see the verses that say that and the context of the verses.