Who is the first and the last?

[Unveiled Artist]

Because some believers need others to be wrong so that they can be the only ones who are right.

I notice most believers (not just christians) tend to have the right/wrong perspective. Why would a believer use scripture and any type of reference to prove someone else wrong or misunderstood if it weren't about rights and wrongs?

Kind of like using scripture as a sword to defend one's own truth. If I had gold I cherish I wouldn't fling it at people who may call it fools gold. "Pearls among swine?"

That would make sense since nonbelievers do not have religions that differ from other religions.....
and they do not have any God(s) they believe in, so what do they have to disagree about?

When nonbelievers talk about god to believers they tend to point out flaws in believers' arguments from an outside perspective. Believers wouldn't see these flaws because they are see only within their own biases. Argument within one's biases is more heated than talking with someone who doesn't share your view of reality (or speak the same language).

 

[rational experiences]

Magic.

A reaction owns a human imposed statement a beginning and also an end.

In a reaction the end is where burning conversion is activated to own change. A man human science statement about the knowledge of end.

Natural owned the coldest body.

The end changed natural a teaching. Natural was changed in Jesus terms as told. By end. Jesus opened Hades it says exactly.

Jesus was not the heavenly body also told.

Jesus referenced man in the science conditions.

Heavens gases colder than God one earths form also told.

Scientist ignored all pre advised knowledge.

God O stone sealed.
God holy only when the ark radiation is not released. God did release the radiation. Event God no longer is holy no longer supported healthy human life told.

God not Jesus caused event in heavens.

Jesus not his father.

Reason natural man adult father term still lived after attack as end. Jesus an end life attacked causes.

No man is God the total review one status taught.

Taught already.
Not heeded as advice.
Misread by greed and want.

 

[Trailblazer]

When nonbelievers talk about god to believers they tend to point out flaws in believers' arguments from an outside perspective. Believers wouldn't see these flaws because they are see only within their own biases.

I see the nonbeliever perspective and the flaws in the arguments believers make for their God, even when the flaws are with the God I believe in.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I disagree, the entirety of scripture portrays Jesus as God and Savior. If He isn’t God He was not able to live a sinless life. If He didn’t live a sinless life He could not be the Savior. If He was not fully God and fully human He could not be Mediator between God and humanity. Yet, He was the unique Son of God/Son of man.

God Alone is the Savior. Jesus is the only Savior only because He is God.


Tell and bring forth your case; Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has declared this from ancient time? Whohas told it from that time? Have not I, the Lord? And there is no other God besides Me, A just God and a Savior; There is none besides Me.
Isaiah 45:21

It's such a silly argument to still be having at this point.

 

[InChrist]

It's such a silly argument to still be having at this point.

Definitely gets tedious.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

God in the OT,
I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides me. Isaiah 44:6

Jesus in the NT,
I am the first and the last, and the living one; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades. Revelation 1:17-18

The title "the first and the last" is most likely the highest title of God and Jesus uses this title for Himself, for he is God.

Jesus also uses this title in Revelation 22:13,
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.

If he is not God, why does he use that title?

I believe that this is a title of the Lord Jesus Christ - who is the God of Israel.

 

[firedragon]

God in the OT,
I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides me. Isaiah 44:6

Jesus in the NT,
I am the first and the last, and the living one; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades. Revelation 1:17-18

The title "the first and the last" is most likely the highest title of God and Jesus uses this title for Himself, for he is God.

Jesus also uses this title in Revelation 22:13,
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.

If he is not God, why does he use that title?

What you really mean is, after Jesus passed away, an unknown person, wrote a book about a dream, and inside that dream a person who he believes is Jesus says "I am the alpha and the omega".

 

[Redemptionsong]

What purpose would it serve to see Jesus as God, other than to allow Christians to claim that Christianity is the only true religion and that there never was and never will be any other true religion?

Christian faith is not a religion. It's a covenant of faith based on Christ as Saviour. And, yes, it is exclusive, because there is only one Christ, one Lord.

The process of coming to earth to dwell amongst men was necessary. It's a form of justice that the sin brought upon mankind by a man (Adam) should also be taken away by a man (Jesus Christ). The Spirit of God, without measure, dwelt with Jesus during his ministry, when Christ wore the mantle of flesh. After crucifixion, death, and resurrection, the mantle of flesh was gone, to be replaced by a new spiritual body. In heaven, the Son is given dominion and reigns as the Father, as God.

It is to Jesus Christ, as 'My God', that everyone is to 'bow the knee'. It makes no sense to suggest that one God, proclaiming one Truth, would come to earth in many different manifestations, offering contradictory 'truths'.

The real test of Jesus Christ's credentials, as God's Son, lies in his SINLESSNESS. No other man can claim to have been without sin.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

If he is not God, why does he use that title?

Conceit perhaps? Delusion another possibility. Yet another is that he was a very successful con artist. Note, you started with "If he is not God" so these are some of the reasons I am putting out there under that assumption.

 

[Trailblazer]

Conceit perhaps? Delusion another possibility. Yet another is that he was a very successful con artist. Note, you started with "If he is not God" so these are some of the reasons I am putting out there under that assumption.

Or maybe Jesus never said that He was the Alpha and the Omega, and Christians just believe that was Jesus saying that in the Book of Revelation.
Do you really believe that everything written in the New Testament are the words Jesus spoke? That is logically impossible since those writers did not even know Jesus.

 

[Trailblazer]

Christian faith is not a religion. It's a covenant of faith based on Christ as Saviour. And, yes, it is exclusive, because there is only one Christ, one Lord.

Where in the Bible did Jesus ever say He was our Savior and what did Jesus say he saved us from?

The process of coming to earth to dwell amongst men was necessary. It's a form of justice that the sin brought upon mankind by a man (Adam) should also be taken away by a man (Jesus Christ).

Where did Jesus ever say that He saved us from the Original Sin of Adam and Eve?

The Spirit of God, without measure, dwelt with Jesus during his ministry, when Christ wore the mantle of flesh. After crucifixion, death, and resurrection, the mantle of flesh was gone, to be replaced by a new spiritual body. In heaven, the Son is given dominion and reigns as the Father, as God.

I fully agree that the Spirit of God, without measure, dwelt with Jesus during his ministry, when Christ wore the mantle of flesh and that after crucifixion and death the mantle of flesh was gone, to be replaced by a new spiritual body In heaven, but I do not believe that the physical body of Jesus ever rise from the dead. That would have been completely superfluous to his mission on earth and as such it would have served no purpose. Jesus came to earth to bear witness unto the truth about God....

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Jesus sacrificed His life so we would have eternal life, not as an a atonement for Original Sin of Adam and Eve. Jesus, by His spiritual nature born of the bounty of the Holy Spirit, freed us from our physical nature which was inherited from Adam.

Question.—In verse 22 of chapter 15 of 1 Corinthians it is written: “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” What is the meaning of these words?

Answer.—Know that there are two natures in man: the physical nature and the spiritual nature. The physical nature is inherited from Adam, and the spiritual nature is inherited from the Reality of the Word of God, which is the spirituality of Christ. The physical nature is born of Adam, but the spiritual nature is born from the bounty of the Holy Spirit. The first is the source of all imperfection; the second is the source of all perfection.

The Christ sacrificed Himself so that men might be freed from the imperfections of the physical nature and might become possessed of the virtues of the spiritual nature. This spiritual nature, which came into existence through the bounty of the Divine Reality, is the union of all perfections and appears through the breath of the Holy Spirit. It is the divine perfections; it is light, spirituality, guidance, exaltation, high aspiration, justice, love, grace, kindness to all, philanthropy, the essence of life. It is the reflection of the splendor of the Sun of Reality…..

The second meaning of sacrifice is this: Christ was like a seed, and this seed sacrificed its own form so that the tree might grow and develop. Although the form of the seed was destroyed, its reality became apparent in perfect majesty and beauty in the form of a tree. Some Answered Questions, p. 118, 121

Read more: 29: EXPLANATION OF VERSE TWENTY-TWO, CHAPTER FIFTEEN, OF THE FIRST EPISTLE OF ST. PAUL TO THE CORINTHIANS

It is to Jesus Christ, as 'My God', that everyone is to 'bow the knee'. It makes no sense to suggest that one God, proclaiming one Truth, would come to earth in many different manifestations, offering contradictory 'truths'.

No, Jesus did not want or demand worship, Jesus said to worship only God. Notice how in this verse Jesus differentiated Himself from God, and that means Jesus could not have been God.

Matthew 4:10 Jesus said to him, 'Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."

It makes no sense to suggest that one God, proclaiming one Truth, would come to earth only once and for all time, and only to one Manifestation, Jesus Christ. Moreover, the truths are not contradictory, they are successive, each building upon the previous truth. The only reason they appear contradictory is because man misinterpreted and changed the original scriptures.

The real test of Jesus Christ's credentials, as God's Son, lies in his SINLESSNESS. No other man can claim to have been without sin.

All the Manifestations of God were without sin, from God's perspective of what is a sin.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Or maybe Jesus never said that He was the Alpha and the Omega, and Christians just believe that was Jesus saying that in the Book of Revelation.
Do you really believe that everything written in the New Testament are the words Jesus spoke? That is logically impossible since those writers did not even know Jesus.

Definitely one of the possibilities, yes.

 

[rational experiences]

O stone planet ours. Earth. God's are planets said science each its owned body entity. In the universe the gods.

Earth a one of creator from its body released it spirit gas to create heavens. God the creator by science thesis. Earth a one of only body.

God our science beginning and end.

God said science owned life not the sun.

The sun big bang blasted earth converted attacked God as the hell body. The fallen mass of God rebelling. Were suns against form God existing. Taught. Science.

A science status.

Sun mass owns huge nuclear orbitals. Earth mass miniscule orbitals.

Recorded star memories are fixed as images in star gases communicate memory of earths attack. How our conscious self knew. Images can be seen about earth held recorded in the star gases.

The universe told us. Real. Like a formatted tv screen in space. Transmit relay ancient earth history back to our psyche. Our advice memory universal.

Building sun orbital is evil claiming black burning hole emptiness as first circle.

Would own no space gas burning as a UFO sun orbital re forming joining back its ancient firm life's destroyer body.

God warning bible human destroyer described as an everyday human. Mind however is not.

It would equal in joining one huge atmospheric burning held hole with no orbital. As gases earths would no longer cool it to see it's image.

Ice instantly melts sucked up into sky as old activation changed. Now just tornadoes proven history did occur. The suck up into heavens.

Instant life death animals newly formed mammoth found dead with food in mouth stripped off hair radiation balding cause.

Now elephants. Hair gone radiation event removed changed DNA.

Memories why.

After ice melts whilst the universe is pulling into opened sucking deep state colder space the event stops. The atmosphere SHUTS. Instant snap freeze caused again. Water only involved no trace.

Science claiming first law sun orbital building big bang blast.

Known. Idealises. Studied. Remembered.

Reason prophetic God earth warning stated categorically in science only God is any beginning or end.

Never include the sun.

Reason earth gases sucking in vacuum cooled were still alight. Stopped burning became clear.

God's own gas history was owner burning itself. God owned light also naturally. Gods orbital nothing like the sun's.

Song said ....we didn't start the fire it was always burning since the world was turning status man advice.

Science says copy by thesis did not own the start of reactions in space.

 

[rational experiences]

Saviour reasoning by human statement in human self presence on earth.

Space womb as a mother theme holy as it cools burning.

Asteroid stone a God body wandering....as stone heated puts back cold gas into irradiated space.

Ice newly born formed on gods body earth as it saved water mass by cooling burning gases.

Ice saviour never owned in sciences.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Where in the Bible did Jesus ever say He was our Savior and what did Jesus say he saved us from?

Where did Jesus ever say that He saved us from the Original Sin of Adam and Eve?

I fully agree that the Spirit of God, without measure, dwelt with Jesus during his ministry, when Christ wore the mantle of flesh and that after crucifixion and death the mantle of flesh was gone, to be replaced by a new spiritual body In heaven, but I do not believe that the physical body of Jesus ever rise from the dead. That would have been completely superfluous to his mission on earth and as such it would have served no purpose. Jesus came to earth to bear witness unto the truth about God....

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Jesus sacrificed His life so we would have eternal life, not as an a atonement for Original Sin of Adam and Eve. Jesus, by His spiritual nature born of the bounty of the Holy Spirit, freed us from our physical nature which was inherited from Adam.

Question.—In verse 22 of chapter 15 of 1 Corinthians it is written: “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” What is the meaning of these words?

Answer.—Know that there are two natures in man: the physical nature and the spiritual nature. The physical nature is inherited from Adam, and the spiritual nature is inherited from the Reality of the Word of God, which is the spirituality of Christ. The physical nature is born of Adam, but the spiritual nature is born from the bounty of the Holy Spirit. The first is the source of all imperfection; the second is the source of all perfection.

The Christ sacrificed Himself so that men might be freed from the imperfections of the physical nature and might become possessed of the virtues of the spiritual nature. This spiritual nature, which came into existence through the bounty of the Divine Reality, is the union of all perfections and appears through the breath of the Holy Spirit. It is the divine perfections; it is light, spirituality, guidance, exaltation, high aspiration, justice, love, grace, kindness to all, philanthropy, the essence of life. It is the reflection of the splendor of the Sun of Reality…..

The second meaning of sacrifice is this: Christ was like a seed, and this seed sacrificed its own form so that the tree might grow and develop. Although the form of the seed was destroyed, its reality became apparent in perfect majesty and beauty in the form of a tree. Some Answered Questions, p. 118, 121

Read more: 29: EXPLANATION OF VERSE TWENTY-TWO, CHAPTER FIFTEEN, OF THE FIRST EPISTLE OF ST. PAUL TO THE CORINTHIANS

No, Jesus did not want or demand worship, Jesus said to worship only God. Notice how in this verse Jesus differentiated Himself from God, and that means Jesus could not have been God.

Matthew 4:10 Jesus said to him, 'Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."

It makes no sense to suggest that one God, proclaiming one Truth, would come to earth only once and for all time, and only to one Manifestation, Jesus Christ. Moreover, the truths are not contradictory, they are successive, each building upon the previous truth. The only reason they appear contradictory is because man misinterpreted and changed the original scriptures.

All the Manifestations of God were without sin, from God's perspective of what is a sin.

There are a number of places in scripture where Jesus is called Saviour.

Isaiah 43:3. ' for I am the Holy One of Israel, thy saviour'.

This is confirmed in Mark 1:24, when a man with an unclean spirit says, 'I know thee who thou art, the holy One of God'. In Acts 3:14, Jesus is again referred to as 'the holy One and the Just'.

In Luke 2:11, the angel announces 'For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.'

John 4:42. 'And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.'

Although Jesus did not go about proclaiming himself as Saviour, it is clear that angels and demons all recognised him as Saviour, and people listening to him recognised him as the Messiah, the one who would save his people.

1 John 4:14.'And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.'

 

[Redemptionsong]

Where did Jesus ever say that He saved us from the Original Sin of Adam and Eve?

Romans 6:23. 'For the wages of sin is death;'.

1 Corinthians 15:22. 'For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.'

It's a plain truth if you don't try to explain it away!

 

[Redemptionsong]

Saviour reasoning by human statement in human self presence on earth.

Space womb as a mother theme holy as it cools burning.

Asteroid stone a God body wandering....as stone heated puts back cold gas into irradiated space.

Ice newly born formed on gods body earth as it saved water mass by cooling burning gases.

Ice saviour never owned in sciences.

How are you getting on, rational experiences? Do you believe Jesus Christ is the Holy One of God?

 

[Redemptionsong]

No, Jesus did not want or demand worship, Jesus said to worship only God. Notice how in this verse Jesus differentiated Himself from God, and that means Jesus could not have been God.

The MAN Jesus did not want or demand worship, but not all people saw Jesus as only a man. Peter, for example, saw him as Christ, and Jesus said, 'for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.'

Isaiah 45:22-25, states that 'unto me [the LORD] every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.'

How can the LORD not be Jesus Christ when Philippians 2:10,11 says, 'That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.'?

 

[Redemptionsong]

It makes no sense to suggest that one God, proclaiming one Truth, would come to earth only once and for all time, and only to one Manifestation, Jesus Christ. Moreover, the truths are not contradictory, they are successive, each building upon the previous truth. The only reason they appear contradictory is because man misinterpreted and changed the original scriptures.

The scriptures do not agree with your assessment.

In Ephesians it stresses the importance of ONE God.
Ephesians 4:4-6. 'There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.' [Speaking to the Church]

 

[rational experiences]

How are you getting on, rational experiences? Do you believe Jesus Christ is the Holy One of God?

No.

Mass is the holy one of God. Story about a human baby to man is a taught experience. Title Jesus. Themed.

A human baby is born. A human becomes an adult. Lives and died.

Jesus statement man died sacrificed.

Sacrifice of life is not holy.

Life survival is holy.

Mass conditions always supported the holy life.

I cry when I think of the many humans who die suffering. Not idolise it.

God is a planet who gave birth to its own heavens.

Humans using consciousness first use self explanations to infer comparative reasoning why God is its own entity of body and spirit as earth.

Our parents were pre owned spirits in the eternal. God changed empty space made contact by heavens with the body it had left from. Spirit was forced to merge into atmosphere from the eternal a second time.

We always said because of gods presence.

Reasoning suggests its true as water oxygen and biomes already existed and we inherited gods forms as a spirit higher self.

How we are acutely conscious of everything.

If you asked do you believe in the sacrifice. Yes. But not how it is inferred.