Why are they ignoring the persecution of Christians?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes - of course - but White straight Christians have to endure constant stupid questions from ignorant people who assume that they are racist and bigoted - like the one you just asked me.

That's its own kind of Hell.

Which denomination are you?

If you actually belong to a tolerant, welcoming denomination - the MCC or the United Church, for instance - I have sympathy for you.

If you're upset that people are associating you with awful things you support through your tithes and membership, well... that's on you.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

And slavery. Liberals were forced into a civil war to end the tradition of slavery by conservative Christians.

I think you have that backward.

 

[F1fan]

I think you have that backward.

How so?

 

[F1fan]

Can you give a few examples of what you mean by "ignorance of many Americans I've encountered there", and how "People in Europe have a vastly better understanding of the planet than many Americans"?

Americans not having a basic understanding of science.
Americans not being able to pinpoint where a majority of states are in the USA.
Americans being ignorant of the basic tenets of various world religions.
Americans not having a very good working knowledge of history.
Americans not being exposed to the cultural norms of other nations.
Europeans do have an advantage of encountering more people from other nations so they speak multiple languages, understand cultural traditions, have more awareness of their history as part of a huge continent, etc.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

How so?

Wait - I think I read it wrong. I thought you meant that conservative Christians were the ones going to war to end slavery.

Re-reading that, I don't think that's what you meant.

 

[nPeace]

Americans not having a basic understanding of science.
Americans not being able to pinpoint where a majority of states are in the USA.
Americans being ignorant of the basic tenets of various world religions.
Americans not having a very good working knowledge of history.
Americans not being exposed to the cultural norms of other nations.
Europeans do have an advantage of encountering more people from other nations so they speak multiple languages, understand cultural traditions, have more awareness of their history as part of a huge continent, etc.

This is why I find we are not able to converse, because you tend to put everyone and everything in a box, and then when someone mentions something in general, you conveniently separate it.
Because you know of some people doing or saying something, does not mean that's everyone.
It's as though you would go to India, or some other land, and see poor people, and say "Label" are poor.

I mentioned people trying to stamp out religion, and instead of sticking to stamping out religion, you bring in religious conflict, as though that's aimed at stamping out religion.
It's difficult to have a conversation with someone who seems to look at things only from their perspective - their box.

Putting people in a box, blinds us to reality, imo.
Unless you have statistical data, that verifies your conclusion, it's just looking at things from your eyes. isn't it?

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Which denomination are you?

If you actually belong to a tolerant, welcoming denomination - the MCC or the United Church, for instance - I have sympathy for you.

If you're upset that people are associating you with awful things you support through your tithes and membership, well... that's on you.

That's not a very tolerant stance - is it?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That's not a very tolerant stance - is it?

What's intolerant about the idea that people's actions are a reflection of their character?

 

[McBell]

What's intolerant about the idea that people's actions are a reflection of their character?

It gets them out of addressing the actual point of the post they replied to...

 

[Fallen Prophet]

What's intolerant about the idea that people's actions are a reflection of their character?

You are judging an entire group of people based on what religion they are.

Do you do that with all people of a certain race, gender and sexual orientation too?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

You are judging an entire group of people based on what religion they are.

Do you do that with all people of a certain race, gender and sexual orientation too?

A person's race, gender, sexual orientation tells me nothing about their character or ethics. A person subscribing to a religion that outlines other people should be eternally tormented for those things does.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You are judging an entire group of people based on what religion they are.

No, I'm really not. I'm judging people based on their actions.

You never did say which denomination you are, BTW.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I didn't read that in the OP.

It is my understanding that the OP was indeed claiming that Christians are the most persecuted group in the world - and considering how many Christians there are in the world and how spread the religion is - that may be true - I cannot confirm or deny it.

However - the OP was not "downplaying" the plight of other persecuted groups - only that no one cares about the plight of Christians.

The OP said,

"It is really a phenomenon, when Jews are in danger, then there is great noise in Europe and in the USA, but the persecution of Christians is ignored. Even the situation of Muslims in China has more attention; I wonder if Europe and the USA are still really Christian."

Never once did the OP "downplay" the persecutions had by Jews and Muslims. The OP claimed that when these groups are victims - there is a "great noise" and "attention" generated on their behalf.

Not so about the persecution of Christians.

If we are talking about sheer number of people from a demographic being persecuted then the demographic is women. If we are taking about demographics which face the most legislative pressure for what they are...well then we are still talking about women, followed by LGBT.
If it's a demographic that faces the most severe punishment for being part of a demographic most regularly, then it's LGBT.

My point is there's no persecution Christians experience that other demographics don't also experience, but Christians feel like they should be higher prioritized on the pity parade. Even though a lot of persecution experienced by these other demographics comes directly at the hands of Christians.

Even trying to assert that Christians are the most oppressed demographic downplays the persecution of these other groups.

Maybe they should pull the beams out of their eyes before trying to remove the specks from others, eh?

I don't understand the question.

Which powerful liberal elites aren't Christian?

 

[Fallen Prophet]

A person's race, gender, sexual orientation tells me nothing about their character or ethics. A person subscribing to a religion that outlines other people should be eternally tormented for those things does.

How so?

Do you believe that people choose a religion simply based on what it claims will happen to the unfaithful/unrepentant/disobedient - or rather what it claims will happen to the faithful/repentant/obedient?

I'm just saying - I don't think there are many Christians who join saying, "This is the religion for me because it condemns homosexuality!" - but rather that faith leads to salvation.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

No, I'm really not. I'm judging people based on their actions.

You never did say which denomination you are, BTW.

Aw - I can see the stones in your hands - waiting to see if I answer "correctly" or not.

How tolerant of you.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Liberals today tend to reject traditions - like religious observance.

So did Jesus

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

You never did say which denomination you are, BTW.

Given the slavery denial of US history, maybe Southern Baptist?

 

[Fallen Prophet]

If we are talking about sheer number of people from a demographic being persecuted then the demographic is women.

Aw yes - is this the issue of "mansplaining", "manspreading" or office buildings being too cold?

You see? That would be someone "downplaying" the plight of others - good thing I mentioned that only in joking just to prove a point.

On the other hand - if I were to mention that men also have issues they deal with - including persecution - but those issues are never given the time of day by the liberal "elites" that wouldn't be "downplaying" the plight of women.

No group or demographic is immune to persecution.

And women being persecuted doesn't negate Christians being persecuted - and a Christian woman being persecuted is a "double whammy!" - ain't it?

Or does the fact that she is Christian mean we shouldn't recognize her?

If we are taking about demographics which face the most legislative pressure for what they are...well then we are still talking about women, followed by LGBT.

I agree if you are talking about Sharia Law and some third world countries.

Not so much in the West.

If it's a demographic that faces the most severe punishment for being part of a demographic most regularly, then it's LGBT.

Again - I'm on board if you're talking about Sharia and various third world countries.

My point is there's no persecution Christians experience that other demographics don't also experience, but Christians feel like they should be higher prioritized on the pity parade.

Neither I or the OP have said this.

We never claimed that Christians have "special" persecution heaped on them or that they should be prioritized over others.

That is the policy of the liberal elite. They choose which groups get special consideration and priority.

Even though a lot of persecution experienced by these other demographics comes directly at the hands of Christians.

Aw - I get it.

So if a Black guy punches me - I should blame all Black guys for it. Same goes for a homosexual - right?

I mean - you blame all Christians - claiming that their persecutions should not be recognized because of the actions of some.

Makes sense, Ms. Tolerance. No bigotry there.

Even trying to assert that Christians are the most oppressed demographic downplays the persecution of these other groups.

Not at all actually - if the numbers are shown.

They haven't been shown in this thread that I have seen and I am not about to try and figure it out.

But if the stats prove that more Christians are persecuted than any other group - then it wouldn't downplay the persecution of other groups.

I mean - you yourself don't even believe that because at the start of this post you claimed that women were the more persecuted group.

Are you therefore "downplaying" the persecution of all other groups by making that claim?

They call that you being "hoisted on your own petard".

Maybe they should pull the beams out of their eyes before trying to remove the specks from others, eh?

Wanting to receive the same recognition of other persecuted groups is not a "beam pulling" situation.

Which powerful liberal elites aren't Christian?

You were the one who made the claim that "most" liberal elites are Christian - and I said I don't believe you.

Therefore - the burden of proof is on you to prove your claim - not me.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Aw yes - is this the issue of "mansplaining", "manspreading" or office buildings being too cold?

You see? That would be someone "downplaying" the plight of others - good thing I mentioned that only in joking just to prove a point.

On the other hand - if I were to mention that men also have issues they deal with - including persecution - but those issues are never given the time of day by the liberal "elites" that wouldn't be "downplaying" the plight of women.

No group or demographic is immune to persecution.

And women being persecuted doesn't negate Christians being persecuted - and a Christian woman being persecuted is a "double whammy!" - ain't it?

Or does the fact that she is Christian mean we shouldn't recognize her?

I agree if you are talking about Sharia Law and some third world countries.

Not so much in the West.

Again - I'm on board if you're talking about Sharia and various third world countries.

Neither I or the OP have said this.

We never claimed that Christians have "special" persecution heaped on them or that they should be prioritized over others.

That is the policy of the liberal elite. They choose which groups get special consideration and priority.

Aw - I get it.

So if a Black guy punches me - I should blame all Black guys for it. Same goes for a homosexual - right?

I mean - you blame all Christians - claiming that their persecutions should not be recognized because of the actions of some.

Makes sense, Ms. Tolerance. No bigotry there.

Not at all actually - if the numbers are shown.

They haven't been shown in this thread that I have seen and I am not about to try and figure it out.

But if the stats prove that more Christians are persecuted than any other group - then it wouldn't downplay the persecution of other groups.

I mean - you yourself don't even believe that because at the start of this post you claimed that women were the more persecuted group.

Are you therefore "downplaying" the persecution of all other groups by making that claim?

They call that you being "hoisted on your own petard".

Wanting to receive the same recognition of other persecuted groups is not a "beam pulling" situation.

You were the one who made the claim that "most" liberal elites are Christian - and I said I don't believe you.

Therefore - the burden of proof is on you to prove your claim - not me.

I'd love to see a demonstration of the stats that Christians are the most oppressed, which is also what the OP claimed. You're right that I don't believe it, because it's not been demonstrated.

Nobody deserves to be oppressed but Christians themselves often don't recognize the oppression of others who are part of their 'out' groups. And they have significantly more power than those they have traditionally, and still to this day, oppress. And it's not like these other minority groups are just oppressed in Sharia Law countries. The Uganda 'Kill Gays' bill was of Christian make, after all. And there are Christian dominated countries where discussing LGBT issues or being an uncloseted person is illegal (see also countries such as Barbados). As well as things like enforcement of gender roles for women, discounting things like marital rape, etc etc.

Considering you didn't even define what the 'liberal elite' is, it's hard to provide much examples. Are we talking about political liberals in power? Because people like Obama, Biden, the Clintons are all Christian (at least as Christian as Trump was.)
Are we talking about just general wealthy liberals? Because people like Bill Gates is a Christian, as well as most of the wealthiest individuals alive.

 

[Alex22]

I'm sorry about that, but even so, that's not evidence of persecution. Bigotry, yes. People being dicks, yes.

I've lived there and you haven't, I know what I'm talking about. That is just one example.