• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Higher and lower self.

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
From your understanding, or from the scripture you follow and believe in.

What is the difference in Higher and Lower self?
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
The higher self is the Atman, that which one is in one's true nature. It is the same as Brahman, existence/consciousness/bliss; satcitananda. Pure awareness; the observer, the "I" which cannot be observed.

The lower self is the jiva, the gross and subtle bodies, the body and mind. It is the "I" most people identify with in transactional reality.

The scripture related to the states of being and the details of what is Atman, Brahman, and jiva is the Mandukya Upanishad.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
The higher self is the Atman, that which one is in one's true nature. It is the same as Brahman, existence/consciousness/bliss; satcitananda. Pure awareness; the observer, the "I" which cannot be observed.

The lower self is the jiva, the gross and subtle bodies, the body and mind. It is the "I" most people identify with in transactional reality.

The scripture related to the states of being and the details of what is Atman, Brahman, and Jiva is the Mandukya Upanishad.
What you describe is very similar to what Sufism teaches :)
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
From your understanding, or from the scripture you follow and believe in.

What is the difference in Higher and Lower self?

I had to look it up. Higher self is spiritual and lower self is carnal.

The higher and lower throws it off for me. God/Man, High/Low, body/spirit, and those comparisons I avoid. It makes one seem bad and the other good. I don't see the body and mind are bad because we make mistakes and our body dies. So, I guess higher and lower would be less accurate to me.

Maybe more interconnected would be better. If I'm expressing my spiritual self, say, in meditation breathing, physically siting, and maybe a writing ritual would be the expression of the carnal self and the actual experience the expression of the spiritual self. I'd liken that spirit is energy or vitality within. Getting in touch with that vitality or energy would be the expression of the higher self. Showing that expression outwardly is the expression of the carnal self. The body is the vehicle of expression.

Another analogy that just came to mind is nature. The trees and paths etc are the carnal self-they die, reincarnate, and uproot again. It's the material. The experience and feeling the pain or awe from nature is experienced by the spiritual self-(the emotions, feeling in the chest, being an expression of the spiritual self). When the physical self dies (when they cut down the trees), the soul or person looses a piece of them that is nature (no man vs. nature). The physical and spiritual are interconnected. So, when you loose a loved one, it's similar just as the natural world. I guess, since we're all energy, there's no separation in experience. Weird I got this inner insight from seeing them cut down the trees I mentioned in the other thread.

I wonder if that is what they call Oneness, though. Cohesion with the carnal and spiritual self. I don't know.

But it sounds commonly used to refer to the ego vs. divinity.

I thought this was interesting
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I had to look it up. Higher self is spiritual and lower self is carnal.

The higher and lower throws it off for me. God/Man, High/Low, body/spirit, and those comparisons I avoid. It makes one seem bad and the other good. I don't see the body and mind are bad because we make mistakes and our body dies. So, I guess higher and lower would be less accurate to me.

Maybe more interconnected would be better. If I'm expressing my spiritual self, say, in meditation breathing, physically siting, and maybe a writing ritual would be the expression of the carnal self and the actual experience the expression of the spiritual self. I'd liken that spirit is energy or vitality within. Getting in touch with that vitality or energy would be the expression of the higher self. Showing that expression outwardly is the expression of the carnal self. The body is the vehicle of expression.

Another analogy that just came to mind is nature. The trees and paths etc are the carnal self-they die, reincarnate, and uproot again. It's the material. The experience and feeling the pain or awe from nature is experienced by the spiritual self-(the emotions, feeling in the chest, being an expression of the spiritual self). When the physical self dies (when they cut down the trees), the soul or person looses a piece of them that is nature (no man vs. nature). The physical and spiritual are interconnected. So, when you loose a loved one, it's similar just as the natural world. I guess, since we're all energy, there's no separation in experience. Weird I got this inner insight from seeing them cut down the trees I mentioned in the other thread.

I wonder if that is what they call Oneness, though. Cohesion with the carnal and spiritual self. I don't know.

But it sounds commonly used to refer to the ego vs. divinity.

I thought this was interesting
Thank you for your reply @Unveiled Artist

What you speak would be one way of understanding oneness i think :)
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
In the link i give i believe it explain very well about higher and lower self. (The text is not directly from the sufi order i belong to, but the wisdom is there)

Transforming the self: the essence of Sufism by Robert Frager (katinkahesselink.net)

While reading this, now I kinda figure what you mean with higher and lower self. I agree there is a tug of war to be who we want to be or be who we are (depending on the religious views) with ego and such. As for seeing it bad/good, I'd say instead the lower self are lessons for the higher self to learn from. So, they are interconnected as they bounce off each other. When the lower self is gone, or dies, since I don't believe in an separate soul, I wouldn't know how it could connect with god (or divine vitality or so have you). Maybe it's more we "are" this vitality or act. We Are god.

I don't know. Throwing out ideas.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
While reading this, now I kinda figure what you mean with higher and lower self. I agree there is a tug of war to be who we want to be or be who we are (depending on the religious views) with ego and such. As for seeing it bad/good, I'd say instead the lower self are lessons for the higher self to learn from. So, they are interconnected as they bounce off each other. When the lower self is gone, or dies, since I don't believe in an separate soul, I wouldn't know how it could connect with god (or divine vitality or so have you). Maybe it's more we "are" this vitality or act. We Are god.

I don't know. Throwing out ideas.
Sound like you picked up on the essense of the text in the link :)
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
The higher self is the Atman, that which one is in one's true nature. It is the same as Brahman, existence/consciousness/bliss; satcitananda. Pure awareness; the observer, the "I" which cannot be observed.
Jehova Witness (observer) seems in this context a well chosen name
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Sound like you picked up on the essense of the text in the link :)

Do you think lower self would refer to material or only ego and the like?

I know many say "that of man" buy because everything is temporary (the forms we see rather than material) I'd wonder if our flesh is considered lower not just the ego controlling it.
 
Last edited:

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Do you think lower self would refer to material only ego and the like?

I know many say "that of man" buy because everything is temporary (the forms we see rather than material) I'd wonder if our flesh is considered lower not just the ego controlling it.
In my understanding lower self refere to the ego and the human experiance and materializes in the physical realm. Higher self is spiritual and connection with God. But in the same time both lower and higher self is connected :confused: That is a part i do ponder about.
 
Last edited:

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
In my understanding lower self refere to the ego and the human experiance and materializes in the physical realm. Higher self is spiritual and connection with God. But in the same time both lower and higher self is connected :confused: That is a part i do ponder about.

Materializes in the physical realm? (Thinking of Star Trek. No pun.)

What do you mean by that?
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Materializes in the physical realm? (Thinking of Star Trek. No pun.)

What do you mean by that?
That everything we see in this world (physically) is of the lower self. But the higher self that also exist in this world is hidden from our vision until we let go of ego/lower self.

:confused: my brain hurts from thinking about this :oops:
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
You need to make yourself some cliff notes.
I am about to start writing down a lot of this things yes. Because what i do speak of is my own understanding of the topic. And to realise more and maybe deeper understanding, i would have to be able to go back to see what i understood in the past.
 
Top