Does your belief / religion ect offer a better deal ?

[Dogknox20]

Rom 8
38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the LOVE of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

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Barry Johnson I hope you are well... Stinking Chinese Flu!!!!
Yes scriptures don't lie, because God is perfect he cannot lie! Jesus loves us sooooo very much he took our place in death, in perfect love he died for us! What we have to do now is get ourselves IMMERSED into Jesus' risen body! Jesus loves us so much he gives us his all... To love is =To give of yourself for another love is actions of the heart!
Barry Johnson God does everything perfectly... He gives us his body his soul and his divinity!
The Eucharist is not the dead flesh of Christ. It is his living and glorified body, Jesus is present in his human nature; Jesus is God he is present in his divinity. Complete perfect love he give us his all in a way that only God can! We consume his flesh! Jesus gives us his flesh and blood we consume Jesus he is in me I remain in his body!

God is perfect love as Romans 8 tells us.... Now we must choose to love because "only Love is found in heaven".. It's our choice to love or not to love! NO ONE....
Barry Johnson no one can snatch us from God' hand BUT scripture does not say God himself cannot take you out of his own hand and toss you into a fire! John's baptism washed away sin! The Baptism of the Bride washes away sin and immerses us into the risen body of the Lord! The baptism of the Church gives us the Holy Spirit (fire) and washes sins away!

 

[Subduction Zone]

.
Subduction Zone I hope all is well with you... Good question....
The perfect man "Adam" made a free will choice... He choose to sin! NOW...
Subduction Zone now God' perfect creation was corrupted... Man corrupted what God made perfect.. God does all things perfectly! All of Adams decedents (us) are born corrupted because you can't create perfection from corrupted material! All men have a leaning towards sin because all men are not perfect!
Jesus is the second perfect man... Only God is perfect, God took the form of man to correct the error of Adam! NOW....
Subduction Zone now all peoples immersed into the risen resurrected body of Jesus will rise to new life!

Subduction Zone God made man in his image...God is LOVE!
Man was given the capability to LOVE! Cows, chicken, snails, frogs etc cannot love only MAN was made in God' image! BUT....
Subduction Zone but to love you need freewill! YES... God could have given Adam a pill to make him love BUT...
Subduction Zone but then Adams love would not be true love! Adam needed the freedom to chose; Adam made a choice freely! You also have a choice... Love your children? Decide to reject your wife, divorce her!? Love is a CHOICE! The Sheep freely CHOOSE to help the needy the Goats freely made the choice not too!
Sheep... 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

Goats..
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

Sheep have Faith + Love!
Goats have Faith Alone!

You forgot your own myth. In Genesis Adam lacked the knowledge of right and wrong.

 

[Dogknox20]

You forgot your own myth. In Genesis Adam lacked the knowledge of right and wrong.

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Subduction Zone good to hear from you again.. NOPE not a myth! Until he ate he did not know it was wrong to be naked! He & Eve ate of the forbidden tree then they understood! Babies cannot sin they don't know right from wrong! It is knowledge of what is not right that sin can happens. God warned them... "If you eat you will die"...
Subduction Zone The wages of sin is death; understanding what your actions do right/wrong convicts each of us!

Love is actions of the heart.... Adam had a choice to be obedient or to disobey! Adam did not love God proven by his disobedience!
1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
1 John 5:3
In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

 

[Subduction Zone]

.
Subduction Zone good to hear from you again.. NOPE not a myth! Until he ate he did not know it was wrong to be naked! He & Eve ate of the forbidden tree then they understood! Babies cannot sin they don't know right from wrong! It is knowledge of what is not right that sin can happens. God warned them... "If you eat you will die"...
Subduction Zone The wages of sin is death; understanding what your actions do right/wrong convicts each of us!

Love is actions of the heart.... Adam had a choice to be obedient or to disobey! Adam did not love God proven by his disobedience!
1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
1 John 5:3
In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

No, we know that it is a myth. There never were only two people. If you want to discuss why I am more than happy to do so.

And I see that you just admitted that God screwed up in your myth. You probably missed where you did that. You also pointed out how God lied to Adam. This is not going well for you.

 

[Dogknox20]

No, we know that it is a myth. There never were only two people. If you want to discuss why I am more than happy to do so.
And I see that you just admitted that God screwed up in your myth. You probably missed where you did that. You also pointed out how God lied to Adam. This is not going well for you.

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Subduction Zone Lots of accusations and innuendo no proof!?
Geneses is not historical fact.. It is NOT a book on archeology! It is a story to help teach the Jews about God and sin! THINK: They could not read... Every man KNOWS beyond all doubt "Snakes are bad news" they all KNOW" it is the responsibility of the MAN to protect the family"! They all could understand Adam and the devil portrayed as a cunning snake!

LOOK.... All Jews know the Adam & Eve story, they all know Satan is portrayed as a Snake!
Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?

Subduction Zone John just called the Pharisees and Sadducees children of Satan!

 

[John1.12]

I don't know what you're asking.

I don't know if this is what you're looking for but:
Matthew 22[36-40]36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”

37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

That's not the' Gospel' .

 

[John1.12]

.
Believing IN Jesus is; believing the words of Jesus!
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’
38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

The Good News is the Gospels! The words of Jesus save they are "Good News"! AS Jesus told Nicodemus... "God loved the world that whoever believes the Words of "The Word" will have eternal life!
John 3:16 ..... that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

John 3:31 The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all.
32 He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony.
33 Whoever has accepted it has certified that God is truthful.
34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.

John 5:37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,
38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent.

.
Believing IN Jesus is; believing the words of Jesus!
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’
38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

The Good News is the Gospels! The words of Jesus save they are "Good News"! AS Jesus told Nicodemus... "God loved the world that whoever believes the Words of "The Word" will have eternal life!
John 3:16 ..... that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

John 3:31 The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all.
32 He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony.
33 Whoever has accepted it has certified that God is truthful.
34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.

John 5:37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,
38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent.

Have you come across 1 cor 15 . 1-4 ?

 

[John1.12]

.
Barry Johnson I hope you are well... Stinking Chinese Flu!!!!
Yes scriptures don't lie, because God is perfect he cannot lie! Jesus loves us sooooo very much he took our place in death, in perfect love he died for us! What we have to do now is get ourselves IMMERSED into Jesus' risen body! Jesus loves us so much he gives us his all... To love is =To give of yourself for another love is actions of the heart!
Barry Johnson God does everything perfectly... He gives us his body his soul and his divinity!
The Eucharist is not the dead flesh of Christ. It is his living and glorified body, Jesus is present in his human nature; Jesus is God he is present in his divinity. Complete perfect love he give us his all in a way that only God can! We consume his flesh! Jesus gives us his flesh and blood we consume Jesus he is in me I remain in his body!

God is perfect love as Romans 8 tells us.... Now we must choose to love because "only Love is found in heaven".. It's our choice to love or not to love! NO ONE....
Barry Johnson no one can snatch us from God' hand BUT scripture does not say God himself cannot take you out of his own hand and toss you into a fire! John's baptism washed away sin! The Baptism of the Bride washes away sin and immerses us into the risen body of the Lord! The baptism of the Church gives us the Holy Spirit (fire) and washes sins away!

Have you read Romans 10.9-15 ?

 

[metis]

That's not the' Gospel' .

It's the requirement for the Gospel, and Matthew 25's Parable of the Sheep & Goats clarifies it as does Jesus' Sermon On the Mount.

The point is that the overall Gospel really is quite simple, but it's also a challenge to follow at times.


BTW, if you are going to use verses for your position, consider quoting all or even part of it. And you might also make the point you're trying to make as well in order to avoid confusion and also save time.

 

[GardenLady]

GardenLady It is a pleasure to meet you!
I reply: You say "Former Catholic"? My question is; why would you give up a personal relationship with Jesus!?
GardenLady You can't get anymore personal with Jesus then "Consuming him"! Jesus is IN Me because I eat his living flesh & I drink his life giving blood! I am in his Holy Universal Body! I am in him, he is in me!

Dogknox20, I respect your view, but disagree. I have not given up a relationship with Jesus, only with the Roman Catholic church. I am a active parishioner and communicant in a "small c" catholic denomination. Similar liturgy, same lectionary, and believe in the Real Presence in communion. I do no accept the territorial RC view that the Roman Catholic church is the "one true church" (as I was taught in my growing-up years and still hear from uber-Catholics) and believe the RC church has significant doctrinal and administrative problems. Nor do I believe the RC church is the only one with valid orders or the only one with valid communion. So let us respect one another and agree to disagree.

 

[Dogknox20]

Have you come across 1 cor 15 . 1-4 ?

.
Barry Johnson Yes that is Gospel... 1 cor 15... Died, buried and resurrected! Your point is what? That the words of Jesus mean nothing, the words of Paul are the answer; Is this it??
Words of Jesus... "My flesh is real food" & "Unless you eat my flesh you have no life in you"! These are gospel .. John 6!
Notice the first verse of 1 Cor 15 is addressed to "Brothers & Sisters!? Brothers and Sisters are all the baptized into ONE Body.. "The Body of Jesus"!
All of 1 Corinthians is addressed to "Brothers and Sisters.. Including this is also Part of the Gospel Paul preached.. 1 Cor 11:27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.
28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup.
29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.
30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.
31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment.

All of this (above) came before 1 Cor 15 it is what "Paul preached to his "Brothers & Sisters"! You cannot sin against a SYMBOL! Having COMMUNION with symbols is called "IDOLTRY!"

 

[GardenLady]

From Paul's letters ,how is a person saved today?

Why are protestants, especially fundamentalists, so obsessed with Paul and his formulas? Paul is not our savior, Jesus is. Why not focus on he words of Jesus (the "red letters" of the Bible)?

Paul was writing and preaching for a church being established by conversion. He did not experience a church in which people were raised in the Christian faith from birth and did not require conversion from Judaism, paganism, or other religion/nonreligion to become a Christian. Personally, I do not recall a time I did not believe. I didn't have to perform the "work" of making a decision, praying the sinners prayer, and being baptized as a youth or an adult to become a Christian. "Decision theology" is for conversion.

Interestingly, there are those who use Paul's words to say that the vast majority of Christians, including many fundamentalists are not saved. Example: many years ago, my college roommate joined a Oneness Pentecostal church, thereafter denied the trinity as non-Scriptural, and claimed that those who do not speak in tongues are not saved. And quoted Paul all the time, but Jesus rarely.

 

[Dogknox20]

Dogknox20, I respect your view, but disagree. I have not given up a relationship with Jesus, only with the Roman Catholic church. I am a active parishioner and communicant in a "small c" catholic denomination. Similar liturgy, same lectionary, and believe in the Real Presence in communion. I do no accept the territorial RC view that the Roman Catholic church is the "one true church" (as I was taught in my growing-up years and still hear from uber-Catholics) and believe the RC church has significant doctrinal and administrative problems. Nor do I believe the RC church is the only one with valid orders or the only one with valid communion. So let us respect one another and agree to disagree.

.
GardenLady nice post but you never said "WHY" you think the Catholic Church is NOT the only Church Jesus established before he ascended, you say it is a TRADITION! You must reject the Shepherd Jesus gave his keys too before he ascended and the authority to care for God' flock in his absents! You more then likely twist the "Real Presents" to mean Consubstantiation.
Ignatius wrote “Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there, just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.”[Epistle to the Smyrneans 8:2.].

GardenLady Heretics and schismatics in the fourth century tried to claim the term, "catholic"! In 397 Augustine pointed this out using an illustration from everyday life. “[T]he very name of Catholic . . . belongs to this Church alone . . . so much so that, although all heretics want to be called `catholic,’ when a stranger inquires where the Catholic Church meets, none of the heretics would dare to point out his own basilica or house” (Against the Letter of Mani Called `The Foundation’ 4:5).

GardenLady consubstantiation is NOT the same... If this is what you mean by; believing in the Real Presence in communion. I add.. just because you WANT the host to be "Really the real flesh of Jesus" doesn't mean your pastor believes it is! WISHING it to be "Real Presents" can't work with out a "Catholic Priest"! (large "C"!)

 

[GardenLady]

Dogknox20, as I said, let us agree to disagree.

 

[Dogknox20]

Dogknox20, as I said, let us agree to disagree.

.
Hello again... You have your reasons, I know. It's just me trying to understand people that has me wondering! History proves the Large "C" Catholic church is legitimate; All the early church fathers were Catholic! I must assume you believe somehow the One Church Jesus established fell off the rails! Kind of makes me think God is not all powerful, that he failed to do what he set out to accomplish!
Some protestants teach "Satan took Jesus' church from Jesus" and that they must re-Form or re-Establish what Jesus lost!" To teach this idea they are forced to reject the scriptures!
Makes me wonder tis all!

 

[John1.12]

It's the requirement for the Gospel, and Matthew 25's Parable of the Sheep & Goats clarifies it as does Jesus' Sermon On the Mount.

The point is that the overall Gospel really is quite simple, but it's also a challenge to follow at times.


BTW, if you are going to use verses for your position, consider quoting all or even part of it. And you might also make the point you're trying to make as well in order to avoid confusion and also save time.

THE GOSPEL.
1¶Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel l which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
( And here it is )

3¶For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
1 Cor 1.15

 

[John1.12]

.
Barry Johnson Yes that is Gospel... 1 cor 15... Died, buried and resurrected! Your point is what? That the words of Jesus mean nothing, the words of Paul are the answer; Is this it??
Words of Jesus... "My flesh is real food" & "Unless you eat my flesh you have no life in you"! These are gospel .. John 6!
Notice the first verse of 1 Cor 15 is addressed to "Brothers & Sisters!? Brothers and Sisters are all the baptized into ONE Body.. "The Body of Jesus"!
All of 1 Corinthians is addressed to "Brothers and Sisters.. Including this is also Part of the Gospel Paul preached.. 1 Cor 11:27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.
28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup.
29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.
30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.
31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment.

All of this (above) came before 1 Cor 15 it is what "Paul preached to his "Brothers & Sisters"! You cannot sin against a SYMBOL! Having COMMUNION with symbols is called "IDOLTRY!"

Moses came before Jesus, what's your point ?

 

[John1.12]

Why are protestants, especially fundamentalists, so obsessed with Paul and his formulas? Paul is not our savior, Jesus is. Why not focus on he words of Jesus (the "red letters" of the Bible)?

Paul was writing and preaching for a church being established by conversion. He did not experience a church in which people were raised in the Christian faith from birth and did not require conversion from Judaism, paganism, or other religion/nonreligion to become a Christian. Personally, I do not recall a time I did not believe. I didn't have to perform the "work" of making a decision, praying the sinners prayer, and being baptized as a youth or an adult to become a Christian. "Decision theology" is for conversion.

Interestingly, there are those who use Paul's words to say that the vast majority of Christians, including many fundamentalists are not saved. Example: many years ago, my college roommate joined a Oneness Pentecostal church, thereafter denied the trinity as non-Scriptural, and claimed that those who do not speak in tongues are not saved. And quoted Paul all the time, but Jesus rarely.

All the cults and false religions , bar none, quote ( mostly) Matthew , Acts , James and revelation and rarely Paul . Check it
.Even though Jesus commissioned Paul to be the APOSTLE to the gentiles . He writes 13 epistles no less .

 

[Dogknox20]

Have you read Romans 10.9-15 ?

9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Barry Johnson Believing in Jesus is believing the words of Jesus! “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”
What will you answer Jesus when he asks you; "Why did you not believe me?!"

Barry Johnson The apostles ARE believers** , Judas is NOT a believer, like you he rejects the words of Jesus: "My flesh is real food" he rejects Jesus "You must eat my flesh to have eternal life"!!!
These people also are NOT believers..>>> 66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.
** 68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”

 

[John1.12]

9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Barry Johnson Believing in Jesus is believing the words of Jesus! “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”
What will you answer Jesus when he asks you; "Why did you not believe me?!"

Barry Johnson The apostles ARE believers** , Judas is NOT a believer, like you he rejects the words of Jesus: "My flesh is real food" he rejects Jesus "You must eat my flesh to have eternal life"!!!
These people also are NOT believers..>>> 66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.
** 68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”

For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified,