• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Two Forward commentaries on Sheikh Jarrah

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
See:
What I appreciate about the latter is the clarity of the following ...

As any number of pro-Israel activists and government spokespeople will tell you, the Sheikh Jarrah case is a “complicated” matter. But complexity does not necessarily give rise to moral ambiguity.​

The Israeli laws that allow for the Jewish “reclamation” of Palestinian land in East Jerusalem is a one-way street. While Jews can reclaim land based on pre-1948 deeds, Palestinians cannot make claims on land their families owned in West Jerusalem before Israel’s independence. On top of that, the property of Palestinian refugees from the 1948 war was formally expropriated in 1950.

In brief, Palestinians in Sheikh Jarrah are being targeted with an unjust and discriminatory legal regime that denies Palestinians the right to make the same claims as Jews. Jerusalem municipal officials, not tied down by unconvincing Foreign Ministry talking points about a simple “real estate dispute,” have said as much in remarkably candid statements to the international press.

See, also, Wikipedia: Sheikh Jarrah.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
But this must be a just policy.
Ameristan supports it with massive financial, political, & military aid.
In a country ruled exclusively by Christians, we know what's right.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I'm reminded of Shakespeare's Merchant of Venice because not only is the one-sided law unjust but the fanatic right wing in Israel has taken Shylock's position. It won't end well and rivers of blood will flow:

... “That, in the course of justice, none of us / Should see salvation” (IV.1.197-8). We’re all sinners, in other words, redeemed only by God’s mercy -- so isn’t it our duty to show mercy and forgiveness to our fellow men?

...Shylock’s response:

“My deeds upon my head! I crave the law,
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
There are already sanctions, however the sanctions have had poor success in ending the conflict. If Israel applies pressure by threatening property maybe some kind of treaty will start to sound interesting to the people who are about to lose property. Maybe they will start to look at the here and now instead of the long past and say Ok lets draw some permanent borders.

This side of the ocean.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
I'm reminded of Shakespeare's Merchant of Venice because not only is the one-sided law unjust but the fanatic right wing in Israel has taken Shylock's position. It won't end well and rivers of blood will flow:

... “That, in the course of justice, none of us / Should see salvation” (IV.1.197-8). We’re all sinners, in other words, redeemed only by God’s mercy -- so isn’t it our duty to show mercy and forgiveness to our fellow men?

...Shylock’s response:

“My deeds upon my head! I crave the law,
Actually, Shylock's position was sound. It was only because a woman, pretending to be a lawyer and therefore with no standing to make any ruling, twisted a law which had been ignored, and of which apparently the local government was unaware, to exploit the situation and victimize Shylock.

So, yeah, I guess this is just like that.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member

The fanatic apologetics for Israel's crimes continues.

I'm starting to believe Israel may well have a problem with political and religious extremism that is nearly on par with its Arab neighbors. When people find it acceptable to justify blatant illegal occupation and state-sanctioned discrimination, something is deeply wrong within a country that breeds such a mentality.
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
It won't end well and rivers of blood will flow
It's almost as though we should ignore reality and claim that pre-1967 or even pre-1948 everything was peachy in the Land of Israel between Jews and Arabs. That would be a giant lie, of course.
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
In brief, Palestinians in Sheikh Jarrah are being targeted with an unjust and discriminatory legal regime that denies Palestinians the right to make the same claims as Jews.
Perhaps you could clarify why enemies of the State of Israel deserve the same rights as its citizens?
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
The fanatic apologetics for Israel's crimes continues.

I'm starting to believe Israel may well have a problem with political and religious extremism that is nearly on par with its Arab neighbors. When people find it acceptable to justify blatant illegal occupation and state-sanctioned discrimination, something is deeply wrong within a country that breeds such a mentality.
It is sad when people try to deny facts and law and prefer to call names and speculate. Something is wrong with any system that encourages and celebrates such ignorance. I hope you find the strength to rise above and join reality. Best of luck.
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
S

The Israeli laws that allow for the Jewish “reclamation” of Palestinian land in East Jerusalem is a one-way street. While Jews can reclaim land based on pre-1948 deeds, Palestinians cannot make claims on land their families owned in West Jerusalem before Israel’s independence. On top of that, the property of Palestinian refugees from the 1948 war was formally expropriated in 1950.

In brief, Palestinians in Sheikh Jarrah are being targeted with an unjust and discriminatory legal regime that denies Palestinians the right to make the same claims as Jews. Jerusalem municipal officials, not tied down by unconvincing Foreign Ministry talking points about a simple “real estate dispute,” have said as much in remarkably candid statements to the international press.

See, also, Wikipedia: Sheikh Jarrah.
This for sure a racism laws and unjustice laws .how could court or scholars made this laws in "civil" country !
Me wonder, why some people deny Israel is not include racism laws and unjustice actions toward Arabs and Muslims , what needed more proofs ?
Me wonder , what person heart could take others's home ? by name of religion and native nation of land!
Me worry how people suffered by racism by Nazi,be a racism toward other nation which host them in WW2 .
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
It's almost as though we should ignore reality and claim that pre-1967 or even pre-1948 everything was peachy in the Land of Israel between Jews and Arabs. That would be a giant lie, of course.

You're right that the hatred goes way back. The British did not help by promising both Muslims and Jews incompatible promises. And anti-Jewish riots were all too reminiscent of the pogroms in the Pale that my parents fled.

And the partition that led to Israel could have been peaceful except for the invasion by Muslim countries.

That made me a supporter of Israel through 1973 outside of the Anglo/French/Israeli invasion of Egypt.

But over time since 1973 outside of the Oslo Accords and Israelis leaving Gaza, Israel more and more has had a policy of gradually taking over the East Bank along with more and more Israelis wanting to drive Muslims out of that region (as well as from Israel proper).

Now we have a condition where Hamas and Netanyahu both see a value in an other round of war that was started partly by the provocation of shutting down a Muslim gathering place in Jerusalem for no reason and exacerbated by the discriminatory law that allows Jews to claim land where they once lived but does not allow Muslims to do the same thing.

If and when the day comes that Israel stops the land grabs in the East Bank, allows Muslims in the Knesset into the government on some basis and starts working on how to get out of the hole they're in - on that day I'll once again be a supporter of Israel.

And the same goes on the other side - if there's a Muslim Gandhi who renounces violence in pursuit of equal rights, I'll lend my support to that effort.
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
Palestinians fear loss of family homes as evictions loom.

Your "enemies of the state," much like Trumps "enemies of the people," is pathetic calumny at best.
Are you unable to debate politics without falling back on irrelevant adjectives?
And here I thought you were the cold, calculating, logical, enlightened leftist. Oh look, here I'm falling on irrelevant adjectives as well.

To the issue at hand:
Is the 19th century deed pathetic calumny as well? Are you able to contest it at court? Then have at it, instead of continuously pushing forward touchy-feely articles.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
It is sad when people try to deny facts and law and prefer to call names and speculate. Something is wrong with any system that encourages and celebrates such ignorance. I hope you find the strength to rise above and join reality. Best of luck.

Sure, let's talk about facts and law:

Stop evictions in East Jerusalem neighbourhood immediately, UN rights office urges Israel

Israel is committing the crime of apartheid, rights group says

Your objection to criticism of Israel and Jewish extremism is no different from Islamists' throwing out the term "Islamophobia" to dismiss legitimate criticism of their beliefs. It is quite eye-opening that two sides so strongly opposed in their interests are simultaneously so similar in their MO.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
Sure, let's talk about facts and law:

Stop evictions in East Jerusalem neighbourhood immediately, UN rights office urges Israel

Israel is committing the crime of apartheid, rights group says

Your objection to criticism of Israel and Jewish extremism is no different from Islamists' throwing out the term "Islamophobia" to dismiss legitimate criticism of their beliefs. It is quite eye-opening that two sides so strongly opposed in their interests are simultaneously so similar in their MO.
Ah, claims by "rights groups" that don't address the actual legal issues involved but are mired in the incorrect labelling of the disputed territory. So a lot of "urging". Fascinating.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member

One mistake you are making here is citing facts to counter pro-Israel arguments largely rooted in political and religious tribalism as well as rigid dogma. I suspect many of those on the Jewish and Muslim camps who believe they have a divine right to the "Holy Land" don't care about reason or facts nearly as much as they do advancing their politically and religiously extremist narrative. As long as this remains the case both in Israel and the Arab world, I see no end in sight to this unfortunate conflict.
 
Last edited:

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Ah, claims by "rights groups" that don't address the actual legal issues involved but are mired in the incorrect labelling of the disputed territory. So a lot of "urging". Fascinating.

Okay, perhaps a joint statement from multiple EU countries would be better to you than statements from rights groups?

European powers call on Israel to halt settlement expansion | DW | 06.05.2021

One of the "actual legal issues" is that Israel continues to build illegal settlements despite international calls to cease and desist.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
Okay, perhaps a joint statement from multiple EU countries would be better to you than statements from rights groups?

European powers call on Israel to halt settlement expansion | DW | 06.05.2021

One of the "actual legal issues" is that Israel continues to build illegal settlements despite international calls to cease and desist.
except that the European label is likewise incorrect and Jersualem is not a settlement. But feel free to hitch yourself to that wagon.
 
Top