Does your belief / religion ect offer a better deal ?

[Muffled]

The discussion here is based on what the requirements for your belief/ religion are . What is required of you to do in order to attain. Its immediate benefits/ results and its future promise / fulfilment.
Now this of course is based on whether or not said belief is true or not. But first let's discuss what's on offer here and my argument is , I don't believe anyone can offer more than I already have ,as a bible believing Christian . Not immediately or in the future.

I believe you are require to receive Jesus as Lord and Savior in order to be given eternal life.

 

[John1.12]

I don't see that lawlessness makes it a better religion. It actually appears the opposite to me.

Not a big fan of ' religion ' .

 

[loverofhumanity]

.
loverofhumanity I hope all is well.... I say right off: My God loves me! I have a very personal relationship with my God; He died never ever to die again. No one can die twice! Think: you can't even kill a stinking, no good, mangy dog two times, one death for every thing! Soooo-- with this fact in mind Jesus cannot die a second time; He has been there and done that!
I was immersed into his living forever body as long as I say in his never to die again body I also will never die... IT is just this simple!
I know beyond all doubt Jesus loves me "He died for me, he took my place! BECAUSE...

loverofhumanity because Jesus was without sin death could not hold him.... Jesus rose up out of the grave as a cork might rise up in a pool of water!
56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.

I was immersed into Jesus risen body and I REMAIN in Jesus as long as I am nourished by his never to die again flesh!
QUESTION: "Where did you find Jesus? You said.. "But when I found He had returned"!
Jesus rose from death he has not yet returned.. He will return at the end!
God bless.. I hope you find truth!

Jesus said to watch and pray. So I watched and prayed and saw Him coming in the clouds with angels. Christian dogma is geared for Christ never to return which is why I believe, like the Pharisees told the Jews He wasn’t the Messiah so the clergy will forever say He hasn’t come yet. The Jews, for 2,000 years to this day have maintained He never was the Messiah so I estimate that Christian clergy will do the same for thousands of years to come. It’s a pity we haven’t learned from the past.

I saw with my own eyes and heard the call of Jesus with my own ears and so I’m very sorry over 2 billion Christians have missed His Second coming but I have not failed to remain faithful to Him and turned to Him when He returned. Like the early disciples I’m very blest that I was not misled like the majority of people.

 

[sayak83]

Not a big fan of ' religion ' .

I am still waiting for an answer as to why Hinduism does not provide a better deal than Christianity.

 

[Muffled]

I see it as two different teachings seeking to elevate the followers to the paradise each teaching speak of. So i am not going to say Sufism is better or the only true way to God. For me it seems to help me realize deeper wisdom than i held in the past. So sufism is right for me.
The difference as i understand it is that Christianity speak of Jesus has taken the sin of every person for all eternaty, so it does not matter what the person actually do, as long they believe in Jesus they go to heaven. This is not the teaching within Sufism, Sufism speak of the path that lead to each person awakening to the thruth by their own effort to better them self, and removal of all the bad habbits they may hold. So sufism is much more about realizing the truth from within, than believing that Allah or Muhammad take us to paradise just because we believe in them.

I believe that is not true. Jesus said such people will go into the fire. A Christian continues to live without sin by receiving Jesus as Lord and Savior. The works follow because Jesus in me does not sin.

I believe a belief in Jesus is reflected by what I said in the previous passage but I also believe the idea that one goes to Heaven because of belief alone is a Christian myth.

I believe seeking truth is a good thing but it can only be found in Jesus who says He is the truth.

 

[Muffled]

I do not know what exactly you believe. However the trouble with most people who call themselves "bible-believing" Christians (thereby falsely and absurdly implying that other Christians aren't) is that it demands that adherents sacrifice their God-given intellect, by believing things that can be shown to be absurd.

In my view that is a terrible "deal", given that we only have one life and that our intellect is the biggest gift we have.

I believe I retain my intellect. Having God as my guide gives me much better information than my own mind can give me.

I believe that is where intellect falls short of reality.

I believe that is not true. I believe we have many lives up to the point when eternal life comes in.

 

[Muffled]

Well I'm a universalist, so I believe in certainty of *eventual* reconcilliation with God for whoever desires it, I believe in eternal life for everyone, but I believe in a spectrum of spiritual development rather than a binary heaven/hell state. And I also believe that those wishing to progress in virtue may progress in spiritual development after death. I couldn't ethically promise you no fear of dying though, because that is a natural part of the physical response to an existential threat, the only way to block such a physical response that i know of is through use of substances I would not recommend such as cocaine.

I believe eternal life will not be given to the wicked even if they desire it. What they have to desire is to be good.

 

[exchemist]

I believe I retain my intellect. Having God as my guide gives me much better information than my own mind can give me.

Speak for yourself.

 

[Trailblazer]

I said Christians are not UNDER the law and its legal demands .

That's lawlessness.
Christians either follow the law or not. You cannot have it both ways just for your convenience.

 

[Trailblazer]

I saw with my own eyes and heard the call of Jesus with my own ears and so I’m very sorry over 2 billion Christians have missed His Second coming but I have not failed to remain faithful to Him and turned to Him when He returned. Like the early disciples I’m very blest that I was not misled like the majority of people.

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

“The Book of God is wide open, and His Word is summoning mankind unto Him. No more than a mere handful, however, hath been found willing to cleave to His Cause, or to become the instruments for its promotion. These few have been endued with the Divine Elixir that can, alone, transmute into purest gold the dross of the world, and have been empowered to administer the infallible remedy for all the ills that afflict the children of men. No man can obtain everlasting life, unless he embraceth the truth of this inestimable, this wondrous, and sublime Revelation.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 183

 

[exchemist]

That is true. But the Catholics often think they are the only ones with an apostolic succession. They claim that they alone are from Peter and that is supposed to be official, according to them.

The Catholic church seems to recognise the validity of a large number of Orthodox and other Eastern churches, to the extent that Catholics are in principle allowed to receive communion in their churches. But not Protestant churches, clearly.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The Catholic church seems to recognise the validity of a large number of Orthodox and other Eastern churches, to the extent that Catholics are in principle allowed to receive communion in their churches. But not Protestant churches, clearly.

True. It is usually individual believers that try to claim that all other Christian churches are false. There are 'fundamentalist' Catholics just as there are fundamental Protestants. The Catholic hierarchy is not so "It is us or them" in their attitude. Perhaps I should have been more specific and said "some Catholics".

 

[exchemist]

True. It is usually individual believers that try to claim that all other Christian churches are false. There are 'fundamentalist' Catholics just as there are fundamental Protestants. The Catholic hierarchy is not so "It is us or them" in their attitude. Perhaps I should have been more specific and said "some Catholics".

Erm yes, we have some of those on this forum in fact. But the voice of reasonable authority on such things here is @Vouthon. I wonder what has become of him - have not seem him around for quite a while.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Erm yes, we have some of those on this forum in fact. But the voice of reasonable authority on such things here is @Vouthon. I wonder what has become of him - have not seem him around for quite a while.

I know that if you look at the Catholic hierarchy they do not seem to have that sort of belief. There have even been attempts to reunite some of the churches since their dogma is not all that different. I think that the "Catholic only" folks are making the same sort of error that fundamentalists make when they read the Bible literally. One is making an idol of the Bible and the other of the Catholic Church.

 

[exchemist]

I know that if you look at the Catholic hierarchy they do not seem to have that sort of belief. There have even been attempts to reunite some of the churches since their dogma is not all that different. I think that the "Catholic only" folks are making the same sort of error that fundamentalists make when they read the Bible literally. One is making an idol of the Bible and the other of the Catholic Church.

It can be a sort of tribalism, I suppose.

 

[Bird123]

//I was actually raised on the Bible. I discovered at an early age so much of it simply does not add up.// For instance? What was this deal breaker ,that didn't add up ?

Why would God create someone God knew would go to Hell? Why would God even create Hell? Why would God fry any His children? Why does God create an eternal punishment without the possibility of redemption after the fact? Why does God create a we against they among His children? Why does God value so many of the petty things that mankind holds so dear like judging, threatening,condemning, payback, punishing, ruling, controlling, intimidating, coercing, wrath, anger, hate, the using of pain in order to control the actions of others, degrading people as flawed from birth, wanting women to be submissive, and the list goes on and on.

How can all those people who live in your Heaven ever get along when they can't get along now?

God is supposed to be at a Higher Level. If I can rise to a Higher Level, why can't God? Why should might makes right lead one to ignore what is really right? Why should one accept only to ignore what is right. If God can create Universes, why is God not smart enough to create a better system? There are an endless supply of questions that one should ask to Discover the truth instead of allowing the accepting to blind one to everything.

The Bible is a creation of mankind. That is who it reflects. God's system and ways do add up. God loves all His children Unconditionally. God is not going to discard nor destroy anyone because of anyone's choices. Why do you think a Being that is capable of creating Universes can't handle a few wayward children?

God is at a Higher Level and does not value all those petty things mankind holds so dear. There are so many that speak for God, yet they really do not have a clue. They speak more for themselves than anything else.

What is the first thing a wise man realizes once he truly becomes wise? Anybody? Anybody? The first thing a wise man realizes once he truly becomes wise is that there is so much more to learn. With that in mind, can one really be wise when one no longer Questions and succumbs to blindly accepting? With so much to Learn and Discover, there exists an infinite number of Questions for the hungry student to ask. Like I said, God hides nothing. God places knowledge all around. It waits to be Discovered.

So what is the deal breaker? It's like Swiss cheese. There are holes everywhere and so very much that does not add up or can not add up. Just like all the physics of this world add up, so does everything about God. This is the base one must have on the journey to Discover the Real Truth and what God and this world are all about.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Shakeel]

Why would God create someone God knew would go to Hell? Why would God even create Hell? Why would God fry any His children? Why does God create an eternal punishment without the possibility of redemption after the fact? Why does God create a we against they among His children? Why does God value so many of the petty things that mankind holds so dear like judging, threatening,condemning, payback, punishing, ruling, controlling, intimidating, coercing, wrath, anger, hate, the using of pain in order to control the actions of others, degrading people as flawed from birth, wanting women to be submissive, and the list goes on and on.

How can all those people who live in your Heaven ever get along when they can't get along now?

God is supposed to be at a Higher Level. If I can rise to a Higher Level, why can't God? Why should might makes right lead one to ignore what is really right? Why should one accept only to ignore what is right. If God can create Universes, why is God not smart enough to create a better system? There are an endless supply of questions that one should ask to Discover the truth instead of allowing the accepting to blind one to everything.

The Bible is a creation of mankind. That is who it reflects. God's system and ways do add up. God loves all His children Unconditionally. God is not going to discard nor destroy anyone because of anyone's choices. Why do you think a Being that is capable of creating Universes can't handle a few wayward children?

God is at a Higher Level and does not value all those petty things mankind holds so dear. There are so many that speak for God, yet they really do not have a clue. They speak more for themselves than anything else.

What is the first thing a wise man realizes once he truly becomes wise? Anybody? Anybody? The first thing a wise man realizes once he truly becomes wise is that there is so much more to learn. With that in mind, can one really be wise when one no longer Questions and succumbs to blindly accepting? With so much to Learn and Discover, there exists an infinite number of Questions for the hungry student to ask. Like I said, God hides nothing. God places knowledge all around. It waits to be Discovered.

So what is the deal breaker? It's like Swiss cheese. There are holes everywhere and so very much that does not add up or can not add up. Just like all the physics of this world add up, so does everything about God. This is the base one must have on the journey to Discover the Real Truth and what God and this world are all about.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

And your proof?

 

[Dogknox20]

Actually, The Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox churches also have Apostolic Succession, and the Anglican Communion and some of the Lutheran churches at least make claim to it.

IndigoChild5559 Yes all the Churches accepting the Authority of the Pope are Catholic! These churches have Apostolic Succession! There is the Eastern Orthodox brock from Roam in 1054 they reject the Authority of the Pope they also have apostolic succession..! BUT in general.... All churches started by MEN all Protestant churches including the Anglicans are NOT! All claim to be catholic small "c" all reject Jesus!
IndigoChild5559 this is scripture (below) they all claim to believe in the scriptures but to reject the ONLY Church Jesus established they are forced to reject the words of God as LIES!
Luke 10:16 “Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.”
Clearly they reject God!

John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—
IndigoChild5559 FOREVER means: God is with the ONLY Church Jesus built on rock not on sand NEVER to leave his Holy Body for another man made church!!

 

[Subduction Zone]

IndigoChild5559 Yes all the Churches accepting the Authority of the Pope are Catholic! These churches have Apostolic Succession! There is the Eastern Orthodox brock from Roam in 1054 they reject the Authority of the Pope they also have apostolic succession..! BUT in general.... All churches started by MEN all Protestant churches including the Anglicans are NOT! All claim to be catholic small "c" all reject Jesus!
IndigoChild5559 this is scripture (below) they all claim to believe in the scriptures but to reject the ONLY Church Jesus established they are forced to reject the words of God as LIES!
Luke 10:16 “Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.”
Clearly they reject God!

John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—
IndigoChild5559 FOREVER means: God is with the ONLY Church Jesus built on rock not on sand NEVER to leave his Holy Body for another man made church!!

LOL, all churches were started by men.

 

[Dogknox20]

No Christians will be present here . This is the end of the tribulation.

So says you!!!!
There is NO scriptures to support your wish! You have placed your salvation in the TRADITIONS of men! You MUST reject the words of Jesus (Scriptures) to believe the story

When Jesus comes he is coming to Judge the RIGHTEOUS & UNRIGETIOUS!!! I guess that leaves you out...
Apparently you will not be here when Jesus comes to judge but there will be Good people here when he comes!
Matthew 25:31
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.
32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

Barry Johnson use your noodle!!!!!
Do you see it.... separates the sheep from the goats. QUESTION: are you a Sheep or a Goat?! Can't be a sheep you won't be here "Raptured" who are these Sheep and Goats!?!
If you say a Sheep THEN.... Why are you still here at the end times!.. If you have been raptured what are you doing here! ??? DUH!
FACT: There will be SHEEP (The Righteous) when he Gathers All the nations for judgment! More then likely you will not be Raptured because the GOATS believe in "Faith ALONE" that's you "The Protestant" rejects the words of Jesus trusting in Man Made Traditions of "Faith & Scriptures ALONE!"! IF....
Barry Johnson if there is Rapture WHY oh WHY are there Sheep here when Jesus comes!? Clearly you cannot be a Sheep they are "Righteous persons"! Righteous = Those who do right!
1 John 3:7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.

The teachings of "Faith and Scriptures ALONE" are Man made TRADITIONS unheard of until Martin Luther 1700 years after Jesus!
The teaching of "Rapture" is a Man Made TRADITION.. It was unheard of until John Nelson Darby1850 years after Jesus!
"Faith and Scriptures ALONE", "Rapture" are NOT biblical.. the protestant must reject outright or twist and massage the scriptures until God says what they want his to say!