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Jesus' Four Failed Prophecies About Him Returning In The Lifetimes Of His Apostles

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not PART of God.
The oft cited diagram below says that the Father is God and the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God.
How then is God not divided up into three parts? This is your chance to explain it.

upload_2021-5-4_14-13-59.png
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
With my background and training in psychology, it is my concerted opinion that she is not a troll, but rather she really believes what she is posting; but like most Christians, she does not want to look at the evidence from her own Bible that contradicts her beliefs.

As with many Christians, she has no response to ANY evidence that proves she is wrong, because she cannot prove that evidence is wrong in an honest debate. How could she, when all she has is the Bible and her own Bible proves she is wrong?
Tb, you really ought to know that you CANNOT prove me wrong. And I cannot prove you wrong. The difference between us is that I don't attempt the impossible.
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
The oft cited diagram below says that the Father is God and the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God.
How then is God not divided up into three parts? This is your chance to explain it.

View attachment 50208
But it says more than "the Father is God and the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God".
Look again, think about it. and don't expect every answer to be handed to you on a plate.
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
I am not going to do your digging for you. It was explained in the article below which includes verses..

Which Christian denominations do not believe in the Trinity? Why not?

The Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS, Iglesia Ni Cristo, Christadelphians, Christian Scientists, Dawn Bible Students, Living Church of God, Oneness Pentecostals, Members Church of God International, Unitarian Universalist Christians, The Way International, The Church of God International, the United Church of God, and Armstrongism do not believe in trinitarinanism because they do not share history with the post-apostolic process that concocted the doctrine. Also, Unitarians believe that the Father is the sole deity and the Savior was not God.

Virtually all other Christian denominations believe in the 3-in-1 Trinity because of the influence from Roman Catholicism.

The seeds of trinitarian ideas were fabricated over the course of centuries following Jesus' death and came into vogue in the 4th century AD when Emperor Constantine, an unbaptized pagan, threw his weight behind it for political reasons. After decades of controversy and much bloodshed over the issue, the doctrine of trinitarianism was made official by the Council of Constantinople 381AD. By then, there were no 12 apostles living to contradict it. (I redacted “Athanasian Creed” from this paragraph in response to Francis Mardsden’s comment.)

Trinitarianism is not Biblical - just the opposite. Jesus said, The Father is greater than the Son. (John 14:28) That alone explodes the trinitarian myth. Also, all three godhead members were manifested separately at Christ’s baptism; Jesus in the river, the Father's voice from heaven, and the Spirit descending like a dove. (Matthew 3:16-17) On many occasions, Jesus prayed to His Father with words that prove they were two distinct individuals, Jesus conforming His will to the Father’s. The risen Lord told Mary He had yet to visit His Father. Jesus claimed not to know when the end would come and said only His Father knew. (Mark 13:32) Jesus said, The Son will judge but not the Father. (John 5:22) He said, blasphemy against Him and the Father was forgivable but not against the Holy Ghost. On the cross, He asked His Father why He had forsaken Him. (Mt. 27:46) “After the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.” (Mk. 16:19) As Stephen was being stoned, he looked into heaven and saw “Jesus standing on the right hand of God.” (Acts 7:55) These are but a few examples of Jesus teaching and demonstrating that He was separate and distinct from His Father.

The references in the Bible declaring the Father and the Son to be “one” are explained by Christ Himself in His intercessory prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane where He asked His Father to help the disciples to become “one” even as He and the Father were one. The Bible says a husband and wife become “one flesh” but nobody suspects that marriage transforms a couple of humans into an incomprehensible binity. (Mark 10:8) Unity of mind and purpose is a common theme in life.

Only extremely twisted logic allows a person to believe in a Jesus who is also His own Father conceived by His own Holy Ghost self! Trinitarianism pollutes the true character of the godhead and contradicts the scripture that "God created man in his own image" as we are not triple-personality nor composite individuals. Trinitarianism hyper-mystifies God, unnecessarily distancing us from the Father of our spirits while depersonalizing our Savior by denying Him of His distinct individuality.

Even those who believe it have trouble explaining it, invoking obscure terminologies that the average person finds foreign and obfuscational. “God is three consubstantial persons or hypostases.” The Athanasian Creed repeats the same theme multiple times, as if verbosity stabilizes the nonsense. “We worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons; nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God.” And so on and on and on.

The question should be rephrased, “Which Christian sects hold to trinitarianism and why?”

Which Christian denominations do not believe in the Trinity? Why not? - Quora
***
And I offer another article...

When we confess our faith in the
Trinity, we affirm that God is one in essence and three in person. Thus, God is one in A and three in B.

If we said that He is one in essence and three in essence, that would
be a contradiction. If we said He is one in person and three in person, that also would be a contradiction. But as mysterious as the Trinity is, perhaps even above and beyond
our capacity to understand it in its fullness, the historic formula is not a contradiction.

Before we can talk about the Trinity, we have to talk about unity, because the word Trinity means “tri-unity.”

Behind the concept of unity is the biblical affirmation of monotheism. The prefix mono means “one or single,” while the root word theism has to do with God. So, monotheism
conveys the idea that there is only one God.

What Is the Trinity? (Free Downloads)
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Tb, you really ought to know that you CANNOT prove me wrong. And I cannot prove you wrong. The difference between us is that I don't attempt the impossible.
This is not about me and you.
The Bible, when interpreted correctly, proves you are wrong about your beliefs.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
***
And I offer another article...

When we confess our faith in the
Trinity, we affirm that God is one in essence and three in person. Thus, God is one in A and three in B.

If we said that He is one in essence and three in essence, that would
be a contradiction. If we said He is one in person and three in person, that also would be a contradiction. But as mysterious as the Trinity is, perhaps even above and beyond
our capacity to understand it in its fullness, the historic formula is not a contradiction.

Before we can talk about the Trinity, we have to talk about unity, because the word Trinity means “tri-unity.”

Behind the concept of unity is the biblical affirmation of monotheism. The prefix mono means “one or single,” while the root word theism has to do with God. So, monotheism
conveys the idea that there is only one God.

What Is the Trinity? (Free Downloads)
God is one in essence. The Father is God, but Jesus is not God and the Holy Spirit is not God, so that means God is not three Persons, and that blows the Trinity doctrine right out of the water.

images


The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God that emanates from God who is the Father.
God sent the Holy Spirit to Jesus and Jesus brought the Holy Spirit to humanity.
 
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samtonga43

Well-Known Member
This is not about me and you.
The Bible, when interpreted correctly, proves you are wrong about your beliefs.

Oh dear! This is too easy. Can’t you see the assumption you are making here, Tb? I shall explain if you need me to do so, but try to figure it out for yourself – best way to learn.
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
This is NOT about my Baha'i beliefs. As you well know and as I just posted, not ALL Christians believe in the Trinity doctrine....
The Christians who are rational don't believe in it.
Jesus and the Holy Spirit work together to reveal God, they are not PART of God.

How do you know that Christians who are rational don't believe in the Trinity doctrine?
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
Oh please, I have posted evidence in the past. You ignored it. right now it looks as if you are just trolling.

Only to you, SZ. Only to you.

And your projection is truly amazing. Yep, too old for you. I never made any other claims. But you are acting just like a schoolgirl trying to get the attention of a boy that she fancies.

Do you remember as far back as that? ;)

Meanwhile all you post here are claims. I cannot remember any evidence posted by you in our exchanges.

Of course I have provided evidence. You chose not to see it.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
How do you know that Christians who are rational don't believe in the Trinity doctrine?
I am not going to get into the debate about who is rational and who is not because that is merely a matter of personal opinion. All I am going to say is that the Trinity doctrine is not true because Jesus is not God and the Holy Spirit is not God. Moreover, it is not possible for Jesus to be God and the Son of God and God at the same time, as that is logically impossible. Jesus was the Son of God, not God incarnate, so that means the Trinity doctrine is toast.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I am not going to get into the debate about who is rational and who is not because that is merely a matter of personal opinion. All I am going to say is that the Trinity doctrine is not true because Jesus is not God and the Holy Spirit is not God. Moreover, it is not possible for Jesus to be God and the Son of God and God at the same time, as that is logically impossible. Jesus was the Son of God, not God incarnate, so that means the Trinity doctrine is toast.
It would appear to violate the Law of the Excluded Middle, though in this case the Excluded Muddle may be more accurate:

Law of excluded middle - Wikipedia
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
I am not going to get into the debate about who is rational and who is not because that is merely a matter of personal opinion. All I am going to say is that the Trinity doctrine is not true because Jesus is not God and the Holy Spirit is not God. Moreover, it is not possible for Jesus to be God and the Son of God and God at the same time, as that is logically impossible. Jesus was the Son of God, not God incarnate, so that means the Trinity doctrine is toast.

And all I am going to say is...

ONE Being, THREE Persons

Jesus is the Second Person of the Trinity.

The Holy Spirit is the Third Person of the Trinity.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
And all I am going to say is...

ONE Being, THREE Persons

Jesus is the Second Person of the Trinity.

The Holy Spirit is the Third Person of the Trinity.
You can SAY whatever you want to SAY, but that won't make it true.

Jesus is not God.

The Holy Spirit is not God.

The Father is God.

God is not a Person.

God is One.
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
You can SAY whatever you want to SAY, but that won't make it true.

Jesus is not God.

The Holy Spirit is not God.

The Father is God.

God is not a Person.

God is One.

You nearly have it:
The Father is God.
God is not a Person.
God is One.

The Godhead is Triune.
 
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