All roads lead to the same God ?

[KerimF]

I really don't think that either you or I are in peril from any supernatural being, now or after death.

It seems you read my mind.
Otherwise, it would look as an engineer who built a robot, then he warns it that it will face real bad consequences if it doesn't follow its embedded instructions properly
In other words, a living thing which is given a sort of living flesh (as the human living one) only... will end up returning back to the state of void (the state before its birth/existence).
So whoever perceives in himself a living flesh only (so he sees himself being guided in life by its instincts only) is free to do anything he sees good for him. He will simply return back to the state of void when he lost his body for good. Almost all people on earth enjoy following their instincts only. Therefore, they are very important in serving the material world; by building and/or destroying (because by doing both the material world can run properly... but this is another big topic).

I have the impression there is no need to talk here about something that one may perceive other than his living body.

But if your beliefs bring you comfort and a sense of being in tune with your world, then I wish you well.

As I pointed earlier I can't accept an idea while being based on faith. The idea has to be useful to me and logical (based on the same logical process by which I accepted all precious ideas, scientific or else). So most of what I discovered about the real life is not supposed to be known by the common people in the world because revealing certain natural truths in public (via satellites for example) are considered taboo by their powerful rich classes (in any region on earth). So it was natural that Jesus was condemned to death just for revealing them in public.

Even in Science (I am an independent designer in electronic and programmer), I discovered, about 40 years ago, a novel solution in data communications (it was an MS thesis) that even IEEE denies the possibility of its existence (though I used it to scramble my private RF short-range voice transmissions in the 80's and for many years when I didn't have a phone line at home).

So I didn't need awaiting an idea to be approved by the world's Elite (religious, scientific or political) in order to accept it. It happens I am given a human brain as the one that those Elite have

 

[paarsurrey]

So what are you doing with all the verses that contradict you ? What process are you using to believe one verse over another . Jesus is literally saying over and over what he is going to do . 'the death , burial and resurrection ' . You seem to be coming at this really bizarrely? Which parts of the bible are true and false and what system are you using to decide lol I'm genuinely confused by you .

Barry Jonson wrote about Jesus' ," 'the death , burial and resurrection ' "

Friend, Jesus never died on the Cross, he was buried alive in the tomb and was treated for the injuries inflicted on the Cross by his disciples, when he was able enough he came out of the tomb. Jesus never resurrected from the literal and physical dead, I understand:

Pauline-Christianity, as It is today, is based on a made-up vision of Paul (and the credulous Pauline-Christians, mislead by him believe it) with below mentioned false creeds, I understand:

1. Jesus s/o Mary died a cursed death on the Cross (with no reliable eyewitness to narrate it)
2. to lift the burden of the sins of the sinful Christians including Paul and the disciples and or the Apostles (as none other than Jesus is innocent as Christians are made to believe)
3. Jesus s/o Mary rose from the dead, (it is false concept), as he did not die on the Cross to start with, (it was crafted to make Jesus God, which is never true).
4. And then Jesus s/o Mary secretly traveled to Galilee (a false pretext, if Jesus s/o Mary was God then he needed not to move about secretly)
5. and from Galilee Jesus s/o Mary ascended to the skies (another false claim, if Jesus was God he would have ascended to skies right from Golgotha where he was put on the Cross)
6. (What facility is there in Galilee that made it easier for Jesus to ascend to sky from Galilee that was not available in Golgotha)
7. And Jesus sat on the right hand of God-the-Father and the “spectators” saw him seated (none mentioned by names and other verifiable antecedents of them)
8. (And none of them mentioned as to how long did they see Jesus in the sky and then he disappeared from the sky, and why can’t they see him now seated there.)

Paul in a way made confession (of his wrong doing) later:

“1 Corinthians 15:13-15
13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is worthless, and so is your faith. 15 In that case, we are also exposed as false witnesses about God.”

1 Corinthians 15:14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is worthless, and so is your faith.

Yes, Paul is exposed that he faked the vision and corrupted the Gospels to fit his Anti-Christ ideas (agenda). Right, please?
This is the basis of the Pauline-Christianity whatever their denomination, be they the Catholics or Protestants or the later denominations like JWs or LDS or the Bahais who believe Jesus died on the Cross.
Right, please?
The above denominations/religions may refute the above argument, please .

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Jesus went first to his own in answer to the long faith and struggle of the descendants of Abraham. The Son (and his original Gospel message) was the answer and the reason for their faith. The idea was that they were supposed to receive him and preach his message to the world from Jerusalem.

* Coming to the knowledge that he was going to be rejected and killed as prophets before him had been mistreated, is NOT the same as saying it was Gods will that the son be rejected and killed. The cross has great meaning but a condition for Gods forgiveness isn't one of them.

* With Jesus we were supposed to become like little children in trusting his "good news" Gospel of the Kingdom. We were supposed to be starting over again fresh and apart from the hopelessly complicated and thick headed theology of the Israelites.

* Speculation about Jesus, his identity and the meaning of his teachings began immediately after he ascended into Heaven. Personalities rose up and influenced the development of a religion about Jesus.
I always knew the Old Testament was very flawed and that the Bible is not a document of perfection.
.

To quote from the post of friend cOLTER "immediately after he (Jesus) ascended into Heaven "

This never happened please see my post #203 above, please. Right?

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

That's the Christian religion, its not the religion that Jesus taught before the tragic cross and destruction of the unbelieving Jews, their Temple, their city and their nation.

The religion that Jesus taught prior to the event of Cross is the truthful religions of Jesus and it is starkly different from the religion the Pauline-Christians (all 32000+ denominations including JWs. LDS) that is crafted after the event of Cross, I understand.
Right?

Regards

 

[KerimF]

Yes, Paul is exposed that he faked the vision and corrupted the Gospels to fit his Anti-Christ ideas (agenda). Right, please?

Your point is interesting. But I am not sure what the Anti-Christ ideas, you mentioned, could be.
I wonder if you can give me a quick review of them.
Thank you.

 

[paarsurrey]

Kemetic 42 Declarations of Innocence,

1. I have not done evil.
2. I have not been a coward.
3. I have not raped or molested.
4. I have not stolen.
5. I have not murdered.
6. I have not defrauded the temple.
7. I have not been deceitful toward allies, leaders, family or friends.
8. I have not been sacrilegious in thought or deed.
9. I have not lied to those who deserve the truth.
10. I have not deprived the less fortunate.
11. I have not uttered evil words.
12. I have not attacked the righteous.
13. I have not turned away from natural procreation.
14. I have not become overcome with anguish or grief.
15. I have not harmed the land or the animals thereon.
16. I have not spied against the people.
17. I have not spoken against the sacred teachings.
18. I have not been undisciplined.
19. I have not been an adulterer, homosexual or child molester.
20. I have not harmed myself.
21. I have not violated sacred times.
22. I have not allowed myself to be abused.
23. I have not surrendered to the enemy.
24. I have not stopped my ears from the words of right and wrong.
25. I have not been disobedient.
26. I have not presented a false image of myself to loved ones.
27. I have not lain with a child, animal, an enemy of my people, or others of my sex.
28. I have not used ignorance to confront the ignorant.
29. I have not abused children, the elderly, the infirmed, or my spouse.
30. I have not been lazy.
31. I have not been impatient.
32. I have not deviated from the teachings.
33. I have not multiplied my speech overmuch.
34. I have not pondered evil, impure or harmful thoughts.
35. I have not betrayed my leaders or my people.
36. I have not fouled the water.
37. I have not been contemptuous or patronizing.
38. I have not been passive.
39. I have not been arrogant or boastful.
40. I have not been self-serving.
41. I have not been greedy.
42. I have not given in to my lower nature.

Who authored the above, please?

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Your point is interesting. But I am not sure what the Anti-Christ ideas, you mentioned, could be.
I wonder if you can give me a quick review of them.
Thank you.

All basic creeds of Pauline-Christianity crafted after the event of Cross are:

1. against the teachings Jesus taught prior to the event of Cross,
2. and hence form anti-Christ's teachings

Right?

Regards

 

[KerimF]

All basic creeds of Pauline-Christianity crafted after the event of Cross are:

1. against the teachings Jesus taught prior to the event of Cross,
2. and hence form anti-Christ's teachings

Right?

Regards

You let me be curious now. May I ask you what you personally learnt from Jesus teachings? Just a summary perhaps.

Thank you.

 

[Colt]

To quote from the post of friend cOLTER "immediately after he (Jesus) ascended into Heaven "

This never happened please see my post #203 above, please. Right?

Regards

Yes, it happened, but I understand that you simply don't believe it.

The content of post #203 is made up nonsense.

 

[Rival]

Who authored the above, please?

Regards

Who knows.

 

[Colt]

The religion that Jesus taught prior to the event of Cross is the truthful religions of Jesus and it is starkly different from the religion the Pauline-Christians (all 32000+ denominations including JWs. LDS) that is crafted after the event of Cross, I understand.
Right?

Regards

After Jesus proved his divinity by returning from the death of his body, appearing to BELIVERS and ascending into heaven, his followers began to create a religion about Jesus which invariably replaced the original religion of Jesus.

 

[paarsurrey]

After Jesus proved his divinity by returning from the death of his body, appearing to BELIVERS and ascending into heaven, his followers began to create a religion about Jesus which invariably replaced the original religion of Jesus.

Jesus never died on the Cross in the first place, so he was the same human as before, that is the reason he had to move secretly, please. Right?

Regards

 

[KerimF]

After Jesus proved his divinity by returning from the death of his body, appearing to BELIVERS and ascending into heaven, his followers began to create a religion about Jesus which invariably replaced the original religion of Jesus.

Sorry, you gave me the impression that Jesus, the Living Word of God (equivalent to Son of God), was imperfect in his teachings. Therefore, it was necessary that some mere men were needed later to adjust them in order to let them be perfect.

But perhaps I didn't understand you well.

 

[Colt]

Jesus never died on the Cross in the first place, so he was the same human as before, that is the reason he had to move secretly, please. Right?

Regards

No wrong, that's not true. Those are the claims of the Anti-Christ. Yes

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Or its true and there's no other way of saying it . Jesus being the only way ,is literally what the bible says . And you don't Join a church building / establishment/ organisation to be saved. The bible says you believe on Jesus to be saved . Thats a big difference.

And the Bhagavad Gita says Krishna proclaims he is the only way:

"At many places in the Bhagavad Gita, Lord Krishna said about His oneness with God:

"I am the way, come to Me…Neither the multitude of gods nor great sages knows my origin, for I am the source of all the gods and great sages." In the Holy Bible, Jesus also utters the same in his Gospels: "I am the way and the truth and ..."

Similarities Between the Lives and Teachings of Christ and Krishna

Perhaps you didn't know that the writers of John's gospel stole that "I am the way" from Krishna written hundreds of years earlier. Are they both the way or is Krishna the only way? Or do you say "The Bible is right and the Bhagavad Gita is false." If so, where do you get the temerity to say "This religion is false and my religion is right" when Jesus' theft has just been demonstrated to you?

 

[KerimF]

Jesus never died on the Cross in the first place, so he was the same human as before, that is the reason he had to move secretly, please. Right?
Regards

I assume, you are not sure yet about what you learnt from Jesus teachings.
But, on the other hand, it seems very clear that you are very sure about what happened to him concerning the death of his body. So I wonder if it is possible for me to also read he story of Jesus as presented in your world. But I also understand if it is confidential.
Thank you.

 

[Windwalker]

Some seem to object to the exclusive claims of Christianity. That the Gospel is the ONLY way ,that Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven ,that by believing that he died for all our sins , was buried and rose again . That this alone is the only option there is to heaven and eternal life .

To be clear, this is your opinion of what the Bible teaches. It is not the opinion of other Christians. Personally, I do not think saying that only Christianity is the only way to God, is good news at all. It's pretty terrible news for those who can't swallow what is presented as Christianity to them by fundamentalist preachers. I do not believe the path to God is fundamentalism. Only fundamentalists think that. They insert themselves between God and humans, claiming they speak for the Christ.

But I believe all our claims are exclusive .Even the claim ' all roads lead to the same God " claim ,this is exclusive and rules out the individual claim of another .

You're playing bad semantics here. Exclusivism means something specific when it comes to Christian views. It contrasts with inclusivism and with pluralism within Christian beliefs: Exclusivism - Wikipedia

Religious exclusivism, one of the three classic typologies created by Alan Race in order to describe religions relative to one another, states that one religion, to the exclusion of all others, has the correct understanding of God, truth and salvation and eternal paradise is contingent on one's belief in the core tenets of that religion. Diana Eck states, ‘Exclusivism is more than simply a conviction about the transformative power of the particular vision one has; it is a conviction about its finality and its absolute priority over competing views’.[1]

While it was originally used to define Christianity, exclusivism can apply to any religious belief system, as can Race’s other two categories inclusivism and pluralism. In his 1982 Christians and Religious Pluralism, Race defined pluralism as all religions being equally beneficial, with no single religion dominating. Inclusivism attempts to straddle the poles of pluralism and exclusivism by agreeing with the latter that one religion (Christianity) has the most value, and agreeing with the former by stating that other religions still have significant value.[2] While Race’s three categories have been criticized, amended and refuted, most religious studies and interfaith scholars and students find the typologies useful as a starting point for conversations about the diversity of religions.[3]
​

So we're going to set aside playing games with the word "exclusive" here, and go with these typologies, as that is a meaningful discussion. If you want to twist words around to make them fit, and lose these distinctions, then you have no legitimate argument worth anyone's time to listen to.

Often its made to sound ' tolerant ' ( The new fashionable, buzz word )
" All truth is relative " again, another exclusive truth claim.
" Thats true for you , but not true for me " hmmm lol ?
I used to believe that all religions were just ' sign posts ' to the same goal . Just different ways to express or reach the same goal " Again this is a exclusive claim.
Thoughts?

Again, you are playing semantic games here. This is not meaningful. It's only making you believe you are right, without actually understanding the actual distinctions that make meaningful conversation.

 

[KerimF]

And the Bhagavad Gita says Krishna proclaims he is the only way:

"At many places in the Bhagavad Gita, Lord Krishna said about His oneness with God:

"I am the way, come to Me…Neither the multitude of gods nor great sages knows my origin, for I am the source of all the gods and great sages." In the Holy Bible, Jesus also utters the same in his Gospels: "I am the way and the truth and ..."

Similarities Between the Lives and Teachings of Christ and Krishna

Perhaps you didn't know that the writers of John's gospel stole that "I am the way" from Krishna written hundreds of years earlier. Are they both the way or is Krishna the only way? Or do you say "The Bible is right and the Bhagavad Gita is false." If so, where do you get the temerity to say "This religion is false and my religion is right" when the theft has just been demonstrated to you?

Actually, anyone can claim being the Way.
But can anyone reveal the crucial natural truths concerning life and the real world in order to answer clearly and logically all important questions that a human being may look for?

We like it or not, the common weakness with which all human babies have to be born... is ignorance.
And a person cannot be real free if he couldn't answer all his important questions about his own existence and how the world runs in reality (on the ground, not as presented by great speeches and stories).

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Actually, anyone can claim being the Way.
But can anyone reveal the crucial natural truths concerning life and the real world in order to answer clearly and logically all important questions that a human being may look for?

We like it or not, the common weakness with which all human babies have to be born... is ignorance.
And a person cannot be real free if he couldn't answer all his important questions about his own existence and how the world runs in reality (on the ground, not as presented by great speeches and stories).

True, but I was pointing out to Barry that Jesus stole "I am the way" from Krishna. Therefore Jesus cannot be the way. Why would I believe someone who has to steal his most profound material from other gods?

 

[KerimF]

True, but I was pointing out to Barry that Jesus stole "I am the way" from Krishna. Therefore Jesus cannot be the way. Why would I believe someone who has to steal his most profound material from other gods?

By the way, I am just curious to know if Krishna also said I am the Light.
Thank you.