All roads lead to the same God ?

[KerimF]

I wish you'd go play your game somewhere else, honestly. This became boring fast.

You are right. Telling the truth hurts or at best is boring.
So I am sorry for not being able to please you

 

[blü 2]

Some seem to object to the exclusive claims of Christianity. That the Gospel is the ONLY way ,that Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven ,that by believing that he died for all our sins , was buried and rose again . That this alone is the only option there is to heaven and eternal life .
But I believe all our claims are exclusive .Even the claim ' all roads lead to the same God " claim ,this is exclusive and rules out the individual claim of another .
Often its made to sound ' tolerant ' ( The new fashionable, buzz word )
" All truth is relative " again, another exclusive truth claim.
" Thats true for you , but not true for me " hmmm lol ?
I used to believe that all religions were just ' sign posts ' to the same goal . Just different ways to express or reach the same goal " Again this is a exclusive claim.
Thoughts?

After much thought, this is how it appears to me ─

All supernatural beings, gods included, are human constructs, and exist only as concepts / things imagined in individual brains. The evidence for this is overwhelming ─ for example:

1. Gods are never found in reality, and never do or say in reality; the only source of gods is human stories.

2. Around the world we find an enormous variety of supernatural beings, each example supported by humans who believe in them, and each example distinguished from the others.

3. There is no definition of "god" appropriate to a real god, one who has objective existence, such that if we found a real candidate we could determine whether it was God (or a god) or not.

4. There is no clear concept of "godness", the real quality a real god would have and a real superscientist who could create universes, raise the dead, travel in time &c would lack.

5. There is no concept of the supernatural, miracles, the afterlife, the purpose or administration of heaven or hell, that has a factual basis.

And so on.

 

[Trailblazer]

Some seem to object to the exclusive claims of Christianity. That the Gospel is the ONLY way ,that Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven ,that by believing that he died for all our sins , was buried and rose again . That this alone is the only option there is to heaven and eternal life .
But I believe all our claims are exclusive .Even the claim ' all roads lead to the same God " claim ,this is exclusive and rules out the individual claim of another

All religious claims do not rule out the individual claims of another religion, they only rule them out if their claims contradict the claims of another religion.

Obviously the claim that Jesus is the Only Way rules out all other religions, but the claim that Jesus died for all our sins does not rule out the claims of other religions such as the Baha'i Faith who also believe this claim is true.

The claim that all the major religions lead to the same God does rule out the claims of the major religions that claim that not all religions lead to the same God.

 

[KerimF]

All supernatural beings, gods included, are human constructs, and exist only as concepts / things imagined in individual brains.

I agree totally with you if the image of a supernatural being, God included, is much like a powerful earthly king who looks for followers and slaves.

In reality, the real Creative Will/Energy doesn't need, for itself, anything from its tiny creatures, humans included.
I am afraid that talking now about the purpose of creating the temporary realm which is defined by time and space is off topic..
But this Creative Will/Energy (let us call it God) doesn't need imposing any rules (inspired via certain persons) on humans. As we know, in every living thing, man included (and all the living cells that form his body), there are instructions which are embedded by God so that they guide the living thing to play its role (or roles) for which it is created. So it doesn't matter how a person believes about how our universe was able to exist. He finds himself following his instincts (and talents) to play the roles for which he was created. Among these roles are playing the masters and obedient followers (known as slaves in the past). Naturally, the concept of a supernatural ruling king helps a lot in playing the master. So I am not surprised that there are many different images of a ruling god that are offered on the world's table. In fact, in every region, masters have to create a ruling god who suits best the culture(s) of their common people (inherited from one generation to another). But since humans evolve new modern notions had to be created too for the same purpose (this is also another topic).

I mean that, in this respect, the title of this thread is somehow true and real... Yes, all formal religious roads lead to a ruling god who needs to be worshiped, praised and obeyed; otherwise the natural earthly game of masters/slaves (pre-programmed by God) cannot be played properly, mainly in the far past (when the art of politics wasn't evolved enough).

 

[RabbiO]

Actual Jews ? Actual Jews teach at our Church . Believing Jews who have accepted Jesus as their messiah.

 

[blü 2]

I agree totally with you if the image of a supernatural being, God included, is much like a powerful earthly king who looks for followers and slaves.

No, my distinction is between purely conceptual / imaginary beings, ones found only in individual brains, as distinct from beings with objective existence, those found in the world external to the self (aka nature, the realm of the physical sciences, &c).

In reality, the real Creative Will/Energy doesn't need, for itself, anything from its tiny creatures, humans included.

In what manner does this "Will/ Energy" exist, then? If it's not physical, something found in nature, then it can ONLY be conceptual / imaginary, no?

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Some seem to object to the exclusive claims of Christianity. That the Gospel is the ONLY way ,that Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven ,that by believing that he died for all our sins , was buried and rose again . That this alone is the only option there is to heaven and eternal life .
But I believe all our claims are exclusive .Even the claim ' all roads lead to the same God " claim ,this is exclusive and rules out the individual claim of another .
Often its made to sound ' tolerant ' ( The new fashionable, buzz word )
" All truth is relative " again, another exclusive truth claim.
" Thats true for you , but not true for me " hmmm lol ?
I used to believe that all religions were just ' sign posts ' to the same goal . Just different ways to express or reach the same goal " Again this is a exclusive claim.
Thoughts?

People have to come to understand that "Jesus being the only way" was a gimmick contrived by the church leaders to scare pagans into joining Christianity. If you can't persuade them to join through honest means you resort to lies like, "You're going to burn in fire for all eternity, and other trickery to get them.

 

[InChrist]

Is Jesus not God?
Is God not Eternal?

Out of all of eternity, Jesus spent 30 years as a mortal. Far less than the blink of an eye.
After a mere thirty years, Jesus returned to heaven.

"laid down his own life"? Really? Did He cease to exist?

"God sacrificed His only Son...". That's another "Really?" What sacrifice?

According to the scriptures, the Son became flesh, fully human, while still fully God. So His life was not “merely” 33 years, nor His death a minor inconvenience. He lived a real human life endured situations and hardships as any person and died a painful, brutal death on a Roman cross.
Yes, Jesus is alive, having conquered death to offer the opportunity for eternal life to you and me.
I doubt that we from a limited human perspective can comprehend the suffering and price Jesus, an eternal Being paid/pays for the sins of the world ....


“But in another sense, if we could step into eternity and view an eternal being such as the Son of God experiencing life---if we could see things from the vantage point of eternity---then we would perceive that a part of the eternal God must suffer forever, outside of time, because of human sin.”
Jesus' Death: Six Hours of Eternity on the Cross

 

[Trailblazer]

People have to come to understand that "Jesus being the only way" was a gimmick

Some people have come to understand that, but Christians have not come to understand that, as they believe that Jesus is the Only Way. Show me a Christian who does not believe that, and maybe they could become a Baha'i, since Baha'is have a great reverence for Jesus.

 

[joelr]

Some seem to object to the exclusive claims of Christianity. That the Gospel is the ONLY way ,that Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven ,that by believing that he died for all our sins , was buried and rose again . That this alone is the only option there is to heaven and eternal life .
But I believe all our claims are exclusive .Even the claim ' all roads lead to the same God " claim ,this is exclusive and rules out the individual claim of another .
Often its made to sound ' tolerant ' ( The new fashionable, buzz word )
" All truth is relative " again, another exclusive truth claim.
" Thats true for you , but not true for me " hmmm lol ?
I used to believe that all religions were just ' sign posts ' to the same goal . Just different ways to express or reach the same goal " Again this is a exclusive claim.
Thoughts?

Most religions are exclusive. Of course in Christianity you would have to follow the tenants of that scripture. Like several other religions of that time Christianity had a savior demigod who through baptism gets members into the afterlife.
Souls belonging in heaven was not part of Judaism until they were exposed to the ideas by the Greek and Persian invasions and messianic saviors were around as far back as 1500 BC in the Persian religion.
Each religion has it's own exclusive claims but seems to be built on stories from prior religions.
There is a modern movement to say they all lead to this one God but that just doesn't make sense at all.

 

[John1.12]

All paths do lead to God, even those paths outside of religion. It's about Discovering, Learning, and Growing instead of mere Believing and Hoping.

God is very very Smart. God's system will make sure everyone makes it regardless of their choices. There are no limits to lessons and lives. One can span any path even taking baby steps since there is no time limit on learning.

///That's what I see. It's very clear!!

All paths do lead to God, even those paths outside of religion/// Again, this is an exclusive truth claim . Islam for example says otherwise , Jehovah’s witnesses, Mormons . Each claims they are the truth .Your claim doesn't allow for Jehovah's_Witnesses, for example, to be the only true way ,the only true organisation that speaks for God . They say they are the only true followers of God . The only true disciples ect. Just with these few examples ,logically your view cannot be true .

//
even those paths outside of religion//

Christianity says that unbelievers will not be with God ,they will not be in heaven and not have eternal life ,unless they recieve Jesus ,as the text says in ( John 1.12 ) . The bible does not say other religions are equally valid and their practices are godly . The bible says that behind false religion is superstition at best and demonic at worst . That false spirits seduce people away from Jesus to follow other gods, who are not real but the spirits behind them deceive. The bible says all those found not in Christ will be judged and cast into the lake of fire . There is no logical way that your claim could be true.

 

[John1.12]

Some people have come to understand that, but Christians have not come to understand that, as they believe that Jesus is the Only Way. Show me a Christian who does not believe that, and maybe they could become a Baha'i, since Baha'is have a great reverence for Jesus.

A Christian believes that Jesus is the only way ,because that's what Jesus said. Just as you believe what your text/ guru says . They are both contradictory to each other . That means one is false, or both. But Just with these two options, the idea that all roads lead to the same truth / God is clearly false.

 

[Trailblazer]

A Christian believes that Jesus is the only way ,because that's what Jesus said. Just as you believe what your text/ guru says . They are both contradictory to each other . That means one is false, or both. But Just with these two options, the idea that all roads lead to the same truth / God is clearly false.

Jesus was the only way back when the Bible was written, but time marches on and so do God's revelations.
The caveat is that Jesus when Jesus said He was the only way to the Father He was only referring to His dispensation.

Dispensation

1. the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
2. an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
3. a divinely appointed order or age:

e.g. the old Mosaic, or Jewish, dispensation; the new gospel, or Christian, dispensation.

Definition of dispensation | Dictionary.com

Jesus never said He was the only way to the Father for all time. That is what Christians have never understood, but Baha'u'llah explained it so now we know.

We are now living in the Dispensation of Baha'u'llah so Baha'u'llah is the way to the Father. I am not saying that Baha'u'llah is the only way, but according to Baha'u'llah He is the way God wants us to utilize to come to the Father in this age.

 

[John1.12]

Most religions are exclusive. Of course in Christianity you would have to follow the tenants of that scripture. Like several other religions of that time Christianity had a savior demigod who through baptism gets members into the afterlife.
Souls belonging in heaven was not part of Judaism until they were exposed to the ideas by the Greek and Persian invasions and messianic saviors were around as far back as 1500 BC in the Persian religion.
Each religion has it's own exclusive claims but seems to be built on stories from prior religions.
There is a modern movement to say they all lead to this one God but that just doesn't make sense at all.

// There is a modern movement to say they all lead to this one God but that just doesn't make sense at all.// I agree with this .

 

[John1.12]

Jesus was the only way back when the Bible was written, but time marches on and so do God's revelations.
The caveat is that Jesus when Jesus said He was the only way to the Father He was only referring to His dispensation.

Dispensation

1. the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
2. an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
3. a divinely appointed order or age:

e.g. the old Mosaic, or Jewish, dispensation; the new gospel, or Christian, dispensation.

Definition of dispensation | Dictionary.com

Jesus never said He was the only way to the Father for all time. That is what Christians have never understood, but Baha'u'llah explained it so now we know.

We are now living in the Dispensation of Baha'u'llah so Baha'u'llah is the way to the Father. I am not saying that Baha'u'llah is the only way, but according to Baha'u'llah He is the way God wants us to utilize to come to the Father in this age.

//Jesus was the only way back when the Bible was written, but time marches on and so do God's revelations.//
However this is not possible according to the bible. Mormons also have done this thats why we have Mormonism today, because they also say that we have modern day Propherts and Apostles and extra revelation ( The BOM , Pearl of great price , DOC ect books )

 

[John1.12]

People have to come to understand that "Jesus being the only way" was a gimmick contrived by the church leaders to scare pagans into joining Christianity. If you can't persuade them to join through honest means you resort to lies like, "You're going to burn in fire for all eternity, and other trickery to get them.

Or its true and there's no other way of saying it . Jesus being the only way ,is literally what the bible says . And you don't Join a church building / establishment/ organisation to be saved. The bible says you believe on Jesus to be saved . Thats a big difference.

 

[John1.12]

All religious claims do not rule out the individual claims of another religion, they only rule them out if their claims contradict the claims of another religion.

Obviously the claim that Jesus is the Only Way rules out all other religions, but the claim that Jesus died for all our sins does not rule out the claims of other religions such as the Baha'i Faith who also believe this claim is true.

The claim that all the major religions lead to the same God does rule out the claims of the major religions that claim that not all religions lead to the same God.

Yes thats my point . All religions are contradicting each other on who God is , what he has done and how salvation is appropriated. They are completely incompatible. You cannot be a 'Muslim Christian ' and be consistent, or logical.

 

[John1.12]

All supernatural beings, gods included, are human constructs, and exist only as concepts / things imagined in individual brains. The evidence for this is overwhelming ─ for example:

1. Gods are never found in reality, and never do or say in reality; the only source of gods is human stories.

2. Around the world we find an enormous variety of supernatural beings, each example supported by humans who believe in them, and each example distinguished from the others.

3. There is no definition of "god" appropriate to a real god, one who has objective existence, such that if we found a real candidate we could determine whether it was God (or a god) or not.

4. There is no clear concept of "godness", the real quality a real god would have and a real superscientist who could create universes, raise the dead, travel in time &c would lack.

5. There is no concept of the supernatural, miracles, the afterlife, the purpose or administration of heaven or hell, that has a factual basis.

And so on.

///All supernatural beings, gods included, are human constructs/// Thats a heavy presupposition (Which of course your entitled to ) I would have to change my mind on this ,if I believed this way ,in order for any investigation of any truth claim ,because this would hinder my mind on things ,before I even glanced at the claims . Many try read the bible this way are wearing a set of glasses. Usually given to them from others .

 

[John1.12]

Jesus was the only way back when the Bible was written, but time marches on and so do God's revelations.
The caveat is that Jesus when Jesus said He was the only way to the Father He was only referring to His dispensation.

Dispensation

1. the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
2. an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
3. a divinely appointed order or age:

e.g. the old Mosaic, or Jewish, dispensation; the new gospel, or Christian, dispensation.

Definition of dispensation | Dictionary.com

Jesus never said He was the only way to the Father for all time. That is what Christians have never understood, but Baha'u'llah explained it so now we know.

We are now living in the Dispensation of Baha'u'llah so Baha'u'llah is the way to the Father. I am not saying that Baha'u'llah is the only way, but according to Baha'u'llah He is the way God wants us to utilize to come to the Father in this age.

I just read this morning, a source from God, thats just been revealed today ,that Baha'u'llah was just a test , really the truth is on page 10 , Just follow those new instructions now.
. Sorry ,Gods just revealed ,what can you do eh ?

 

[John1.12]

All religious claims do not rule out the individual claims of another religion, they only rule them out if their claims contradict the claims of another religion.

Obviously the claim that Jesus is the Only Way rules out all other religions, but the claim that Jesus died for all our sins does not rule out the claims of other religions such as the Baha'i Faith who also believe this claim is true.

The claim that all the major religions lead to the same God does rule out the claims of the major religions that claim that not all religions lead to the same God.

//but the claim that Jesus died for all our sins does not rule out the claims of other religions such as the Baha'i Faith who also believe this claim is true.// Believing that Jesus died for our sins is correct.
1 cor 1.15
1¶Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3¶For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

When it says ' according to the Scriptures ' Its referring to the bible . So its the Jesus of the bible, as described in the bible , the One who is the creator of all things, the one who died and rose again . The object of our faith is critical. It has to be in the biblical Jesus alone .