All roads lead to the same God ?

[Rival]

You are right there is no one Paganism.
Do you mean some pagans don't have one or more idols to worship, praise and obey?
Thank you.

I mean some Pagans may believe one needs to believe in their God or Gods to be 'saved' (not a concept in any Pagan path I know, but using it because you did) and some may not believe this. Others, like myself, may just believe one needs to behave well and do good deeds.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What about polytheistic religions?

I'm sure that @Meandflower has some way to also ignore what these religions actually believe and to shoehorn them into her predetermined paradigm, too.

 

[Starlight]

What about polytheistic religions?

In reality God is only one (my belief). God has many attributes and powers. But many polyteistic religions worship many gods with different qualites and powers. They worship for example one love god, one strenght god. one feritily god.

So instead of worship only one God who has all divine qualites and all powers they have turned the different powers and attributes of the one God to many gods with different powers and attributes

So in a symbolic way the many polyteistic gods is the different attributes and powers of the one God

 

[Starlight]

I'm sure that @Meandflower has some way to also ignore what these religions actually believe and to shoehorn them into her predetermined paradigm, too.

No i do not ignore polyteistic religions.

 

[Rival]

Wrong. The one God of the universe/universes is behind almost all religions. People from different religions call God different names, and they understand and explain God in different ways but they all is pointing to the same God. God who is the source of this exsistence.

In reality God is only one (my belief). God has many attributes and powers. But many polyteistic religions worship many gods with different qualites and powers. They worship for example one love god, one strenght god. one feritily god.
So instead of worship only one God who has all divine qualites and all powers they have turnet the different powers and attributes of the one God to many gods with different powers and attributes

So in a symbolic way the many polyteistic gods is the different attributes and powers of the one God

So your belief doesn't account for polytheism.

That's fine.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No i do not ignore polyteistic religions.

I didn't say you did. I said you ignore their beliefs... as you do for monotheistic religions.

 

[PureX]

Keep in mind that this "road" analogy is referring to our internal ignorance of God, not any actual distance that must be traversed. God is everywhere. So no actual "roads" or paths or courses of action are required. And the analogy, then, is about gaining some sort of internal understanding and/or alignment with God. Which is, in most instances, the purpose of religion.

However, if God is bigger than any religion, as nearly every religion will attest, then religions are not the only way to gain that understanding and alignment with God. Nature (creation), for example, could also provide us a way. So could engaging in the arts, I think. So could engaging in philosophy. And in fact we do see instances of these alternative means of gaining spiritual awakening and awareness for people.

It would be unwise, I think, to put God in the box of any religious ideology as that only 'narrows the gate' instead of broadening it.

 

[John1.12]

One possible reason you're saying that is because that's the impression you've gotten so far from what you've read so far. Another possible reason is that you've espoused certain beliefs and you will defend those beliefs no matter what. Are you interested in examining this topic with me?

absolutely..fire away .

 

[KerimF]

I mean some Pagans may believe one needs to believe in their God or Gods to be 'saved' (not a concept in any Pagan path I know, but using it because you did) and some may not believe this. Others, like myself, may just believe one needs to behave well and do good deeds.

Since you don't believe that faith alone (in fact, just having faith in Science doesn't make someone a real scientist), you are surely not a formal Pagan (or a formal Christian). But I still wonder to how far you can behave well and do good deeds... I mean; how do you know that you are doing this, properly?
I am afraid that good and evil are man-made notions and are always relative to the observer. For example, if a soldier, serving a ruling system, loves his enemies (Jesus is very clear about this sort of love) he is seen by his masters as being a traitor (evil), but killing or hurting them badly lets him deserve being a brave hero. Am I talking nonsense?
Thank you.

 

[Rival]

Since you don't believe that faith alone (in fact, just having faith in Science doesn't make someone a real scientist), you are surely not a formal Pagan (or a formal Christian). But I still wonder to how far you can behave well and do good deeds... I mean; how do you know that you are doing this, properly?
I am afraid that good and evil are man-made notions and are always relative to the observer. For example, if a soldier, serving a ruling system, loves his enemies (Jesus is very clear about this sort of love) he is seen by his masters as being a traitor (evil), but killing or hurting them badly lets him deserve being a brave hero. Am I talking nonsense?
Thank you.

I am a Pagan and you don't get to define my religion for me. My religion defines good and evil. Humans create societies where we define good and evil. Even if it doesn't exist objectively, we have intentions that are known to God.

 

[Starlight]

So your belief doesn't account for polytheism.

That's fine.

Polyteism is also a path to God. I believe God do not care so much if people worship many gods. Why? Because God understand that some people believe many gods created the universe/universes instead of one God. And the polytheists worship the gods and thank them for this life, food, wealth.

And since the polytheist worship the gods and thanks the gods, then God know they are grateful to him and love him. They have just misunderstood that in reality it is only one God that created them.

I believe in one God/source/spirit of the universe. And maybe God in reality is many Gods. Maybe i am wrong. But i do not believe that. I think One source of the universe is more logical than many sources of the universe.

But yes my belief do account for polyteists. Why? Because people try to understand and get a realationship with the source/spirit/God/gods of the universe. Some people (polytheist) believe this source is many sources (many gods). And some people (monotheists) believe this source is one source (one God)

So all religious people (both polytheist and monotheist) try to understand the source/sources/God/gods of the universe. We just believe different about if this source/sources is just one or many.

So yes, polyteistic religions to lead to God.

 

[Starlight]

I didn't say you did. I said you ignore their beliefs... as you do for monotheistic religions.

No i do not. You are very wrong.

Polyteism is also a path to God. I believe God do not care so much if people worship many gods. Why? Because God understand that some people believe many gods created the universe/universes instead of one God. And the polytheists worship the gods and thank them for this life, food, wealth.

And since the polytheist worship the gods and thanks the gods, then God know they are grateful to him and love him. They have just misunderstood that in reality it is only one God that created them.

I believe in one God/source/spirit of the universe. And maybe God in reality is many Gods. Maybe i am wrong. But i do not believe that. I think One source of the universe is more logical than many sources of the universe.

But yes my belief do account for polyteists. Why? Because people try to understand and get a realationship with the source/spirit/God/gods of the universe. Some people (polytheist) believe this source is many sources (many gods). And some people (monotheists) believe this source is one source (one God)

So all religious people (both polytheist and monotheist) try to understand the source/sources/God/gods of the universe. We just believe different about if this source/sources is just one or many.

So yes, polyteistic religions to lead to God.

 

[Starlight]

I mean some Pagans may believe one needs to believe in their God or Gods to be 'saved' (not a concept in any Pagan path I know, but using it because you did) and some may not believe this. Others, like myself, may just believe one needs to behave well and do good deeds.

Do you still believe in one God or do you believe in many gods now?

 

[Rival]

Do you still believe in one God or do you believe in many gods now?

1 with many Aspects.

 

[KerimF]

I am a Pagan and you don't get to define my religion for me. My religion defines good and evil. Humans create societies where we define good and evil. Even if it doesn't exist objectively, we have intentions that are known to God.

Thank you for your clarification. Please forgive my ignorance.
If I understood you well, it seems that there are also religions (besides Judaism, Islam and 'formal' Christianity) that also have an 'absolute' list of what is good and evil.
After all, in human history, Jesus only didn't bring to the world such a list of actions to observe or rules to obey. His message is simply about living the Unconditional Love towards all others, friends and enemies.
Naturally, most people in the world cannot, even if they want to, apply this Love/Care towards all others in their life. But this doesn't prevent billions of people (formal Christians) seeing in Jesus an Idol to be worshiped, praised and obeyed (by following their Church's teachings) with the hope that their submission will lead them into the Realm of God in their afterlife.

 

[Rival]

Thank you for your clarification. Please forgive my ignorance.
If I understood you well, it seems that there are also religions (besides Judaism, Islam and 'formal' Christianity) that also have an 'absolute' list of what is good and evil.
After all, in human history, Jesus only didn't bring to the world such a list of actions to observe or rules to obey. His message is simply about living the Unconditional Love towards all others, friends and enemies.
Naturally, most people in the world cannot, even if they want to, apply this Love/Care towards all others in their life. But this doesn't prevent billions of people (formal Christians) seeing in Jesus an Idol to be worshiped, praised and obeyed (by following their Church's teachings) with the hope that will lead them into the Realm of God in their afterlife.

I find it weird that you call Jesus an idol.

 

[Rival]

Kemetic 42 Declarations of Innocence,

1. I have not done evil.
2. I have not been a coward.
3. I have not raped or molested.
4. I have not stolen.
5. I have not murdered.
6. I have not defrauded the temple.
7. I have not been deceitful toward allies, leaders, family or friends.
8. I have not been sacrilegious in thought or deed.
9. I have not lied to those who deserve the truth.
10. I have not deprived the less fortunate.
11. I have not uttered evil words.
12. I have not attacked the righteous.
13. I have not turned away from natural procreation.
14. I have not become overcome with anguish or grief.
15. I have not harmed the land or the animals thereon.
16. I have not spied against the people.
17. I have not spoken against the sacred teachings.
18. I have not been undisciplined.
19. I have not been an adulterer, homosexual or child molester.
20. I have not harmed myself.
21. I have not violated sacred times.
22. I have not allowed myself to be abused.
23. I have not surrendered to the enemy.
24. I have not stopped my ears from the words of right and wrong.
25. I have not been disobedient.
26. I have not presented a false image of myself to loved ones.
27. I have not lain with a child, animal, an enemy of my people, or others of my sex.
28. I have not used ignorance to confront the ignorant.
29. I have not abused children, the elderly, the infirmed, or my spouse.
30. I have not been lazy.
31. I have not been impatient.
32. I have not deviated from the teachings.
33. I have not multiplied my speech overmuch.
34. I have not pondered evil, impure or harmful thoughts.
35. I have not betrayed my leaders or my people.
36. I have not fouled the water.
37. I have not been contemptuous or patronizing.
38. I have not been passive.
39. I have not been arrogant or boastful.
40. I have not been self-serving.
41. I have not been greedy.
42. I have not given in to my lower nature.

 

[metis]

Some seem to object to the exclusive claims of Christianity. That the Gospel is the ONLY way ,that Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven ,that by believing that he died for all our sins , was buried and rose again .

And exactly how is it that you know this with certainty? Are you omniscient?

 

[John1.12]

I believe Jesus is the way. But, I think this is not so simple matter as one could first think. Jesus is the way, because Jesus is the one who decides or determines what is required. This doesn’t necessary mean that people who have not heard of him don’t have any chance. Jesus has told the key to eternal life is righteousness.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

It is possible that person who has not heard of Jesus can be counted righteous by this:

For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without the law. As many as have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it isn't the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be justified (for when Gentiles who don't have the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying with them, and their thoughts among themselves accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.
Romans 2:12-16

So, it may be that person living in a different culture has that right understanding, wisdom of the just, and he ca be counted righteous and have eternal life.

Every single human has to go through one way. That way is ' believing the Gospel.
21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

22For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
For those who respond to the Holy spirit .
John 7
7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9Of sin, because they believe not on me;


And or call upon God . Creation all around us screams ' creator ' , our conscience can cause us to seek God . I believe if a person is seeking God / calling out to him ect God will see to it a person is sent to preach the Gospel to him . Even through dreams and vision. This may be the case if someone is in a remote part of the world ect . Whilst all these things may happen its still the responsibility to respond to this and believe the Gospel for salvation .
In the case of God responding to a person seeking God we can read Acts 10 with Cornelius.

 

[John1.12]

And exactly how is it that you know this with certainty? Are you omniscient?

The bible.