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Do all paths lead to God? No is the answer
- Thread starter Starlight
- Start date
Do you think there’s a difference?
The Sum of Awe
Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
I think God knew exactly what He intended creation to be, and that it's impossible for the universe to move outside of His expectations.
The Sum of Awe
Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Evil is just a word we humans use to describe something that's inconvenient from a certain perspective. Beyond the concepts of good and evil, nature is just nature. Humans are part of nature. Even if the human race were to collapse to a pandemic, even if the human race were to become controlled by a fascist dictator that commanded the slaughter of millions, even if a little cult of religious extremists began beheading people: it's all part of the plan in some way or another. God knows what He's doing.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
If god is all light, why would anyone want darkness?
What's the value of darkness and benefit if god is all light by nature, love, and all of that?
In one of the first chapters of the Bible — Genesis 3, to be exact — we’re told why God isn’t stepping in, right now. If you read the account and think about it with an open mind, you’ll see that Jehovah God’s sovereignty was challenged, and the only way for the issue to be settled, was to let mankind rule themselves without His intervention, to make their own rules & do their own thing. That would take time! Although, He did foretell a “Seed” in Genesis 3:15, which would be “bruised in the heal”, prophesying the Messiah....Jehovah protected & intervened in the nation (the Israelites) which was chosen to produce him, but Jehovah hasn’t interfered or stepped in other group’s affairs... only in protecting the Messianic line, until he (Jesus) arrived.
When those issues were raised in the G of E, Jehovah knew He would have to limit His interaction with mankind... but He didn’t leave those who trusted in Him completely; that’s why He’s given us His Word, a ‘letter from a loving Father’, which can guide our steps, if we let it. (Proverbs 3:5-6) And it provides other information we need, That’s why those who worship Jehovah grasp why He’s not stopping bad things from happening right now.
But soon, He will step in: God has set an “appointed time “ when He will bring justice and set matters straight.— Revelation 11:18; Ephesians 1:10
We’re to pray for “Thy will” to be “done on Earth”. Matthew 6:9-10 That means it’s not being done now. And hasn’t been since A&E’s creation. So when you think about it, that makes God the most patient Being ever.
The universe apart from sentient, intelligent life, yes.
But as creatures that are sentient, we have Free will, which is the ability to make our own decisions, ones that Jehovah God doesn’t approve of. Why does the Bible say about the ancient Israelites, “they pained the Holy one” (Psalms 78:41), if that weren’t the case? (To quote from an ‘Indiana Jones’ film, they “chose poorly”, lol.) God isn’t a Sado-masochist, intentionally inflicting pain on himself.
Bird123
Well-Known Member
I can not agree with you. Lessons are not taught. Lessons are Learned. We are all Living our Lessons.
First, free choice is a Big part of God's system. If one is not free, one will choose the opposite one is forced to do once one is free, just to discover the other side. Imposing or controlling will is a mistake and is not God's way. You want your free will. Don't others deserve as much?
If one chooses hate, what happens? Hate returns to show one what hate really is. If one chooses violence, what happens? Violence returns to show one what violence really is. If one chooses kindness, goodness, and love, what happens? These things also return to show one what they are. When one understands all sides, Intelligence will make the Best choices.
Which are the best choices? God's system will show you. It has never been religion.
I would be very careful teaching justice. You might just find yourself teaching payback and revenge. Is this really what anyone wants returning to their door??
Unconditional Love always does what is Best for the other. Instead of payback, revenge, punishment or attempting to alter the actions of others through pain, one should work at fixing the problems,understanding the underlying causes of them, and working toward resolution.
Sure, protect yourself and others, however if you solve the real problems, they will not return as they do today. Problems will never be gone until they are completely solved. The learning is in the journey. The acquired knowledge insures the problems will never be a problem again.
Choose your Path!! They will all lead to God. On the other hand, try to make your very Best choices. One does choose how bumpy the road will be. Make the choices that you want others to choose for you. If you do, you will always be happy with what returns.
It doesn't matter what everyone else does. It's what you choose to do that counts. No one can guaranty the actions of another, however we can control our own actions.
Unconditional Love really is the only Intelligent choice to make.
That's what I see. It's very clear!!
McBell
Resident Sourpuss
How did this design come to be?
The Sum of Awe
Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
I find it hard to believe that something as clever as God would create a plot device (the tree of knowledge) with no intent for it to come into play (man rebelling and taking of its fruits). It seems to me that God definitely intended mankind to eat the apple, His sovereignty was never challenged because it simply cannot be challenged. It is all part of a plan.
I don't understand how you come to interpret that verse as the foretelling of a Messiah, but regardless I understand that there is a foretelling of a Messiah in Christianity and so that alone stands to reason that God has a plan and it must've been part of the original plan, as He is the creator of the universe and knows all that was to happen - including the "fall" of man.
I'm not sure how the Bible puts it, but I'm not largely convinced the Bible is anything short of the imaginings of mankind anyways - but if there is an end game to everything, even if it's the return of the Messiah, it seems to me that everything that's happening now would be steps leading up to that moment. Everything is on the Path to God in that sense.
Why God would disapprove of anything He created? I disagree with the idea that we can act outside of God's will, or do things that God doesn't like, because it would mean God doesn't know what He was (is) doing in creating this world. God, in my opinion, isn't something that doesn't know things.
What is there to support this claim?
As I quoted from Psalms , the Israelites hurt / pained Jehovah. Genesis reveals the regret Jehovah had w/ the way men were acting before the flood, it hurt Him.
So you believe God likes being hurt?
What is Free will, to you?
What did God mean at Deuteronomy 32:4-5?
What happened with the Ninevite Assyrians, in Jonah’s day? God basically told the Ninevites, ‘I will destroy you.’ Definitive! He didn’t have Jonah tell them, ‘If you repent, I won’t.’ Their destruction was going to happen!
But they turned around, and God relented. — Jonah 3:10
When someone knows what’s going to happen, they never relent.
In Genesis 18, we find Jehovah God didn’t know the extent of Sodom’s badness. He told Abraham, recorded at vs21, “I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”
Sounds like Jehovah didn’t know for sure.
You see, when it comes to His intelligent creatures, He respects their Free Will, their ability to choose how to act. They will have to reap the consequences of their actions, of course — we all do — but God won’t interfere.... at least until those issues raised in the Garden of Eden are settled.
Yes, God knows how certain things will turn out — what results from particular actions — but He doesn’t necessarily know who will perform those actions. I said “necessarily “, because He can read our hearts though, and He knows our inclinations, but ultimately we have the control over ourselves, not God.
A perfect example of this, is the incident with Cain, before he murdered Abel. God spoke w/ him, told him where such actions would lead... tried to get Cain to think, but Jehovah didn’t stop him.
Now consider, would God have even tried, if Cain was ‘gonna do it anyway’?
That would make no sense.
Take care, my cousin.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
This world could not exist without light and dark. It simply couldn’t be.
I don’t know what the plan is. But I trust in the light.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
Who knows? Many things are beyond our understanding. It is what it is;
be still, and know that I am God (Psalm 46)
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
It would be if people didn't want darkness. But when I say why not be with god without the dark to me it seems they are so comfortable with dark they can't see life without it.
What would they do in an all light world?
(Makes me think maybe that's why lucifer wanted to split. Like others, he just can't live with just the light. He needed freedom to sin.)
If you get my insight
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RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
John Milton’s Lucifer thought it “better to reign in hell, than serve in heaven.” So yeah, in that reworking of the creation story (Paradise Lost), he certainly chose darkness, and chose to remain in it even after the fall. His pride wouldn’t allow him to submit to God, he wanted to replace God.
Perhaps there is hope even for Lucifer though; his name means Light Bringer, after all. And he’s associated with the morning star.
Starlight
Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
Common sense
My own view is that kindness, fairness, decency and inclusion are good qualities for humans to have and to value, regardless of anyone's views about religion. And that for people of that view, those qualities are their own reward, a contribution to the living world, regardless of whether there is or isn't life after death.
But on the essentials we don't seem to be too far apart.
My own observation is that people tend to find the God they're looking for. There's a God that votes for Trump and hankers to own a private jet and writes furious letters when it's proposed to increase the minimum hourly wage in the US to double figures. There's a God whose followers are the only ones going to heaven and everyone else is going to hell and you can look down on them through the viewing windows provided. There's a God who hates Muslims, who hates Christians, who hates Jews, who hates Hindus, who hates whoever it is you hate and assures you yours is the true and holy view.
And then, God or not, there's decency and kindness and inclusion if you're that kind of person.
Yes.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Though I find it odd why one would want darkness to see the light. That's like let me experience trauma to get to spiritual awakening. If you all object to no darkness on earth why/how would you be comfortable with such in a heaven (per context)?