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Does your belief / religion ect offer a better deal ?

Psalm23

Well-Known Member
What's the P&P from here to eternity?

In my own faith as a Christian I have struggled with this kind of thing. Basically questioning is there a catch, something I’m missing or misunderstood to be secure for eternity? Now I am trusting God to see me through that his grace is enough and his love is enough. In faith, there is always a jump/step into the unknown. Otherwise, it wouldn’t be faith.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Well in a sense . What's on ' offer' by Jesus is a ' free gift ' . Thats why I offer this challenge, if you like . Because I don't see anything like this presented in any other truth claim/ religion . Every other religion is about what the individual has to do ,and keep doing .

By free gift do you mean anyone and everyone? No matter who you are, what you have done, what you are, everyone gets this free gift?
 

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
In my own faith as a Christian I have struggled with this kind of thing. Basically questioning is there a catch, something I’m missing or misunderstood to be secure for eternity? Now I am trusting God to see me through that his grace is enough and his love is enough. In faith, there is always a jump/step into the unknown. Otherwise, it wouldn’t be faith.
It is all any of us can do, I believe.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
requirements for your belief/ religion--immediate benefits/ results and its future promise.
whether or not said belief is true or not. I don't believe anyone can offer more than I already have ,as a bible believing Christian

God requires atonement.

Many Christians don't get it. They think that they only need belief that Jesus existed. For example, Mafia hit men (like all Mafioso) believe that there was a man named Jesus, and further believe that he could perform miracles, and believe that his ability to perform miracles came from the powers of God. Yet, though they believe in Jesus, they also believe that God will forgive them for anything. They even think that they can plot to kill someone later in the day and ask God for forgiveness before their heinous crime.

Forgiveness comes with a price tag. The price is atonement. Atonement means that one is sorry that one did a heinous act, and that one will strive to never do that again. Only the good get into heaven (or it would be a hellish place is this is not so). Who would want to go to a hellish place?

Christians are not allowed to judge.

"Judge not, lest ye be judged"--Jesus...Sermon on the Mount.

Only God may judge.

Yet, we must judge Satan in order to avoid Satan. That is, we must recognize his human form. We must also recognize those who are using Satan's tactics to gain unfair advantages or to create a Satanic hell here on earth.

Satan rules by fear, greed, and deception. Satan pretends to be God to gain followers. Satan wants to destroy God's wonderful creations (the environment, the beautiful souls of mankind).

So, how do we recognize Satan? Look for greed (politicians handing huge piles of money to the rich, so that they can get richer while hoards of homeless people freeze and starve....with the promise that someone economic benefits will TRICKLE down to the poor). Look for war and torture camps. God said thou shalt not kill. Revelation (chapter of the bible) said that we must not attack Babylon, Iraq, or face God's wrath (such as Revelation 15 (seven plagues, of which COVID is undoubtedly one)). Look for diseases. Look for a lack of compassion as the needy continue to need. Look for environmental destruction (logging roads into pristine forests, funds to clear brush removed which cause vast forest fires, extinct species).

If you want to find Satan, look for a lack of humility (not humble) while the rich get richer, the poor suffer, the world is embroiled in unnecessary wars, diseases ravage the world, and fires destroy our forests, and our animals permanently die off (whole species dead).

This is what you already have (war, starvation, fires, diseases), and you say that you don't think that anyone can offer you more than this (Satan's tribulations).

It isn't enough to believe in Jesus. You must atone. You must do the things that Jesus would have done. Jesus would have tended to the poor, the infirm, the hungry.

In order to have the blessings of Jesus, you must make sure that your elected politicians do Christian things (no wars, tend the poor, help the environment, don't lie). Instead, we got politicians who pretend to be on the side of Jesus, they tell us (brag) that they are humble. They tell us that they are "fightin' evil" and "fightin' the Axis of Evil." But obviously they kill in their wars, and their wars are started without evidence of terrorism, and they make torture camps.

In order to vote for Christians, we have to judge that they are Christian. Judge not lest ye be judged.....so how do we judge politicians without becoming judgemental? We always must recognize Satan. We must recognize phony Orange Alerts that were designed to lie us into wars, otherwise, we follow Satan. We must judge Satan and his minions or risk supporting them.

Smugly, some Christians tell the world that there is no finer religion, but they cannot be humble while bragging. Nor can they claim that they have the best faith if their faith is not following the teachings of Jesus (helping the poor, not lying, not killing).


The world is a mess (COVID, economic collapse, fires, pollution, global warming, homelessness). Don't brag that you have the best belief while ignoring all of that.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I don't believe anyone can offer more than I already have ,as a bible believing Christian . Not immediately or in the future.
So, you have no intention of growing within the faith? You know all the answers to all the questions?

I think it was Augustine, when asked if he knew all the important answers, who responded that at times he wasn't even too sure what many of the questions were.

Micah 6[8] He has showed you, O man, what is good;
and what does the LORD require of you
but to do justice, and to love kindness,
and to walk humbly with your God?
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
The discussion here is based on what the requirements for your belief/ religion are . What is required of you to do in order to attain. Its immediate benefits/ results and its future promise / fulfilment.
Now this of course is based on whether or not said belief is true or not. But first let's discuss what's on offer here and my argument is , I don't believe anyone can offer more than I already have ,as a bible believing Christian . Not immediately or in the future.
It offers to make my intrinsic identity with God/Brahman clear to me. It offers to do this right now, in this life, if the path is followed. After that I basically become merged with God forever. :D
If I fail in this life, I literally get an infinitely many second chances in other lives to get it right.
Hard to see how you can top this....
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The discussion here is based on what the requirements for your belief/ religion are . What is required of you to do in order to attain. Its immediate benefits/ results and its future promise / fulfilment.
Now this of course is based on whether or not said belief is true or not. But first let's discuss what's on offer here and my argument is , I don't believe anyone can offer more than I already have ,as a bible believing Christian . Not immediately or in the future.
Have you tried Pastafarianism?
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Salvation in the New testament is described as a ' free gift ' . We should be ' smug ' and insufferable with Joy. with receiving eternal life ect .
Yes, but the sensible Christian, with some humility, realises that he or she does not know the mind of God and that salvation depends on how we conduct ourselves in our lives.

He or she does not, therefore, go around shouting from the rooftops that, "I'm all right, Jack, I'm saved, but I can't say the same for you". That would be like the worst of the New Testament pharisees - the sin of pride, right?

Basically the beef I have with this so-called "biblical" evangelical protestantism is its exclusivity.
WE are saved (not so sure about you).
WE have the TRUTH (but you don't: everyone else is wrong, but us).
And so on.
Can't you see how unattractive that looks from the outside?

One of the most thoughtful and attractive posts in this thread, to my mind, is post 21, from someone who is not Christian at all. Now that, I think, is a good attitude of mind to carry through life.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I do not know what exactly you believe. However the trouble with most people who call themselves "bible-believing" Christians (thereby falsely and absurdly implying that other Christians aren't:rolleyes:) is that it demands that adherents sacrifice their God-given intellect, by believing things that can be shown to be absurd.

In my view that is a terrible "deal", given that we only have one life and that our intellect is the biggest gift we have.
Sorry but you are not a True Christian™. Always make sure that your religion has a proper "™" symbol so that you know that you have the Real Thing™. What!? Not now. I mean, you have to be careful Because You're Worth It™. Rats! Not again. Okay I am going to pretend that is not happening. When you find the right religion join them Just Do It® (Ooh! That's different). Perhaps one day you will find a religion that you like as much as mine, It's Finger Lickin' Good©. Okay, I've had it.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Sorry but you are not a True Christian™. Always make sure that your religion has a proper "™" symbol so that you know that you have the Real Thing™. What!? Not now. I mean, you have to be careful Because You're Worth It™. Rats! Not again. Okay I am going to pretend that is not happening. When you find the right religion join them Just Do It® (Ooh! That's different). Perhaps one day you will find a religion that you like as much as mine, It's Finger Lickin' Good©. Okay, I've had it.
Well indeed. But then you see, having been born in Edinburgh of English parents, I'm not a True Scotsman...............;)

I don't find viewing religion as a "deal" is an especially helpful attitude of mind,either. It's not a product on offer in a supermarket.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Well indeed. But then you see, having been born in Edinburgh of English parents, I'm not a True Scotsman...............;)

I don't find viewing religion as a "deal" is an especially helpful attitude of mind,either. It's not a product on offer in a supermarket.
Just keeping with the topic of the thread. Since we are talking about deals, which religion offers the best one. The OP should appreciate Pastafarianism's God back guarantee.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Just keeping with the topic of the thread. Since we are talking about deals, which religion offers the best one. The OP should appreciate Pastafarianism's God back guarantee.
Oh sure, I was not criticising you at all. You seem to have entered into the spirit of the OP admirably. I'm agreeing with your implied criticism.:D
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Salvation in the New testament is described as a ' free gift ' . We should be ' smug ' and insufferable with Joy. with receiving eternal life ect .
You need to actually follow Jesus and take up his cross to receive salvation. The path is hard and only a few succeed, as Jesus himself said. You read the NT, yes? There was a parable of seeds falling on various places and how they fare, I recall...
 
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