Does Jesus become ruler over the created world (The God of this world)

[Soapy]

That sounds like superimposing or reading a lot of your own ideas into the Scripture.
I believe in the triune God, which I see as revealed in the entirety of the Bible. Below is a linked article which addresses the different views of God and the reasons why the Scriptures, the Cosmos, and creation support and point to the Triune God, three Persons - One God.
You are free to read it or not, agree or disagree.

The Trinity

Prove from your own wording. Taking someone else’s words from outside the scriptures is not a valid method of debate.

Speak, write, argue what you see in the scriptures.

This is why trinity believers cannot understand the fallacy of trinity - because they are reading and read-interacting what SOMEONE ELSE said and not what they see from the scriptures.

At least one thing I see, and it’s that you aren’t quoting the trinity creed (please don’t!) but please do stick to what YOU READ and UNDERSTAND from the scriptures SO THAT you aren’t BLINDED by the fog of trinity.

Truly, read what you see - don’t argue someone else’s debate - don’t sully your mind with false ideology. Then you will see the truth.

Incidentally, i’m constantly asking Trinitarians to plot out, from beginning to end, what their scriptural belief is to see if it harmonises with scriptures.... Guess what... NONE have done so.

There is a simple reason they won’t do it.... and that is: Once they start plotting out what trinity claims, it’s QUICKLY realised that it DOES NOT harmonise with the holy scriptures.

For instance, GOD created the world and everything in it / but trinity says it was Jesus.

But since GOD in trinity is three unified inseparable and immutable persons.... how could they separate themselves such that ONLY ONE did the creation?

And how is it that the same CREATOR GOD (oh, I thought they weren’t SEPARATE GODS??) ‘thought that being EQUAL TO GOD was not worthwhile and emptied himself to become man’?

Do you see that being ‘EQUAL’ to something DOES NOT MAKE you THAT THING you are EQUAL TO. There is ONLY ONE GOD... being EQUAL to the ONE GOD does not make you that SAME ONE GOD!

Jesus was MADE TO BE FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT - OF GOD.

What was Jesus BEFORE he was FILLED with the Holy Spirit? Remember that the verse also says ‘The Father was PLEASED’ that his earthly son should be so filled. So, again, what was the don BEFORE the Father filled him with HIS Holy Spirit?

When was Jesus ‘FILLED’ with the Holy Spirit of Yahweh? Yahweh’s Holy Spirit? Was if not as Jesus was being baptised in the river Jordan?

And what does Isaiah 42:1 say:

• “Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I will put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.”

Does this verse harmonise with Jesus being baptised with Yahweh’s Holy Spirit - an absolute anointment with ‘the oil of gladness’.

Incidentally, do you know what ANOINTING was used for and the ‘oil’ that was used to do so. Perhaps checking that out will give you a clue as to why the Holy Oil (as in, the Holy Spirit) is a greater anointing spirit than for previous anointings.

• “Behold my son in whom I am well pleased’

If, as you say, Jesus is ALMIGHTY GOD, why would HE say he was pleased WITH HIMSELF?

Just a few things for you to consider - things they don’t teach you about in trinity ideology BECAUSE it would prove AGAINST the very fallacy they are teaching you!

Please don’t dismiss what I’m saying to you - check it out.

 

[Soapy]

It is still important to study scripture and elicit the intended meaning.

The doctrine of the 'trinity' is used to explain how God has redeemed mankind.

No it does not. Trinity teaches fallacy that ‘GOD’ died to save humanity. But that CANNOT BE. No one DIES to save their own creation.

God said that he REQUIRED A BLOOD SACRIFICE from a SINLESS man. But, for sure, the eventual sacrifice by that sinless MAN meant that humanity was redeemed - but it is true that GOD REFRAINED from destroying all mankind because of the sin of one man, Adam.

It was the man, Jesus, who REDEEMED mankind by the giving of his sinless blood. And that is why God calls him ‘Beloved Son’... because he dutifully carried out the works of his Father God and also dutifully SACRIFICED HIMSELF (the only sinless man, holy and righteous in God’s eyes. Check that the ONLY covenant son of Abraham was set as a sacrifice but was just a test for Abraham - the real sacrifice was in Jesus Only beloved son)

Has God come to earth? I would say that scripture teaches that God has come to dwell amongst men on earth. This is God's intended means of salvation. Through the Son comes the Holy Spirit, the One Spirit of the Father.

It is NOT ‘GOD’ has come to earth. It is that “GOD’s WORD” has come to us.... through the man, Jesus Christ.
You truly cannot be reading the scriptures if you cannot see that it is not GOD: Yahweh, Nowhere does any verse in scriptures say that God is coming anywhere... that’s because GOD does not ‘Come’ anywhere - HE SENDS:

• his envoys,
• his prophets,
• his priests,
• his Holy Spirit,
• his Angels.

How Be it that ONE UNITED TRINITY GOD can SEND a part of ITSELF when it is an indivisible, United (?), IMMUTABLE, entity?

It seems that trinity is redefining words for its own benefit. What do these mean:

• Equality
• Immutable
• ‘Empty oneself’
• God
• ‘Word of God’
• Son
• ‘Firstborn’ as opposed to ‘First Born’
• ...

All these terms (and more) have been redefined by trinity as and when they find that the reality of their meaning disqualifies trinity belief.

 

[Redemptionsong]

No it does not. Trinity teaches fallacy that ‘GOD’ died to save humanity. But that CANNOT BE. No one DIES to save their own creation.

God said that he REQUIRED A BLOOD SACRIFICE from a SINLESS man. But, for sure, the eventual sacrifice by that sinless MAN meant that humanity was redeemed - but it is true that GOD REFRAINED from destroying all mankind because of the sin of one man, Adam.

It was the man, Jesus, who REDEEMED mankind by the giving of his sinless blood. And that is why God calls him ‘Beloved Son’... because he dutifully carried out the works of his Father God and also dutifully SACRIFICED HIMSELF (the only sinless man, holy and righteous in God’s eyes. Check that the ONLY covenant son of Abraham was set as a sacrifice but was just a test for Abraham - the real sacrifice was in Jesus Only beloved son)
It is NOT ‘GOD’ has come to earth. It is that “GOD’s WORD” has come to us.... through the man, Jesus Christ.
You truly cannot be reading the scriptures if you cannot see that it is not GOD: Yahweh, Nowhere does any verse in scriptures say that God is coming anywhere... that’s because GOD does not ‘Come’ anywhere - HE SENDS:

• his envoys,
• his prophets,
• his priests,
• his Holy Spirit,
• his Angels.

How Be it that ONE UNITED TRINITY GOD can SEND a part of ITSELF when it is an indivisible, United (?), IMMUTABLE, entity?

It seems that trinity is redefining words for its own benefit. What do these mean:

• Equality
• Immutable
• ‘Empty oneself’
• God
• ‘Word of God’
• Son
• ‘Firstborn’ as opposed to ‘First Born’
• ...

All these terms (and more) have been redefined by trinity as and when they find that the reality of their meaning disqualifies trinity belief.

Forget the theology, and consider the scripture.

What your argument fails to acknowledge is that the full measure of the Father's Spirit was in the Son. The Son was fully man, but he received the Spirit, in full measure, from the Father, as it says in Colossians 2:9.
'For in him dwelleth the fulness of the Godhead bodily.'

 

[Soapy]

Forget the theology, and consider the scripture.

What your argument fails to acknowledge is that the full measure of the Father's Spirit was in the Son. The Son was fully man, but he received the Spirit, in full measure, from the Father, as it says in Colossians 2:9.
'For in him dwelleth the fulness of the Godhead bodily.'

There is no such thing as a GODHEAD. It is an invalid devised term by Trinitarians. It is clear that the wording is:

• “For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell,”

What is Godhead’ supposed to mean: the trinity? The three persons.... Ha ha ha.... oh my gosh - it’s true - the delusion has certainly blinded the minds of many such that they believe the lie!!

If Godhead is trinity then Jesus is supposed to have been FILLED WITH ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’...!
But, in truth, the word is ‘fullness’ and is the Holy Spirit of the Father - as is seen at the baptism of Jesus and the subsequent anointing WITH the Holy Spirit. God anointed Jesus WITH God’s holy spirit in preparation for his future role as King AND Priest (high Priest to God, in fact) and:

• “Behold my servant in whom I am well pleased. I will PUT MY SPIRIT ON HIM and he shall bring justice to the nations” Isaiah 42;1 (paraphrased)
• “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.” (Acts 2:36)
• “You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached-- How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. (Acts 10:38)

How do you guys not read these things and see that that there is no harmony of these scriptures with the trinity concept that Jesus IS GOD (therefore Jesus would have anointed HIMSELF and given HIMSELF power.... Power which, as God, he would ALREADY have had!)

And, Did I not ask the question: What was Jesus BEFORE the Father filled him with His Holy Spirit?

Are you ignoring that situation?

 

[moorea944]

There is no such thing as a GODHEAD. It is an invalid devised term by Trinitarians. It is clear that the wording is:

• “For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell,”

What is Godhead’ supposed to mean: the trinity? The three persons.... Ha ha ha.... oh my gosh - it’s true - the delusion has certainly blinded the minds of many such that they believe the lie!!

If Godhead is trinity then Jesus is supposed to have been FILLED WITH ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’...!
But, in truth, the word is ‘fullness’ and is the Holy Spirit of the Father - as is seen at the baptism of Jesus and the subsequent anointing WITH the Holy Spirit. God anointed Jesus WITH God’s holy spirit in preparation for his future role as King AND Priest (high Priest to God, in fact) and:

• “Behold my servant in whom I am well pleased. I will PUT MY SPIRIT ON HIM and he shall bring justice to the nations” Isaiah 42;1 (paraphrased)
• “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.” (Acts 2:36)
• “You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached-- How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. (Acts 10:38)

How do you guys not read these things and see that that there is no harmony of these scriptures with the trinity concept that Jesus IS GOD (therefore Jesus would have anointed HIMSELF and given HIMSELF power.... Power which, as God, he would ALREADY have had!)

And, Did I not ask the question: What was Jesus BEFORE the Father filled him with His Holy Spirit?

Are you ignoring that situation?

Good post, thank you.
Just wanted to add, that if Jesus is God (which he is not), then why did he have to be glorified?....
Plus, didnt Jesus tell everyone that he has come in his father's name? Not seeing the trinity here......

 

[Redemptionsong]

There is no such thing as a GODHEAD. It is an invalid devised term by Trinitarians. It is clear that the wording is:

• “For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell,”

What is Godhead’ supposed to mean: the trinity? The three persons.... Ha ha ha.... oh my gosh - it’s true - the delusion has certainly blinded the minds of many such that they believe the lie!!

If Godhead is trinity then Jesus is supposed to have been FILLED WITH ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’...!
But, in truth, the word is ‘fullness’ and is the Holy Spirit of the Father - as is seen at the baptism of Jesus and the subsequent anointing WITH the Holy Spirit. God anointed Jesus WITH God’s holy spirit in preparation for his future role as King AND Priest (high Priest to God, in fact) and:

• “Behold my servant in whom I am well pleased. I will PUT MY SPIRIT ON HIM and he shall bring justice to the nations” Isaiah 42;1 (paraphrased)
• “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.” (Acts 2:36)
• “You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached-- How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. (Acts 10:38)

How do you guys not read these things and see that that there is no harmony of these scriptures with the trinity concept that Jesus IS GOD (therefore Jesus would have anointed HIMSELF and given HIMSELF power.... Power which, as God, he would ALREADY have had!)

And, Did I not ask the question: What was Jesus BEFORE the Father filled him with His Holy Spirit?

Are you ignoring that situation?

Jesus was a man under the law before he was anointed by the Spirit of God.

Now, you answer me a question. Was Jesus Christ, whilst on earth,
1. 100% God
2. 100% Man
3. Both 100% God and 100% Man?

 

[Thief]

Trinity claims that it was Jesus who created the world (earth) and everything in it. Yet the scriptures says that it was Yahweh who created it and all within it - in fact, Yahweh says that his people should worship Him, and Him, alone - one God (as opposed to pagan worship which is worship of many Gods).

But if Jesus created everything then why is he not called ‘Father’ (which means: ‘He that brings into being; he that brings forth; he that gives life; the head) and yet nowhere in scriptures does it say that Jesus is the ruler of the world; the Father.

So, it is interesting that scriptures says that, at the end of time, Jesus BECOMES the Eternal Father of those whom he gives eternal life to after the judgements.

But if we are to believe the trinity view that Jesus is one part of a tri-part ‘GOD’ - and GOD is Spirit and rules a GREATER infinite kingdom (Heaven) than the limited physical kingdom of earth - how is it that one part of the tri-part co-equal, co-powerful, co-everything GOD becomes ruler (God) over its/his own creation without the other two parts - and indeed become a LESSER ruler than his present rulership as God of all things?

the kingdom is not of this world

He said so

 

[Soapy]

Good post, thank you.
Just wanted to add, that if Jesus is God (which he is not), then why did he have to be glorified?....
Plus, didnt Jesus tell everyone that he has come in his father's name? Not seeing the trinity here......

I think that when Trinitarians see the truth they duck their heads and try their best to ignite it. The reason being that if they were to accept the truth that trinity is fallacy then where are they to go?
They cannot go back to their church - and asking questions about trinity to their pastor, priest, vicar.. would get them thrown out of the church. Even JW’s would excommunicate anyone who asked ‘searching’ questions about Jesus being an Angel before becoming man!

Jesus told us this would happen. Jesus told his disciples that they would suffer for his sake - and those who believe and speak the truth certainly are persecuted even in this forum.

But good to see that there are others who believe the truth that Jesus is not Almighty God... in fact, not GOD, per se. At least not over heaven and earth as trinity claims.

However, proper usage of the TITLE, ‘God’, would make Jesus ‘God over Creation’ after he takes his seat on the ethereal throne of king David, his ancestral Father.

I mean, this is all in the scriptures - I’m not trying to teach you but I say if so those reading this post know that the truth is being spoken (written).

You will, of course, notice that questions I ask from trinity believers rarely, if ever, get answered - and for good reason : they can’t. However, I’m not fooled by the fact that every question that proves the trinity is a fallacy will go into a little box marked,

• “Find a deceitful or disingenuous answer to these questions - we need to defend ourselves from these truths otherwise we are lost”

 

[Soapy]

Jesus was a man under the law before he was anointed by the Spirit of God.

Now, you answer me a question. Was Jesus Christ, whilst on earth,
1. 100% God
2. 100% Man
3. Both 100% God and 100% Man?

Oh, the old trinity trick.... oh boy... you clearly do not know of me else you wouldn’t ask me such deceitful questions.

But nonetheless:
Adam was created as an inert body enlivened by the power of the Holy Spirit of Yahweh God. Adam was sinless and holy, righteous in all his ways - SON OF GOD (Luke 3:38) until he fell to sin which condemned all humanity (from himself through all offspring) to eternal death.

After Yahweh considered the situation he decided that mankind could redeem itself if a man, holy, sinless, and righteous, could be found and whom would give his life as a sacrifice for the sin of Adam.

Yahweh also proposed that such a man would come from the seed of a woman (that is, not from a sinful Father since ‘spiritual sin’ comes from the male in the relationship.

Over a long period of time in which God allowed human fathers to procreate children and God tested each for the ‘promised one’, if was proved that no offspring in the line of Adam could produce the ‘Messiah’, the ‘Christ’, the Saviour....

So, “... when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.” (Galatians 4:4-5)

“God sent his son, born of a woman...” the virgin, Mary.

It is not an accident that Mary, as a virgin, was chosen. She was untouched by a male so no one could say that a man procreated her child. She was holy before God and in line through the holy ones, including Abraham, Jacob, and king David, back to Seth.

So, Yahweh God sent an Angel (Gabriel) to Mary telling her that she was to expect a baby BY MEANS of the Holy Spirit of Yahweh. No man was to enter her but the inert egg in her would be INSPIRITED by the breath of God (just as the inert body of Adam was inspirited by the power of Yahweh’s Holy Spirit). IN THIS WAY the child would be created HOLY, SINLESS, Righteous, a SON OF GOD.

So, until Jesus was 30 years old he did nothing but be dutiful to his human Father while Mary was desperate to see the fulfilment of what God had promised her through her child, Jesus. She even started demanding that Jesus ‘perform’ for people to prove who God said he would be. But Jesus resisted the TEMPTATION.

Finally, at the appointed time, Jesus was SENT BY GOD TO START HIS MISSION. This is what is meant by ‘GOD SENT HIS SON’. But before God sent him, God ANOINTED Jesus with POWER - his Holy Spirit... this enabled Jesus to USE the power of the Holy Spirit to do good!

To do good... if Jesus had used the Holy Spirit to do anything bad - for selfish reasons - god would have REMOVED the hilt spirit access from him.

This is borne out in the temptations in the wilderness where Satan tested the body weakened Jesus with easy ‘outs’ for his problem, show off by jumping from the top of the temple and landing safely, and ... taking the seat of glory (throne of David as RULER over creation) without the agony, abuse, pain, and ultra painful DEATH of a sinless man on the tree: Cursed is he who is hung from a tree - a true humiliation for a Jew! All this knowing he was perfectly innocent.

So:

• Was Jesus 100% man: Yes.
• Was he 100% God: No.
• Both God and man. No.

So now you are going to ask me stupid questions about how Jesus could perform all those miracles if he wasn’t God.... tiring, boring, dreadfully crass question!

The answer is already given:

• God EMPOWERED Jesus to do good by his, Yahweh’s Holy Spirit.

Jesus raised the dead so he must be God!! No!
- Elijah raised the dead.... Elisha raised the dead...!

Jesus walked on water so he must be God!! No!
- Peter walked on water!

Jesus forgave man their sin so must be God!! No!
- Jesus told us that ‘Man has the power on earth to forgive sins’ (that is, if your brother sins against you you can FORGIVE HIM!!! What you cannot forgive is sin against GOD... only GOD can forgive you for that... so the gist of it is that IT IS HE WHO IS SINNED AGAINST WHO CSN FORGIVE THE ONE WHO SINNED AGAINST YOU! If your brethren sins against you, Jesus says it is a wonderful thing if YOU forgive him and if he is truly regretful of the sin then it is resolved (in other words, repentance must be true - not just mouthing it!)

What else did Jesus do that you will say it is because he was God... Oh, NOTHING!! Everything Jesus did he told his apostles:

• “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.” (John 14:12)

So, Jesus says the apostles, in the future, in fact, mankind will do EVEN GREATER THINGS than even Jesus did....!

So how about that! Jesus said that if a man has enough faith then that man could ‘talk’ to the mountain and it would do as he says... Faith can move mountains... Jesus had all faith and empowered the apostles to do SIMILAR even as the apostles were empowered in part - not whole - by the Holy Spirit of Yahweh at Pentecost in the upper room.

What nonsense are you going to use to try to refute what is written in the scriptures?

 

[Windwalker]

I can see from your response that knowledge of the scriptures is not a strong point and regurgitating what you have been taught in wrongness is all you can respond with.

I can see from your response you leap to convenient conclusions and judgements because it probably makes it so you can sleep better at night. I have a degree in theology, and have been studying scripture for the past 40 years. Swing and a miss. Strike one.

You say the trinity draws its ideology from the scriptures.... that’s odd!

Of course it does. Haven't you ever studied the history of the Trinitarian formulation? They didn't just make it up out of thin air. It's a formula based upon readings and interpretations of scripture, not a supernatural vision from an angel or something.

John 1:1-3 is one of the most dangerously misinterpreted scriptures in the whole Bible. It is nothing to do with Jesus creating anything.

It has everything to do with the Logos creating. And then in verse 14 it explictly says, "The Logos became flesh and dwelt among us." So you are right, "Jesus" didn't create the universe. The "Logos" did. That's what the verse says. And Jesus was the incarnation of that Logos. There really isn't another way to read that. Are you sure you've read the passage?

It says that God’s word was with with him in the beginning... and we know that from Genesis 1:1, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth...”

And God said, “LET THERE BE LIGHT”.... there you are, God’s word at work creating the world.

Yep. And the Logos is God. It says that in Jn. 1:1c. "And the Logos was God" (meaning of the Divine nature, intended by the use of the anarthrous form in the Greek). Yep, God created everything, through the Logos. It says that in Jn. 1:1-3 explicitly, not implied.

Define what you mean by ‘God’... I beg you cannot... I bet you just use the TITLE with no idea what you mean by it.

My bet is I know a whole lot more about this than you do. Proof is I don't need to use all-caps to make my case.

Also, God’s WORD was that he would send a SAVIOUR... AND HE DID.... and so God’s word ‘TOOK ON FLESH’.... it CAME TRUE. God’s word was MANIFESTED on earth...

Do you understand that the "Word" translated in your bible is the Greek word Logos? Do you know anything at all about how Logos was used by other writers of that time, such as Philo of Alexandria? If not, then how can you begin to hope to have any idea of what the author of John was signifying by choosing that word? Have ever studied any of this?

If someone says they will do something monumental and then they do it, then that is their WORD BEING MANIFESTED. That is their WORD ‘Taking on flesh’.

Clearly, you are no scholar. Why did John use the word Logos to describe the Agent of God's creative actions? Any ideas?

I think you need to talk to your pastor, priest, bishop, or whom ever is teaching you trinity nonsense.

I can easily say the same to you, since you clearly don't know much about this area of study.

That said however, I think the Trinity formulation is just a way to speak about the different aspects of the Divine Nature. I do not interpret it literally, as you do.

Oh, by the way. Be careful if you are going to ask. Ask to many questions and you may find you get tossed out the church. The reason is that trinity churches DO NOT LIKE you to question their belief. They don’t like you to ask questions that they cannot fix and answer to.

I do just fine researching myself the works of scholars over these past 40 years. How many scholars have you read about this? Only those in your church, preaching in an echo-chamber, telling you what you want to hear and ignoring research?

 

[Soapy]

the kingdom is not of this world

He said so

Not of present human government. That’s why Pontius Pilate was reluctant to condemn Jesus. He understood that Jesus was not referring to heresey (overthrowing Caesar in Rome).

The Jews knew this but they lied about it and used the fact Jesus said he was a King as an excuse to claim Jesus was trying to overthrow Caesar.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Oh, the old trinity trick.... oh boy... you clearly do not know of me else you wouldn’t ask me such deceitful questions.

But nonetheless:
Adam was created as an inert body enlivened by the power of the Holy Spirit of Yahweh God. Adam was sinless and holy, righteous in all his ways - SON OF GOD (Luke 3:38) until he fell to sin which condemned all humanity (from himself through all offspring) to eternal death.

After Yahweh considered the situation he decided that mankind could redeem itself if a man, holy, sinless, and righteous, could be found and whom would give his life as a sacrifice for the sin of Adam.

Yahweh also proposed that such a man would come from the seed of a woman (that is, not from a sinful Father since ‘spiritual sin’ comes from the male in the relationship.

Over a long period of time in which God allowed human fathers to procreate children and God tested each for the ‘promised one’, if was proved that no offspring in the line of Adam could produce the ‘Messiah’, the ‘Christ’, the Saviour....

So, “... when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.” (Galatians 4:4-5)

“God sent his son, born of a woman...” the virgin, Mary.

It is not an accident that Mary, as a virgin, was chosen. She was untouched by a male so no one could say that a man procreated her child. She was holy before God and in line through the holy ones, including Abraham, Jacob, and king David, back to Seth.

So, Yahweh God sent an Angel (Gabriel) to Mary telling her that she was to expect a baby BY MEANS of the Holy Spirit of Yahweh. No man was to enter her but the inert egg in her would be INSPIRITED by the breath of God (just as the inert body of Adam was inspirited by the power of Yahweh’s Holy Spirit). IN THIS WAY the child would be created HOLY, SINLESS, Righteous, a SON OF GOD.

So, until Jesus was 30 years old he did nothing but be dutiful to his human Father while Mary was desperate to see the fulfilment of what God had promised her through her child, Jesus. She even started demanding that Jesus ‘perform’ for people to prove who God said he would be. But Jesus resisted the TEMPTATION.

Finally, at the appointed time, Jesus was SENT BY GOD TO START HIS MISSION. This is what is meant by ‘GOD SENT HIS SON’. But before God sent him, God ANOINTED Jesus with POWER - his Holy Spirit... this enabled Jesus to USE the power of the Holy Spirit to do good!

To do good... if Jesus had used the Holy Spirit to do anything bad - for selfish reasons - god would have REMOVED the hilt spirit access from him.

This is borne out in the temptations in the wilderness where Satan tested the body weakened Jesus with easy ‘outs’ for his problem, show off by jumping from the top of the temple and landing safely, and ... taking the seat of glory (throne of David as RULER over creation) without the agony, abuse, pain, and ultra painful DEATH of a sinless man on the tree: Cursed is he who is hung from a tree - a true humiliation for a Jew! All this knowing he was perfectly innocent.

So:

• Was Jesus 100% man: Yes.
• Was he 100% God: No.
• Both God and man. No.

So now you are going to ask me stupid questions about how Jesus could perform all those miracles if he wasn’t God.... tiring, boring, dreadfully crass question!

The answer is already given:

• God EMPOWERED Jesus to do good by his, Yahweh’s Holy Spirit.

Jesus raised the dead so he must be God!! No!
- Elijah raised the dead.... Elisha raised the dead...!

Jesus walked on water so he must be God!! No!
- Peter walked on water!

Jesus forgave man their sin so must be God!! No!
- Jesus told us that ‘Man has the power on earth to forgive sins’ (that is, if your brother sins against you you can FORGIVE HIM!!! What you cannot forgive is sin against GOD... only GOD can forgive you for that... so the gist of it is that IT IS HE WHO IS SINNED AGAINST WHO CSN FORGIVE THE ONE WHO SINNED AGAINST YOU! If your brethren sins against you, Jesus says it is a wonderful thing if YOU forgive him and if he is truly regretful of the sin then it is resolved (in other words, repentance must be true - not just mouthing it!)

What else did Jesus do that you will say it is because he was God... Oh, NOTHING!! Everything Jesus did he told his apostles:

• “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.” (John 14:12)

So, Jesus says the apostles, in the future, in fact, mankind will do EVEN GREATER THINGS than even Jesus did....!

So how about that! Jesus said that if a man has enough faith then that man could ‘talk’ to the mountain and it would do as he says... Faith can move mountains... Jesus had all faith and empowered the apostles to do SIMILAR even as the apostles were empowered in part - not whole - by the Holy Spirit of Yahweh at Pentecost in the upper room.

What nonsense are you going to use to try to refute what is written in the scriptures?

So, when God's Spirit rested upon Jesus, was it 98% God, 75% God, or maybe something less, say 25% God that rested upon Jesus? As you say, it couldn't have been 100% God, because then Jesus would have been 'good'. [See Luke 18:19] 'And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.'

And if Jesus is not God, we must wonder why he is called 'Saviour'. Luke 2:11. 'For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.'

Titus 1:1-4.'Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Both hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour; To Titus, mine own son after common faith: Grace, mercy and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.'

Yet both Hosea and Isaiah state emphatically that God is the ONLY saviour.

Hosea 13:4. 'Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no God but me: for there is no saviour beside me.'

It seems to me that it's the scriptures that refute your argument.

So, who is the glory of God?
John 1:14. 'And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.'

If Jesus was man alone (and less than good), then we have to consider what Paul said about sin: 'For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;' Was Jesus a sinner? Clearly not. [See Exodus 34:5-8]

A true mediator between God and man must exhibit the attributes of both God and man.

 

[Soapy]

So, when God's Spirit rested upon Jesus, was it 98% God, 75% God, or maybe something less, say 25% God that rested upon Jesus? As you say, it couldn't have been 100% God, because then Jesus would have been 'good'. [See Luke 18:19] 'And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.'

And if Jesus is not God, we must wonder why he is called 'Saviour'. Luke 2:11. 'For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.'

Titus 1:1-4.'Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Both hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour; To Titus, mine own son after common faith: Grace, mercy and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.'

Yet both Hosea and Isaiah state emphatically that God is the ONLY saviour.

Hosea 13:4. 'Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no God but me: for there is no saviour beside me.'

It seems to me that it's the scriptures that refute your argument.

So, who is the glory of God?
John 1:14. 'And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.'

If Jesus was man alone (and less than good), then we have to consider what Paul said about sin: 'For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;' Was Jesus a sinner? Clearly not. [See Exodus 34:5-8]

A true mediator between God and man must exhibit the attributes of both God and man.

What you said here shows you should not be in a debate session.

There is no point of concordance in what you are saying and it is purely designed for disruptive argument that has no place in scriptural exchanges.

There is no substance of scriptural truth in all you are quoting as regards controversy in what I said.

How do I answer squibble? Best answer is no answer!

However, I just reread that you quote Jesus asking the Jewish man, “why call me good. There is no one goid but God”.

You are implying that since Jesus said he was not good he cannot be God. But Jesus didn’t say he wasn’t ‘good’ nor is ‘goodness’ the real point of the exchange.

We ALL KNOW that Jesus detected a DISINGENUOUSNESS in the Jews utterance, “Good master...”. Jesus knew the man was trying (knowingly or unknowingly) to trick Jesus into claiming GODSHIP and so Jesus batted the statement away:

• “In relation to GOD ALMIGHTY, only GOD is GOOD”

is what Jesus was really saying in his reply. So this has nothing to do with proving or disproving Jesus as man or God but puts into perspective the relationship between GOD and Man.

And what is the point of the quote from Hosea. The Jews believed that there IS no other God but one: the almighty Yahweh... and Jesus’ Father, GOD, is Yahweh... what are you saying. Didn’t Jesus say:

• “Father, ... eternal life depends on them believing in you, the ONLY TRUE GOD, ...”

How are you disputing Jesus’ own words as to the only true God?

After this, everything else as an argument is moot!

Thank you did the waste of time - I responded only to show that even squibble can elicit a chance to uphold the word of God delivered through his earthly son, Jesus Christ.

 

[InChrist]

Prove from your own wording. Taking someone else’s words from outside the scriptures is not a valid method of debate.

Speak, write, argue what you see in the scriptures.

This is why trinity believers cannot understand the fallacy of trinity - because they are reading and read-interacting what SOMEONE ELSE said and not what they see from the scriptures.

At least one thing I see, and it’s that you aren’t quoting the trinity creed (please don’t!) but please do stick to what YOU READ and UNDERSTAND from the scriptures SO THAT you aren’t BLINDED by the fog of trinity.

Truly, read what you see - don’t argue someone else’s debate - don’t sully your mind with false ideology. Then you will see the truth.

Incidentally, i’m constantly asking Trinitarians to plot out, from beginning to end, what their scriptural belief is to see if it harmonises with scriptures.... Guess what... NONE have done so.

There is a simple reason they won’t do it.... and that is: Once they start plotting out what trinity claims, it’s QUICKLY realised that it DOES NOT harmonise with the holy scriptures.

For instance, GOD created the world and everything in it / but trinity says it was Jesus.

But since GOD in trinity is three unified inseparable and immutable persons.... how could they separate themselves such that ONLY ONE did the creation?

And how is it that the same CREATOR GOD (oh, I thought they weren’t SEPARATE GODS??) ‘thought that being EQUAL TO GOD was not worthwhile and emptied himself to become man’?

Do you see that being ‘EQUAL’ to something DOES NOT MAKE you THAT THING you are EQUAL TO. There is ONLY ONE GOD... being EQUAL to the ONE GOD does not make you that SAME ONE GOD!

Jesus was MADE TO BE FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT - OF GOD.

What was Jesus BEFORE he was FILLED with the Holy Spirit? Remember that the verse also says ‘The Father was PLEASED’ that his earthly son should be so filled. So, again, what was the don BEFORE the Father filled him with HIS Holy Spirit?

When was Jesus ‘FILLED’ with the Holy Spirit of Yahweh? Yahweh’s Holy Spirit? Was if not as Jesus was being baptised in the river Jordan?

And what does Isaiah 42:1 say:

• “Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I will put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.”

Does this verse harmonise with Jesus being baptised with Yahweh’s Holy Spirit - an absolute anointment with ‘the oil of gladness’.

Incidentally, do you know what ANOINTING was used for and the ‘oil’ that was used to do so. Perhaps checking that out will give you a clue as to why the Holy Oil (as in, the Holy Spirit) is a greater anointing spirit than for previous anointings.

• “Behold my son in whom I am well pleased’

If, as you say, Jesus is ALMIGHTY GOD, why would HE say he was pleased WITH HIMSELF?

Just a few things for you to consider - things they don’t teach you about in trinity ideology BECAUSE it would prove AGAINST the very fallacy they are teaching you!

Please don’t dismiss what I’m saying to you - check it out.

If you want me to explain my views on the Trinity which is revealed throughout the scriptures

Prove from your own wording. Taking someone else’s words from outside the scriptures is not a valid method of debate.

Speak, write, argue what you see in the scriptures.

This is why trinity believers cannot understand the fallacy of trinity - because they are reading and read-interacting what SOMEONE ELSE said and not what they see from the scriptures.

At least one thing I see, and it’s that you aren’t quoting the trinity creed (please don’t!) but please do stick to what YOU READ and UNDERSTAND from the scriptures SO THAT you aren’t BLINDED by the fog of trinity.

Truly, read what you see - don’t argue someone else’s debate - don’t sully your mind with false ideology. Then you will see the truth.

Incidentally, i’m constantly asking Trinitarians to plot out, from beginning to end, what their scriptural belief is to see if it harmonises with scriptures.... Guess what... NONE have done so.

There is a simple reason they won’t do it.... and that is: Once they start plotting out what trinity claims, it’s QUICKLY realised that it DOES NOT harmonise with the holy scriptures.

For instance, GOD created the world and everything in it / but trinity says it was Jesus.

But since GOD in trinity is three unified inseparable and immutable persons.... how could they separate themselves such that ONLY ONE did the creation?

And how is it that the same CREATOR GOD (oh, I thought they weren’t SEPARATE GODS??) ‘thought that being EQUAL TO GOD was not worthwhile and emptied himself to become man’?

Do you see that being ‘EQUAL’ to something DOES NOT MAKE you THAT THING you are EQUAL TO. There is ONLY ONE GOD... being EQUAL to the ONE GOD does not make you that SAME ONE GOD!

Jesus was MADE TO BE FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT - OF GOD.

What was Jesus BEFORE he was FILLED with the Holy Spirit? Remember that the verse also says ‘The Father was PLEASED’ that his earthly son should be so filled. So, again, what was the don BEFORE the Father filled him with HIS Holy Spirit?

When was Jesus ‘FILLED’ with the Holy Spirit of Yahweh? Yahweh’s Holy Spirit? Was if not as Jesus was being baptised in the river Jordan?

And what does Isaiah 42:1 say:

• “Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I will put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.”

Does this verse harmonise with Jesus being baptised with Yahweh’s Holy Spirit - an absolute anointment with ‘the oil of gladness’.

Incidentally, do you know what ANOINTING was used for and the ‘oil’ that was used to do so. Perhaps checking that out will give you a clue as to why the Holy Oil (as in, the Holy Spirit) is a greater anointing spirit than for previous anointings.

• “Behold my son in whom I am well pleased’

If, as you say, Jesus is ALMIGHTY GOD, why would HE say he was pleased WITH HIMSELF?

Just a few things for you to consider - things they don’t teach you about in trinity ideology BECAUSE it would prove AGAINST the very fallacy they are teaching you!

Please don’t dismiss what I’m saying to you - check it out.

No one taught me the Trinity. Nor do I believe it because of creeds or a church. I was raised Catholic, left the Catholic Church and totally rejected the Trinity! I thought it was false and nonsense. It wasn’t until I was saved by Jesus Christ and born again to new life in Him that my eyes and understanding were opened. Then I knew, then I saw that God displays His triune Nature from beginning to end throughout the Bible. Even the week before being saved, after visiting a church where they sang ...”Holy Holy Holy Blessed Trinity, I said to my husband, “How can anyone believe in the Trinity???, It’s just nonsense!”. One week and one day later we were saved by ourselves at home, we knew the Trinity was true.
If you want me to go through the scriptures and write in my own words, you’ll have to wait. I am very busy for at least the next week. I sent you the article because it presents exactly my thoughts with supporting scriptures.
My belief is that if someone denies the Triune Nature if God, they do not know God at all, do not know the Savior Jesus Christ, are not saved by Him or born again to eternal life. It is clear from reading your comments you have a very confused, mixed up understanding of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Have a good day.

 

[Soapy]

If you want me to explain my views on the Trinity which is revealed throughout the scriptures



No one taught me the Trinity. Nor do I believe it because of creeds or a church. I was raised Catholic, left the Catholic Church and totally rejected the Trinity! I thought it was false and nonsense. It wasn’t until I was saved by Jesus Christ and born again to new life in Him that my eyes and understanding were opened. Then I knew, then I saw that God displays His triune Nature from beginning to end throughout the Bible. Even the week before being saved, after visiting a church where they sang ...”Holy Holy Holy Blessed Trinity, I said to my husband, “How can anyone believe in the Trinity???, It’s just nonsense!”. One week and one day later we were saved by ourselves at home, we knew the Trinity was true.
If you want me to go through the scriptures and write in my own words, you’ll have to wait. I am very busy for at least the next week. I sent you the article because it presents exactly my thoughts with supporting scriptures.
My belief is that if someone denies the Triune Nature if God, they do not know God at all, do not know the Savior Jesus Christ, are not saved by Him or born again to eternal life. It is clear from reading your comments you have a very confused, mixed up understanding of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Have a good day.

So you believe that the Holy Spirit is a person like Jesus and the Father?

And you believe that Jesus created the world and all in it for himself?

And you believe that Jesus came from heaven and clothed himself in flesh to become a man - and that he then died but did not die because he was Almighty God.

And you believe that GOD raised him up again (even though he didn’t die) and gave him immortal life (even though he was actually God all along).

And although he was God he was seated next to God and GIVEN POWER AND AUTHORITY TO RULE FOR A PERIOD OF TIME.

He then handed back the power and authority GOD gave him - but yet was still God even after power and authority to rule was given back from him?

And you believe that this Jesus will gone again at a time appointed by GOD that he does not know - even though he himself is God who appoints the time.?

And that Jesus will be given authority by God, even though he is God, to judge humanity.

And then He, Jesus, will be given the rulership over creation even though he is GOD and is already God over a greater kingdom of heaven.

This you believe?

I see you are an honest, but misled person. Please answer each question above for me - do better than the other fakers in this forum!

 

[InChrist]

So you believe that the Holy Spirit is a person like Jesus and the Father?

And you believe that Jesus created the world and all in it for himself?

And you believe that Jesus came from heaven and clothed himself in flesh to become a man - and that he then died but did not die because he was Almighty God.

And you believe that GOD raised him up again (even though he didn’t die) and gave him immortal life (even though he was actually God all along).

And although he was God he was seated next to God and GIVEN POWER AND AUTHORITY TO RULE FOR A PERIOD OF TIME.

He then handed back the power and authority GOD gave him - but yet was still God even after power and authority to rule was given back from him?

And you believe that this Jesus will gone again at a time appointed by GOD that he does not know - even though he himself is God who appoints the time.?

And that Jesus will be given authority by God, even though he is God, to judge humanity.

And then He, Jesus, will be given the rulership over creation even though he is GOD and is already God over a greater kingdom of heaven.

This you believe?

I see you are an honest, but misled person. Please answer each question above for me - do better than the other fakers in this forum!

I guess you didn’t notice that I previously said I am limited by time now. I will try to answer the questions as I find time.
Let me ask you something, are you a Jehovah’s Witness, Oneness Pentecostal or what?

 

[InChrist]

Prove from your own wording. Taking someone else’s words from outside the scriptures is not a valid method of debate.

Speak, write, argue what you see in the scriptures.

This is why trinity believers cannot understand the fallacy of trinity - because they are reading and read-interacting what SOMEONE ELSE said and not what they see from the scriptures.

At least one thing I see, and it’s that you aren’t quoting the trinity creed (please don’t!) but please do stick to what YOU READ and UNDERSTAND from the scriptures SO THAT you aren’t BLINDED by the fog of trinity.

Truly, read what you see - don’t argue someone else’s debate - don’t sully your mind with false ideology. Then you will see the truth.

Incidentally, i’m constantly asking Trinitarians to plot out, from beginning to end, what their scriptural belief is to see if it harmonises with scriptures.... Guess what... NONE have done so.

There is a simple reason they won’t do it.... and that is: Once they start plotting out what trinity claims, it’s QUICKLY realised that it DOES NOT harmonise with the holy scriptures.

For instance, GOD created the world and everything in it / but trinity says it was Jesus.

But since GOD in trinity is three unified inseparable and immutable persons.... how could they separate themselves such that ONLY ONE did the creation?

And how is it that the same CREATOR GOD (oh, I thought they weren’t SEPARATE GODS??) ‘thought that being EQUAL TO GOD was not worthwhile and emptied himself to become man’?

Do you see that being ‘EQUAL’ to something DOES NOT MAKE you THAT THING you are EQUAL TO. There is ONLY ONE GOD... being EQUAL to the ONE GOD does not make you that SAME ONE GOD!

Jesus was MADE TO BE FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT - OF GOD.

What was Jesus BEFORE he was FILLED with the Holy Spirit? Remember that the verse also says ‘The Father was PLEASED’ that his earthly son should be so filled. So, again, what was the don BEFORE the Father filled him with HIS Holy Spirit?

When was Jesus ‘FILLED’ with the Holy Spirit of Yahweh? Yahweh’s Holy Spirit? Was if not as Jesus was being baptised in the river Jordan?

And what does Isaiah 42:1 say:

• “Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I will put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.”

Does this verse harmonise with Jesus being baptised with Yahweh’s Holy Spirit - an absolute anointment with ‘the oil of gladness’.

Incidentally, do you know what ANOINTING was used for and the ‘oil’ that was used to do so. Perhaps checking that out will give you a clue as to why the Holy Oil (as in, the Holy Spirit) is a greater anointing spirit than for previous anointings.

• “Behold my son in whom I am well pleased’

If, as you say, Jesus is ALMIGHTY GOD, why would HE say he was pleased WITH HIMSELF?

Just a few things for you to consider - things they don’t teach you about in trinity ideology BECAUSE it would prove AGAINST the very fallacy they are teaching you!

Please don’t dismiss what I’m saying to you - check it out.

Let me ask you something...

Do you believe there is ONE human race? Yes or No?

 

[Thief]

Not of present human government. That’s why Pontius Pilate was reluctant to condemn Jesus. He understood that Jesus was not referring to heresey (overthrowing Caesar in Rome).

The Jews knew this but they lied about it and used the fact Jesus said he was a King as an excuse to claim Jesus was trying to overthrow Caesar.

yeah .....the Pharisees were behind the argument

the Carpenter slighted their authority

they wanted Him dead

so they used the prophecy of a pending Hiearchy

 

[Soapy]

So you believe that the Holy Spirit is a person like Jesus and the Father?

And you believe that Jesus created the world and all in it for himself?

And you believe that Jesus came from heaven and clothed himself in flesh to become a man - and that he then died but did not die because he was Almighty God.

And you believe that GOD raised him up again (even though he didn’t die) and gave him immortal life (even though he was actually God all along).

And although he was God he was seated next to God and GIVEN POWER AND AUTHORITY TO RULE FOR A PERIOD OF TIME.

He then handed back the power and authority GOD gave him - but yet was still God even after power and authority to rule was given back from him?

And you believe that this Jesus will gone again at a time appointed by GOD that he does not know - even though he himself is God who appoints the time.?

And that Jesus will be given authority by God, even though he is God, to judge humanity.

And then He, Jesus, will be given the rulership over creation even though he is GOD and is already God over a greater kingdom of heaven.

This you believe?

I see you are an honest, but misled person. Please answer each question above for me - do better than the other fakers in this forum!

None of the above.

My belief does not fit into a box that has an earthly label in current religious categories. I just call it ‘Truth’ because that’s what it is.

I believe that:

• God is Yahweh, and Yahweh, alone - God, the worshipped deity of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, just as scriptures says
• The argument about ‘God is One’ has been twisted out of reality. It is a force-fit for Trinitarians who try to claim that 3 equals 1 and that three persons who are all equal to each other in every way are actually totally different.
• Yahweh created the world and all therein.
• Yahweh and [an] Angel created the body of the first man, Adam. But it is Yahweh who put the enlivening spirit into the body to make Adam “A living soul”. (Now this could just mean that though a human-like creature existed, but only when knowledge of Yahweh was put into it did it become a ‘LIVING’ (God-fearing, God-aware) Being. Take or leave this part for science! Moses was not an anthropologist)
• Adam was created pure, holy, sinless and righteous - as might be expected as a ‘Son of God’ (Luke 3:38) ‘image of God’ creation.
• But Adam sinned and fell from grace. Yahweh was angry but decided that if another man who was righteous, Holy, and Sinless, would die and give his pure unblemished blood as a sacrifice then Yahweh would relent from condemning all the children from Adam (all mankind, in effect as sin passes from the human Father down through all offspring)
• Yahweh always has a contingency plan - and that plan was that a man created in the like of Adam would redeem mankind if no direct descendent of Adam was found (‘The seed of the woman’)
• Over time no man good enough as found. David, son of Jesse, came nearest but even he sinned by killing and taking another man’s wife. Even his son, Solomon, wisest of all men, sinned!
• Eventually, and even the Jews were anxiously awaiting - Yahweh put his contingency plan into play. A man (child) who would be pure, holy, sinless, and righteous, was to come into being. This could only be achieved by the fertilisation of the SEED OF A WOMAN (a virgin) by Yahweh’s Holy Spirit. The seed (egg) performed the simile with the inert earth body of Adam and the rest is as is: the body was enlivened by the breath of Yahweh. THEREFORE ‘The child to be born will be holy, sinless, righteous, and called, “Son of God”’ (where did you read that before - hint: see creation of Adam, above). And, again, therefore, the ‘man’ is called: ‘The LAST ADAM’ (second and last) - Jesus, later entitled, Christ (‘The anointed one’)
• Jesus, son of God, was taught by his spirit Father, Yahweh, to bring the testament of Yahweh to mankind and for Jesus to do good among mankind and turn mankind back to Yahweh (Isaiah 42:1) to which end, Yahweh anointed Jesus with Yahweh’s own Holy Spirit, at the river Jordan. This then EMPOWERED Jesus to carry out the great acts that he was about to perform. To this end, Jesus was tempted to see whether he would misuse these powers - and he passed the trial and did not sin. This is when scriptures says “GOD SENT HIS SON [into the world]” (see, John 17:18: “As you sent me into the world, I [also] have sent them [the apostles] into the world.”) . Remember that at the baptism and at other times the saying is, “GOD” said x about “HIS SON”. But “GOD” also called his Son, a “SERVANT” (Isaiah 42:1)
• Jesus, a man approved by God:
  • “This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased’ (Matt 3:17)
  • “Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know (Acts 2:22)
  • “For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?”
• Jesus acted exactly as Yahweh directed him by his holy spirit and gave the testimony of Yahweh to those Yahweh sent him to:
  • “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world.They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me” (John 16:6-9)
• Jesus fulfilled the mission that Yahweh sent him on and was crucified in the painful and a humiliating way for a Jew by being hung on a tree (‘Cursed is he who is hung from a tree!’)
• Yahweh fulfilled his prophesy by raising Jesus up again and making Jesus IMMORTAL. Jesus appeared to his followers to prove he had risen and give them hope and comfort otherwise they might just have thought he was a sham!
• Jesus was raised up to Heaven by YAHWEH and given the seat of honor at Yahweh’s right hand side.
• Yahweh then GIVES Jesus power and authority to reign for a ‘thousand years’ to bring the world back to Yahweh since it was in the grips of ‘THE GOD OF THIS SYSTEM OF THINGS’. After which Jesus HANDS BACK the power and authority TO YAHWEH.
• Other stuff happens and then comes the judgement of mankind which YAHWEH gives Jesus the right to carry out:
  • “Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him. (John 5:22-23)
• And Jesus, makes kings and priests to reign with him from those of the first resurrection - these human rulers replace Angel rulers over creation. Jesus replaces Satan and the holy creations government structure currently in the ‘hands’ of angels are put into the ‘hands’ of these elected one.
• The second resurrection, and judgement, (there’s no judgement on the first resurrection as these have already been cleansed and found guiltless before Yahweh and Jesus) see Jesus GIVING EVERLASTING LIFE to those whom he seems worthy - hence Jesus then acquires the title of “Everlasting Father” to these.
• Jesus takes his seat on the throne of David and rules over the created world in complete righteousness, truth, snd godliness.
• Amen.

It’s funny but when I asked a good friend of mine who is a trinitarian about his belief in trinity he only seemed to be interested in quoting the trinity creed, John 1:1, and ‘Jesus said, “I am”’. Also he did what you just did - started asking me which denomination, which label, what belief, I had without answering what I asked. It was like he actually didn’t know the answers to anything I asked except to fly back with stock trinity responses that didn’t fit the questions asked.

Oh, and he is a trinity church leader.

However, I would love to hear your responses to the questions I asked you... answer when you can but please answer - they are not hard questions nor do they need in-depth descriptions.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Yahweh and [an] Angel created the body of the first man, Adam.

A few questions arise.
Where did Yahweh come from to Earth in order to create Adam, or to put it another way, where does Yahweh normally reside?
Where did the Angel come from?
Why did Yahweh require an Angel to create Adam?
What is Yahweh made of, eg, spirit, matter, etc?