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Are you a born sinner? Is anyone?

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Infant baptism is not taught in the Bible.
It was not the norm but we know it did happen, whereas in Acts it talks about a whole family getting baptized. Even though we don't know how old the kids may have been, at that point in time in eretz Israel, when daddy converted the whole family converted. And this makes sense because any children would be brought up in the faith of the Church as it was.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
So do you believe parts are true but not other parts? Isn't that like pick and choose being I just showed you we all are sinners.
Seems to me that picking and choosing is precisely what you're doing. I mean, why are you disregarding passages like these?

"In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity." Jeremiah 31:29-30

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him." Ezekiel 18:20

I don't blame you; the Bible is full of contradictions, so it's impossible to get a coherent message from it without disregarding some of it. Still, it's not cool to point fingers at someone else for doing what you're doing, too.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
It was not the norm but we know it did happen, whereas in Acts it talks about a whole family getting baptized. Even though we don't know how old the kids may have been, at that point in time in eretz Israel, when daddy converted the whole family converted. And this makes sense because any children would be brought up in the faith of the Church as it was.

The thief on the cross wasn't baptized. Thief On The Cross Shows Us The Simple Way Of Salvation

Luke 23:39-43, “And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”

The Biblical account of a repentant thief being crucified alongside our dear Savior provides us with irrefutable evidence how to be saved. In our text Scripture passage from Luke 23:39-43, we clearly see what repentance is. The repentant thief realized that he was a sinner, and that he was justly being punished according to law for the crime(s) he had committed, and he acknowledged his sinnership. Repentance unto salvation is “a change of mind.”

Romans 3:19, “Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.” God's law in the Old Testament was given as a measuring stick, by which when compared we fall short, plainly showing us our SINNERSHIP. Galatians 3:25-26, “Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.” The purpose of God's Law is to show us our need for the Savior. The repentant thief on the cross saw his need, and he believed on the dear Savior.

Whereas we see one thief on the cross still defiant against God (he said, “If thou be the Christ”), the other thief asked Jesus to remember him, which plainly evidences his faith in Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God. Jesus is THE WAY of salvation! John 20:31, “But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.” The thief on the cross repented and believed to be saved, that is, he acknowledged his sinnership in the eyes of God the Father and placed his faith in Jesus as the Christ.

Please notice that there was no way for the saved thief to be water baptized, not partake of Holy Communion. By the way, there's no such terms in the Bible as “HOLY Baptism” or “HOLY Communion.” Jesus instituted the two simple ordinances of Believer's Baptism and the Lord's Supper during His earthly life and ministry, as functions of discipleship (and not sonship). Getting water baptized is a believers first step of obedience as a new convert, which is the public profession of their faith. Water baptism manifests outwardly what has happened inwardly in the believer's heart, demonstrating their faith in Christ's death, burial and resurrection. Amen!
 

We Never Know

No Slack
Seems to me that picking and choosing is precisely what you're doing. I mean, why are you disregarding passages like these?

"In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity." Jeremiah 31:29-30

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him." Ezekiel 18:20

I don't blame you; the Bible is full of contradictions, so it's impossible to get a coherent message from it without disregarding some of it. Still, it's not cool to point fingers at someone else for doing what you're doing, too.
We all die, we all sin. However if jesus died for all mans sins...past, present and future, does sin really matter?
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
That has nothing directly to do with what I posted.

The teaching that baptism saves is not in the Bible. The Bible teaches that baptism is a sign for faith for people old enough to understand the gospel. Lesson 35: Why We Do Not Baptize Infants (Genesis 17 and other Scriptures) | Bible.org

Why we do not baptize infants:
We do not baptize infants because baptism is a public confession of faith in obedience to Christ.

The clear teaching of Scripture is that all who believe in Jesus as Savior and Lord should be baptized in obedience to Him. The New Testament order is always: The preaching of the gospel; faith in the gospel; then, baptism. Never once is there an example of baptism preceding faith as the norm to be followed. And there are no examples or commands concerning the baptism of the infants or yet unbelieving children of believing parents. Consider the following verses from Acts, noting the order of belief first, then baptism:

2:41: ... those who had received his word were baptized; ...

8:12: But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike.

8:36-38: And as they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?” [And Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”] And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch; and he baptized him.

While verse 37 [in brackets] lacks strong textual support in the earliest Greek manuscripts, its insertion in later manuscripts shows what the church held to be the necessary qualification for baptism.

10:44, 46b, 47, 48a: While Peter was still speaking these words [the gospel], the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.... Then Peter answered, “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

16:30-34: [The Philippian jailer asks Paul and Silas] “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved, you and your household. And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household. And he brought them into his house and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, having believed in God with his whole household.
 

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
I have not discounted reincarnation....
I have reason to hold off on that

otherwise......each birth is a NEW opportunity to form a unique spirit
I don't believe we are continuously reborn -but born once as humans and born once again as spirits.
However, our spirit is in us as humans -but we are not born completely new again. We retain what we gain as humans, but are transferred to a powerful spirit body.

(Marvel not that I said you must be born again...)
 
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