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How can the Jew reject, Jesus, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah?

S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
dybmh said:
The verses quote him saying he is not a prince of peace. His teachings brought war and division.

Matthew 10:34 Do not assume that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.

Luke 12:51 Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but division.

War - Spanish Inquisition - Wikipedia
Division - Nontrinitarianism - Wikipedia
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The context of Matthew 10:34 and Luke 12:51 is not that Jesus's teachings bring war and division. What did Jesus mean by coming to bring a sword in Matthew 10:34-36? | GotQuestions.org

In Matthew 10:34–36, Jesus said He had come at this time not to bring peace to the earth, but a sword, a weapon which divides and severs. As a result of His visit to the earth, some children would be set against parents and a man’s enemies might be those within his own household. This is because many who choose to follow Christ are hated by their family members. This may be part of the cost of discipleship, for love of family should not be greater than love for the Lord. A true disciple must take up his cross and follow Jesus (Matthew 16:24). He must be willing to face not only family hatred, but also death, like a criminal carrying his cross to his own execution. True followers of Christ must be willing to give up, even to the point of “hating” all that is in our lives, even our own families, if we are to be worthy of Him (Matthew 10:37–39). In so doing, we find our lives in return for having given them up to Jesus Christ.
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Wihat do the mistakes of the church have to do with Jesus being the Messiah?
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
dybmh said:
Even if you're right, that's what happened.

Because his teachings didn't bring peace. They brought the sword and division.
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When Jesus said his teachings didn't bring peace, he wasn't talking about the mistakes of the church. People confuse the sinful nature of human beings with what Jesus taught.
 
dybmh

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Skywalker said:
When Jesus said his teachings didn't bring peace, he wasn't talking about the mistakes of the church. People confuse the sinful nature of human beings with what Jesus taught.
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Do you exclude yourself from this confusion?
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
dybmh said:
Do you exclude yourself from this confusion?
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The mistakes that the church made have nothing to do with what Jesus taught. They acted contrary to the teachings of Jesus, but some didn't. Some Christians protected Jewish people during the Holocaust and the monk Kolbe died to protect another prisoner.
 
dybmh

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Skywalker said:
The mistakes that the church made have nothing to do with what Jesus taught. They acted contrary to the teachings of Jesus, but some didn't. Some Christians protected Jewish people during the Holocaust and the monk Kolbe died to protect another prisoner.
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Christianity and violence - Wikipedia

"The statement attributed to Jesus "I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" has been interpreted by some as a call to arms for Christians.[19] Mark Juergensmeyer argues that "despite its central tenets of love and peace, Christianity—like most traditions—has always had a violent side. The bloody history of the tradition has provided disturbing images and violent conflict is vividly portrayed in the Bible. This history and these biblical images have provided the raw material for theologically justifying the violence of contemporary Christian groups. For example, attacks on abortion clinics have been viewed not only as assaults on a practice that Christians regard as immoral, but also as skirmishes in a grand confrontation between forces of evil and good that has social and political implications.",[19]:19–20 sometimes referred to as Spiritual warfare."
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
dybmh said:
Christianity and violence - Wikipedia

"The statement attributed to Jesus "I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" has been interpreted by some as a call to arms for Christians.[19] Mark Juergensmeyer argues that "despite its central tenets of love and peace, Christianity—like most traditions—has always had a violent side. The bloody history of the tradition has provided disturbing images and violent conflict is vividly portrayed in the Bible. This history and these biblical images have provided the raw material for theologically justifying the violence of contemporary Christian groups. For example, attacks on abortion clinics have been viewed not only as assaults on a practice that Christians regard as immoral, but also as skirmishes in a grand confrontation between forces of evil and good that has social and political implications.",[19]:19–20 sometimes referred to as Spiritual warfare."
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People use the Bible to justify what is convenient for them and they went against the tenets of love and peace that Jesus taught. Violence against abortion clinics are contrary to the teachings of Jesus because Jesus said to love one another and not to judge. Spiritual warfare is spiritual truth, not playing Lord of the rings games of getting into confrontations with demons. Only Jesus had authority over demons in the Bible. People who try to take authority over demons are following manmade traditions that are contrary to what Jesus taught. The mistakes of the church have nothing to do with having a relationship with God.
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
dybmh said:
Do you exclude yourself from this?
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The sinful nature of human beings have nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus Christ. I used to attend a church where they did name it and claim it and I stopped going because I knew it wasn't right.
 
TransmutingSoul

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Skywalker said:
Christians don't always follow the teachings of Jesus because they are human beings who make mistakes like everyone else.
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If the teachings of Jesus point to 3 more Messengers, that is Muhammad the Bab and Baha'u'llah, the quandary is then manifest.

It is the OP after all.

Regards Tony
 
dybmh

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Skywalker said:
I make mistakes every day like everyone else and will make mistakes. What does the Old or New Testament have to do with that?
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Well, I think you're making a few mistakes assessing how, when, and where human sinful nature was taught in the NT. I also think you're making some mistakes interpretting verses from Torah, as well as discerning whether or not the hero in the NT is flawed.

Tragic hero - Wikipedia
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
dybmh said:
Well, I think you're making a few mistakes assessing how, when, and where human sinful nature was taught in the NT. I also think you're making some mistakes interpretting verses from Torah, as well as discerning whether or not the hero in the NT is flawed.

Tragic hero - Wikipedia
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What would I have to gain by believing in Jesus? Believing in Jesus believes in seeking God and praying and making God a part of your life. It would be easier to follow name it and claim it theology or Old Testament law because making God a part of your life means striving to do the right thing and not be your own God.
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
dybmh said:
Eternal life
Salvation
Prophecy
Power to bless
Power to curse
Fellowship
Purpose
Validation
etc..
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We would be to follow Jesus even if there was no heaven. The Apostle John would have followed Jesus even if he was going to hell. 6 Bible verses about The Beloved Disciple

John 21:20
Peter, turning around, *saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them; the one who also had leaned back on His bosom at the supper and said, “Lord, who is the one who betrays You?”
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6 Bible verses about The Beloved Disciple

The prophets in the Old Testament warned people to repent they didn't tell people their future like they were a tarot card reader.
 
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