Everybody who contributes to herd immunity is helping everybody else. The pandemic won't end until a tipping point is reached in which the prevalence of the virus in the community is sufficiently low that even unvaccinated people are unlikely to encounter or contract it.
I asked: “Just how are those who are taking the vaccine doing that for other people?”
I was asking about their
motives for getting the vaccine, not about how it contributes to herd immunity.
Long-term prospects for the pandemic probably include COVID-19 becoming an endemic disease, much like influenza. But in the near term, scientists are contemplating a new normal that does not include herd immunity. Here are some of the reasons behind this mindset, and what they mean for the next year of the pandemic.
Five reasons why COVID herd immunity is probably impossible
No. What I am saying is that you have a moral duty to get vaccinated unless you have a medical contraindication, and when I say that, I don't mean a self-diagnosis.
Only God tells me what my moral duty is.
If all that is stopping you is fear and uncertainty, and you succumb to that and make decisions based on that, there is nothing there to be proud of.
That is just another way of saying that all people who choose not to be vaccinated should be ashamed. Why not just say it outright, afraid of a moderator note?
Fear and uncertainty are not
the only reasons why a person would not want the vaccine, but even if those were the reasons they are nothing to be ashamed of. Imo, the people who should be ashamed are the self-righteous people who are trying to legislate morally for everyone else.
Did you get a rubella vaccine (you may know rubella as German measles)? If so, do you know who you did it for? Not yourself, nor anybody else alive at the time. Do you have children? No need to answer, but if you do, that's who you took it for. Rubella ceased being a threat to you once you were born.
How is that relevant to what I said? No, I never got a vaccine in my life and I don’t have children.
I said: “If the shoe was on the other foot and people were asked to do something that that they did not want to do, something that provided no benefit to themselves, in order to help others, you would find out how quickly they would rebel and refuse.”
Do you want to argue that point? Can you prove that people are getting the vaccine as some kind of heroic act? Can you prove that most all people are not selfishly running to get the vaccine to save themselves (and maybe their immediate families) and so they can safely engage in activities like ball games and concerts? How is that heroic?
Can you achieve total isolation from humanity? I think I recall you talking about going to the market, which is more human contact than I've had in over a year until three weeks ago, when I had to go out to receive my first injection of vaccine.
I do not need to be totally isolated in order to not pose a risk to other people. I have a mask and am socially distant when I go grocery shipping late at night when there are about three people left in the store. I just heard on the news that the risk of the virus living in surfaces is slim to none. Should I just stay home and not eat because I might hurt someone in a car accident on the way to the store?
We don't shop because we have access to a service that will shop for us and deliver our purchases to our home, but they do not come inside the house. Their money is already outside waiting for them, where they leave the groceries, and we shout gracias and adios through a closed glass door with everybody masked, going out to wipe down the perishables and bring them in about 30 minutes after they've left. That's the best we could do, but it was enough. Neither of us got sick.
That sounds like a lot of fear to me. If you want to think that way and live that way that is your own business, but what I think and do is my own business. My husband and I have been going to grocery stores twice a week since March 2020, but he stays in the car. Neither one of us has gotten sick. The only other place we have gone is to the bank a couple of times and to the vet clinics where we remain in the car.
I am hoping to not have to live like that. You seem to suggest that you already do, did so before the pandemic, and will continue to do so after it passes. If so, your circumstances might be unique.
Yes, my circumstances are different from most people. My routine has hardly changed at all. I cannot say what I will do in the future as I never think ahead or plan anything. I just live one day at a time.
I expect to begin having human contact two weeks after the second shot, but only with small numbers of other vaccinated people at one of our homes, as well as ordering restaurant delivery for the first time in a year. If within a month or two, vaccinated people reentering society more fully than we are doing well, we will likely begin visiting public spaces. If the visit is for longer than it takes to buy vegetables or fill prescriptions, then it will have to be a place that provides protection from other customers that are not vaccinated either by excluding them from entering or sequestering them in remote unvaccinated sections, and preferably outdoor seating.
If you are fully vaccinated why do you need protection from those who are not vaccinated?
I am glad to hear that you will be able to resume normal activities that you enjoy. Even if my husband and I were fully vaccinated that would not change our lifestyle. I am not saying I like our lifestyle but I cannot change my husband. He has no interest in doing anything outside the house and I don’t like going places alone. The only thing that would change my lifestyle is if he died or we got a divorce. So there you have it. Do you want to live that way? Divorce is not an option. And you think I am worried about getting Covid? If I am worried about anything I am worried about how much longer I can live this way, to be honest. I try to repress these feelings but now I am in tears. It is a hopeless situation and there is no solution unless God steps in, and we all know the chance of that happening.
However, if I did not believe in God and an afterlife then I would feel really hopeless.
The virus doesn't prevent infection or mild illness, and it may not prevent spreading virus in those who take it. I had a nice Facebook chat yesterday who chastised me for taking a vaccine that might not prevent infection or transmission after somebody else posted that the vaccine doesn't prevent disease or transmission.
I didn't feel like telling him what the value of the vaccine was. I knew it would be pointless, and frankly, I'm losing interest in helping such people even if I can.
That is one reason I never go on Facebook. No, you should not waste your time trying to help people like that.
But you are nothing like this guy, and so I am happy to share with you. The value of the vaccine is in its preventing severe disease and death, not minor illness, which it also does, but not as well. The numbers like "90% effective" apply to the chances of acquiring the virus once fully immunized, which frankly, aren't good enough to expect to avoid contracting this virus unless it disappears quickly, which the news lets you know won't be happening. I expect to get COVID, but probably from contact with an unvaccinated person, since the prevalence of the virus will be nine times higher in such people than in the vaccinated. But that's OK. I can handle a brief, nonthreatening respiratory illness.
Thanks for that information. I did not know you could get Covid after you have been vaccinated.
The numbers that really count - rate of prevention of severe and lethal disease - are effectively 100%. That's what we should be looking at.
I fully agree, and if I was in contact with people I would want the vaccine. Right now I am not but that could change in the future. Right now my biggest worries are now I am going get the money owed to me by one of my tenants as he now owes me over 13,000. He needs to at least start paying some of it or I will have to file a lawsuit. My other biggest worry is a cat that has an upcoming vet appointment to have her teeth cleaned.
I just saw a story on the news last night (can't find it on the Internet) about an American family of four. She was already fully vaccinated when their children brought COVID home, and everybody became infected. After some prodding by his wife, the man had actually scheduled his first jab, but felt ill and decided to get a COVID test instead, which was positive, so no shot. He was too late.
Yes, I see some of the stories on TV. People who are going to and fro and know they are going to have contact with others should get vaccinated, especially if they have a family. I consider it irresponsible not to do so.
He nearly died. The kids, who also tested positive, did well, as did the vaccinated wife. They all became ill, but just a mild flu-like illness. He ended up in the ICU. Just an anecdote at this point, but if we see more of this kind of thing, it will reveal the value of the vaccine. It did not prevent her from getting sick while living with three infected people, but it may have saved her life or an ICU visit.
I do not think we need to see this kind thing to know that the vaccine is warranted for people who are exposed to other people outside the home.
Yes, but the vaccinated person, who cannot prevent acquiring the disease herself, will likely survive. The unvaccinated person she gave it to may not fare quite as well, but that's on him, since he chose to not be vaccinated. He was probably afraid, like the guy in the anecdote above.
That is true. The vaccinated person will likely survive, as the evidence has shown, and the unvaccinated person has a lesser chance of faring well.
