Are you a born sinner? Is anyone?

[Colt]

No it is not news to Jesus. He did say that He is giving His life as a ransom for many and He did say that His blood is the blood of the New Covenant. You can ignore what Jesus said if you want I guess. It's up to you.
If you want Jesus to be nothing more than a messenger from the Father to tell people to have faith in the Father that is your business.
I don't think it is a good thing to ignore that however and make up your own theories about what the gospel should have been. It is what it is.
No doubt God would have loved it if the Jews had obeyed the laws and He would have loved it if Adam had not sinned and etc etc. God works with what He has and brings good out of situations even if the bad situations are ultimately the result of the devil's work in the world.
When you say that the original gospel of Jesus was contaminated by old ideas. If you mean the old ideas that God gave to the Jews about sacrifice and the old ideas that God put in the words of the prophets about someone who would suffer and be killed to bear our sins, then yes the Gospel is completely contaminated with those ideas and they are God's ideas.
It is God who tells us how things are and what He is doing. If we don't like it then we can come to the Father as the Jews do, without the intercession of Jesus the High Priest in the order of Melchizedek who was appointed by His Father and offered His own life as sacrifice.

Melchizedek attempted to get people away from Blood Sacrifice by substituting "bread and wine".

Genesis 14:19-19

"Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine—since he was priest of God Most High — and he blessed Abram and said......"

I don't think its a good to root for the death of Jesus on the cross along with the devil because you cant face your own sins.

Jesus never used the word intercession either.

The reason that Jesus was misremembered saying he was a "ransom" , which was in conflict with his beat-down of those who plotted to kill him, is because Paul's Atonement preaching influenced recollection the writing of the Gospels.


43Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you are unable to accept My message. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out his desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, refusing to uphold the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, because he is a liar and the father of lies. 45But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me!

 

[Colt]

Jesus is the lamb of God to take away the sins of the world just like John the Baptist said and God showed him. Jesus did forgive sins, heal the sick, raise the dead to prove He was the Son of God, Emmanuel. This didn’t deal with the need for people to be born again or death inherited from Adam. That’s why He had to die, present His blood in the the true tabernacle in Heaven for us. Jesus is the once and for all eternal sacrifice for sin and death. The New Testament after Jesus rose is the whole Gospel and ministry of the Holy Spirit, not a false teaching of Paul or anything of the sort.

“Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged. “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:7-15‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Having accepted Jesus' sacrifice to pay for your sins, what do you do if you sin again? Can you sin endlessly with the belief that its all covered by Jesus?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Having accepted Jesus' sacrifice to pay for your sins, what do you do if you sin again? Can you sin endlessly with the belief that its all covered by Jesus?

Why would you want to continue to sin once you’re born again? Don’t even want or desire that, my desire is to please God. If anyone is in Christ he is a new creation, the old is passed the new has come. This is what happened. I don’t practice or live a sinful life anymore or desire that in any way. Walk in the Spirit and led by Him now.
“This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.”
‭‭I John‬ ‭1:5-10‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[Colt]

Why would you want to continue to sin once you’re born again? Don’t even want or desire that, my desire is to please God. If anyone is in Christ he is a new creation, the old is passed the new has come. This is what happened. I don’t practice or live a sinful life anymore or desire that in any way. Walk in the Spirit and led by Him now.
“This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.”
‭‭I John‬ ‭1:5-10‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Can you answer the question without a sermon?

Having accepted Jesus' sacrifice to pay for your sins, what do you do if you sin again? Can you sin endlessly with the belief that its all covered by Jesus?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Can you answer the question without a sermon?

Having accepted Jesus' sacrifice to pay for your sins, what do you do if you sin again? Can you sin endlessly with the belief that its all covered by Jesus?

You can’t understand what I said?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Can you answer the question without a sermon?

Having accepted Jesus' sacrifice to pay for your sins, what do you do if you sin again? Can you sin endlessly with the belief that its all covered by Jesus?

“What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6

 

[Colt]

You can’t understand what I said?

I understood your sermon and I understand that you are avoiding answering the question. So I will ask for a 3rd time:

Having accepted Jesus' sacrifice to pay for your sins, what do you do if you sin again? Can you sin endlessly with the belief that its all covered by Jesus?

 

[ElishaElijah]

I understood your sermon and I understand that you are avoiding answering the question. So I will ask for a 3rd time:

Having accepted Jesus' sacrifice to pay for your sins, what do you do if you sin again? Can you sin endlessly with the belief that its all covered by Jesus?

If a person says they are born again yet live a life of willfully sinning you are lying about being born again. So not sure what you mean by your question. It’s obvious by the Scriptures what I mean.

 

[Colt]

If a person says they are born again yet live a life of willfully sinning you are lying about being born again. So not sure what you mean by your question. It’s obvious by the Scriptures what I mean.

Have you sinned since being born again? If so what did you do about it?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Have you sinned since being born again? If so what did you do about it?

By Jesus Christ sacrifice He has provided eternal redemption once and for all. He is the Mediator and Advocate with the Father for all my sin, past, present and future. So if I sin now I confess and forsake my sin and the blood of Jesus cleanses me.

“But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:11-15, 24-28‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[Colt]

By Jesus Christ sacrifice He has provided eternal redemption once and for all. He is the Mediator and Advocate with the Father for all my sin, past, present and future. So if I sin now I confess and forsake my sin and the blood of Jesus cleanses me.



“But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:11-15, 24-28‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Ok, I see you are incapable of giving a simple honest answer to the questions and for obvious reasons.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Ok, I see you are incapable of giving a simple honest answer to the questions and for obvious reasons.

It’s because of you brother, a simple answer won’t do without you putting a meaning to the comment that is twisted.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Ok, I see you are incapable of giving a simple honest answer to the questions and for obvious reasons.

And I gave you the honest answer

 

[Brian2]

Melchizedek attempted to get people away from Blood Sacrifice by substituting "bread and wine".

Genesis 14:19-19

"Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine—since he was priest of God Most High — and he blessed Abram and said......"

I don't think its a good to root for the death of Jesus on the cross along with the devil because you cant face your own sins.

Jesus never used the word intercession either.

The reason that Jesus was misremembered saying he was a "ransom" , which was in conflict with his beat-down of those who plotted to kill him, is because Paul's Atonement preaching influenced recollection the writing of the Gospels.


43Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you are unable to accept My message. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out his desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, refusing to uphold the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, because he is a liar and the father of lies. 45But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me!

Jesus death defeated Satan and his works. Satan was for killing us humans and the crucifixion enables us to have eternal life.
You sort of come across as a Christian who needs to be taught a bit about the Bible but it seems that you are just opposed to what the Bible tells us.

 

[Colt]

Jesus death defeated Satan and his works. Satan was for killing us humans and the crucifixion enables us to have eternal life.
You sort of come across as a Christian who needs to be taught a bit about the Bible but it seems that you are just opposed to what the Bible tells us.

"Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you are unable to accept My message. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out his desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, refusing to uphold the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, because he is a liar and the father of lies. 45But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me!"

Your theory is in conflict with the fact that rejecting the Original Gospel and killing Jesus was the will of the devil. You don't make any sense.

You come across as a Christian who bought the conflicting party line without considering what Jesus actually said. I'm aware that the Bible has many conflicts because in the NT there are (2) different Gospels actually being taught.

 

[ElishaElijah]

"Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you are unable to accept My message. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out his desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, refusing to uphold the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, because he is a liar and the father of lies. 45But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me!"

Your theory is in conflict with the fact that rejecting the Original Gospel and killing Jesus was the will of the devil. You don't make any sense.

You come across as a Christian who bought the conflicting party line without considering what Jesus actually said. I'm aware that the Bible has many conflicts because in the NT there are (2) different Gospels actually being taught.

““Now My soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save Me from this hour’? But for this purpose I came to this hour. Father, glorify Your name.” Then a voice came from heaven, saying, “I have both glorified it and will glorify it again.” Therefore the people who stood by and heard it said that it had thundered. Others said, “An angel has spoken to Him.” Jesus answered and said, “This voice did not come because of Me, but for your sake. Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” This He said, signifying by what death He would die.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:27-33‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[ElishaElijah]

@cOLTER
“No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:13-17‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Not sure why you can’t see what Jesus was saying and communicating. Actually what God has been communicating all through Scripture. Jesus knew all along He was going to be crucified and rise from the dead for our sins. If there was a different way other than being crucified He wouldn’t have been.


“But Jesus said to him, “Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword. Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels? How then could the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must happen thus?” In that hour Jesus said to the multitudes, “Have you come out, as against a robber, with swords and clubs to take Me? I sat daily with you, teaching in the temple, and you did not seize Me. But all this was done that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled.” Then all the disciples forsook Him and fled.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:52-56‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[Colt]

"He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him"​

If the Israelites would have received the answer to Abrahams faith, they would be preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom today from the Temple Mount. The son of God would have relinquished his mortal flesh and returned to his rightful place on high. Was it predictable that his message and his Father would be largely rejected by backward religious people? Yes. They still reject the simple Gospel today.

 

[Colt]

Back to the topic of original sin, Adam and Eve weren't perfect obviously and neither was Lucifer & company. It is because the Father is forgiving and merciful Lucifer was allowed to fall into rebellion. A time lag of justice was afforded Lucifer to allow him to repent and return to the fold.

Adam arrived on a previously populated, fallen earth. Cain feared people out away from his tribe. The Crafty Beast was already evil, already working against Gods will for the couple. So we inherit an environment effected by the fall of leadership, but sin is a knowing choice not an inheritance. Death came specifically to Adam and Eve, not the entire human race. The earth would be very crowded if there was no death.

 

[Etritonakin]

yeah.....and however

it was the serpent in the garden that pointed out to Eve....
and you will become as heaven
if you partake of the fruit

it was the Carpenter who gave instruction....
Be thou perfect.....as your Father in heaven is perfect

which side of the fence are we on?

Someone here once asked me if my buttocks hurt from sitting on the fence....
but it affords the best view.

Actually, it was not "as heaven", but like God "knowing BOTH good AND evil" -as opposed to knowing ONLY good -and there is a difference between knowing and doing.
When they did evil, they would learn from it (not to have done it in the first place -which was unlikely) -and become wise like God -who knows not to do it already (which becomes a bit confusing to us as he allowed evil temporarily while making us like him by the process -and even technically purposes evil toward that end).

Had Satan, demons, Adam, Eve, so on, taken the fast track to the tree of life and extreme power, ability, knowledge, etc -and not sinned, they could have learned the easy way....
and God would not have had to purpose evil in order to minimize it overall -and completely eradicate any future potential for it.

However, Satan, etc., were restrained and man was cut off from the tree of life after the allowed interaction which gave them a choice.

Thing is, if any had truly known God, they would not have been tempted to disbelieve or disobey ....but that is like asking to be born -not really a thing.
So -as God is quoted as saying... and for this purpose... THAT THEY MAY KNOW THAT I AM THE LORD, AND THERE IS NONE ELSE.... I FORM THE LIGHT AND CREATE EVIL...

By minimizing and localizing our power to err and harm -yet allowing it to reach its logical conclusion as quickly as possible (no flesh saved alive), we learn about the particulars of the creation of God by the corruption thereof (too complicated and unmanageable for newbies -realizing we need him) -and also eventually know who God really is / realize God has our best interest at heart, should be obeyed and offers more than we can imagine in terms of literally everything....

....if we just act right.

So...... we could have known only good and been way advanced in all things... but we needed to get this out of our systems.

NOW WE are nearing the point (after a really rough patch ahead) of knowing both good and evil like God -but also doing only good.