Are you a born sinner? Is anyone?

[ElishaElijah]

Clear as mud. Blood atonement is Pagan and contaminated Judaism. Isaiah lamented over the ridiculous practice.

Isaiah 1:10-20


Meaningless Offerings

10Hear the word of the LORD,

you rulers of Sodom;

listen to the instruction of our God,

you people of Gomorrah!11“What good to Me is your multitude of sacrifices?”

says the LORD.

“I am full from the burnt offerings of rams

and the fat of well-fed cattle;

I take no delight in the blood of bulls

and lambs and goats.12When you come to appear before Me,

who has required this of you—

this trampling of My courts?13Bring your worthless offerings no more;

your incense is detestable to Me—

your New Moons, Sabbaths, and convocations.

I cannot endure iniquity

in a solemn assembly.14I hate your New Moons

and your appointed feasts.

They have become a burden to Me;

I am weary of bearing them.15When you spread out your hands in prayer,

I will hide My eyes from you;

even though you multiply your prayers,

I will not listen.

Your hands are covered with blood.16Wash and cleanse yourselves.

Remove your evil deeds from My sight.

Stop doing evil!17Learn to do right;

seek justice and correct the oppressor.c

Defend the fatherless

and plead the case of the widow.”18“Come now, let us reason together,”

says the LORD.

“Though your sins are like scarlet,

they will be as white as snow;

though they are as red as crimson,

they will become like wool.19If you are willing and obedient,

you will eat the best of the land.20But if you resist and rebel,

you will be devoured by the sword.”

Mud isn’t clear and God isn’t saying He is against Prayer or sacrifices. He is saying the sacrifices are worthless because of their sinful lifestyle. Would be the same today if a person receives Christ and continues in sexual immorality, dishonesty, worldly living etc.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Well, yes, as do you.

Wrong, I believe all the Bible is the Word of God, not parts of it.

 

[ElishaElijah]

That's your opinion, Jesus didn't teach atonement or sacrifice as a condition of his love for people. Jesus taught that God is a Loving Father. When Jesus loved and forgave people, he did not ask for birds and bunnies to be slaughtered as a condition of his love. God as a Father transcends God as a Judge.

The original "good news" of the original Gospel was that God is a forging Father, he loves us as a Father.

Going to be a problem if you don’t believe God as a judge:
““Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[Colt]

Going to be a problem if you don’t believe God as a judge:
““Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

He is a Judge, your problem is you don't know him as a Loving Father first. So you subscribe to the atonement scheme of substituting an innocent man in your place.

 

[Colt]

Wrong, I believe all the Bible is the Word of God, not parts of it.

No, you only believe in the parts that support your theology and ignore the parts that don't by necessity. You just pretend to believe all the Bible.

 

[ElishaElijah]

He is a Judge, your problem is you don't know him as a Loving Father first. So you subscribe to the atonement scheme of substituting an innocent man in your place.

Sure I know Him as a loving Father, Judge, Provider, Healer, My Righteousness, My King and Lord. He has adopted me into His family and made me an heir. He has done all this. He has given me His Spirit as a guarantee. His judgement that I deserved was placed on Christ and He gave me His righteousness. If He hasn’t done that for a person then they are still in their sin and the wrath of God rests on that person.

 

[Colt]

Sure I know Him as a loving Father, Judge, Provider, Healer, My Righteousness, My King and Lord. He has adopted me into His family and made me an heir. He has done all this. He has given me His Spirit as a guarantee. His judgement that I deserved was placed on Christ and He gave me His righteousness. If He hasn’t done that for a person then they are still in their sin and the wrath of God rests on that person.

Like the love someone in a dysfunctional family would have for an abusive Father. What you have is fear and glad-itude for the theory that someone else bore a penalty for sin that you aren't capable of openly admitting.

 

[ElishaElijah]

No, you only believe in the parts that support your theology and ignore the parts that don't by necessity. You just pretend to believe all the Bible.

Unlike you are showing, I got my theology from what the Holy Spirit teaches me from the whole Bible.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Like the love someone in a dysfunctional family would have for an abusive Father. What you have is fear and glad-itude for the theory that someone else bore a penalty for sin that you aren't capable of openly admitting.

Wrong brother

 

[Trailblazer]

What do you mean?please explain

Sorry, I was in a big hurry yesterday when I posted that.

natasha levchenko said: Although Adam was created to live forever, his sin brought upon him the penalty of death.

natasha levchenko said: In contrast, Jesus’ death not only removed the blemish of sin but also canceled the death sentence for all who exercise faith in him.

What I meant when I said "not in the Bible" is that the Bible does not say that Adam's sin brought the penalty of PHYSICAL death and that Jesus' death did not remove any sentence of PHYSICAL death such that we would rise from the grave at a later date and live in a physical body again, after we had died physically. Also, Jesus sacrificed Himself for the sins and inequities of mankind but Jesus knew nothing about any original sin committed by Adam and Eve. That is a Church doctrine that came about from a literal interpretation of the Bible and a misunderstanding of what the story meant. 30: ADAM AND EVE

Question.—In verse 22 of chapter 15 of 1 Corinthians it is written: “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” What is the meaning of these words?

Answer.—Know that there are two natures in man: the physical nature and the spiritual nature. The physical nature is inherited from Adam, and the spiritual nature is inherited from the Reality of the Word of God, which is the spirituality of Christ. The physical nature is born of Adam, but the spiritual nature is born from the bounty of the Holy Spirit. The first is the source of all imperfection; the second is the source of all perfection.

The Christ sacrificed Himself so that men might be freed from the imperfections of the physical nature and might become possessed of the virtues of the spiritual nature. This spiritual nature, which came into existence through the bounty of the Divine Reality, is the union of all perfections and appears through the breath of the Holy Spirit. It is the divine perfections; it is light, spirituality, guidance, exaltation, high aspiration, justice, love, grace, kindness to all, philanthropy, the essence of life. It is the reflection of the splendor of the Sun of Reality. Some Answered Questions, p. 118

Read more: 29: EXPLANATION OF VERSE TWENTY-TWO, CHAPTER FIFTEEN, OF THE FIRST EPISTLE OF ST. PAUL TO THE CORINTHIANS

 

[Colt]

Unlike you are showing, I got my theology from what the Holy Spirit teaches me from the whole Bible.

I get my theology from Jesus of Nazareth, the author and finisher of my faith before his Gospel was rejected.

But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I get my theology from Jesus of Nazareth, the author and finisher of my faith before his Gospel was rejected.

But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.

And you don’t know what Jesus meant by that and put your own meaning on that, Jesus said at the Passover when He instituted the New Covenant in His blood for the remission of sins, which is Jesus’ Gospel. If a person doesn’t receive Jesus as their atonement then they are still in their sin, this will be shown in that Day.

 

[Colt]

Jesus turning to them said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. For behold, the days are coming when they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never gave suck!’ Then they will begin to say to the mountains, ‘Fall on us’; and to the hills, ‘Cover us’. For if they do this when the wood is green, what will happen when it is dry?”
​

 

[Colt]

And you don’t know what Jesus meant by that and put your own meaning on that, Jesus said at the Passover when He instituted the New Covenant in His blood for the remission of sins, which is Jesus’ Gospel. If a person doesn’t receive Jesus as their atonement then they are still in their sin, this will be shown in that Day.

Jesus never taught the highlighted part, that was added later.

You are talking about the 2nd Gospel that emerged after Jesus left. Its the theory that Jesus came to be killed because his Father was incapable of forgiveness until Jesus was sacrificed back to his unjust Father.

We are forgiven as we forgive others as Jesus originally taught. I know the presence of Father and Son.

 

[Muffled]

Its said we are all born sinners but yet jesus died for all of man's sins... past, present and future....so how are we born sinners if jesus already died to wash away our present and future sins?

I believe we all are born sinners but not because we were born but because we carry that over from previous lives. I believe Jesus saves e from my sins because I asked Him to be my Lord and Savior. Not everyone has done that. That doesn't mean left to my own devices that I wouldn't sin. It takes a long time to unlearn sinful ways.

 

[Muffled]

I have no issues with people being born sinners... just leave me out of it

I believe for you to be a nobody then you must cease to exist and you don't have the power to make that happen.

 

[Muffled]

(Romans 5:12). Every one of us was affected by Adam’s sin; there are no exceptions. “One trespass resulted in condemnation for all people” (verse 18). We are all sinners, and we all share the same condemnation, because we are all children of Adam.

I believe that is false. There is no way for Adam to convey sin to other people and that verse is not saying that.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Jesus never taught the highlighted part, that was added later.

You are talking about the 2nd Gospel that emerged after Jesus left. Its the theory that Jesus came to be killed because his Father was incapable of forgiveness until Jesus was sacrificed back to his unjust Father.

We are forgiven as we forgive others as Jesus originally taught. I know the presence of Father and Son.

View attachment 49008

I heard people say god just ignores sin and forgives everyone like an unjust judge that lets criminals go free. That’s no gospel and not what Jesus taught or why He came. Are you saying your gospel is if you’re guilty of crimes against God, you will be forgiven if you forgive others?

 

[Colt]

I heard people say god just ignores sin and forgives everyone like an unjust judge that lets criminals go free. That’s no gospel and not what Jesus taught or why He came. Are you saying your gospel is if you’re guilty of crimes against God, you will be forgiven if you forgive others?

I don't believe that. An unrepentant person who finally rejects Gods forgiveness and will wont be saved.

A real injustice is a Judge who would knowingly sentence an innocent person to death to satisfy justice.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I don't believe that. An unrepentant person who finally rejects Gods forgiveness and will wont be saved.

A real injustice is a Judge who would knowingly sentence an innocent person to death to satisfy justice.

That’s where you missed it, the innocent party is God

I don't believe that. An unrepentant person who finally rejects Gods forgiveness and will wont be saved.

A real injustice is a Judge who would knowingly sentence an innocent person to death to satisfy justice.

That’s not what He did...He paid the price Himself, that’s the Gospel and what love is.
“Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:13‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

“God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭1:1-4‬ ‭NKJV‬‬