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Religious views on abortion

U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I was thinking from the other thread-to religious people only (which doesn't mean you have to believe in god)-what does your religious practice, tradition, scripture, "so have you" say about the value of life in relation to abortion?

In non-scripture focused religions, does your decision about abortion stim from morality you picked up in your practice, a societal law you agree with (if for or against), what are your standards that help you decide either way?

This is to those who do have an "either/or" scenario-justifications are fine but the justifications need to be backed up with reason(s) based on your practice or faith.

Those not religious, I can tell by the other thread what many of you believe... so...
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Unveiled Artist said:
I was thinking from the other thread-to religious people only (which doesn't mean you have to believe in god)-what does your religious practice, tradition, scripture, "so have you" say about the value of life in relation to abortion?..................
Click to expand...
In the Bible abortion is a HIGH crime when the purpose for abortion is for selfish reasons.
When mother and doctor act as executioner judging that the unborn is Not worthy of life for selfish reasons.
 
SomeRandom

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Unveiled Artist said:
I was thinking from the other thread-to religious people only (which doesn't mean you have to believe in god)-what does your religious practice, tradition, scripture, "so have you" say about the value of life in relation to abortion?

In non-scripture focused religions, does your decision about abortion stim from morality you picked up in your practice, a societal law you agree with (if for or against), what are your standards that help you decide either way?

This is to those who do have an "either/or" scenario-justifications are fine but the justifications need to be backed up with reason(s) based on your practice or faith.

Those not religious, I can tell by the other thread what many of you believe... so...
Click to expand...
My position is based on my understanding of Dharma and my own ethical values.
Pro choice all the way
 
Orbit

Orbit

I'm a planet
Have you ever heard of an ectopic pregnancy? It happens when a blastula begins to develop in a Fallopian tube instead of in the womb. It is not a viable pregnancy, will never result in a baby but if you allow it to continue it will burst the tube and kill the mother. Abortion is the only treatment. The abortion "debate" is silent about such cases of medical necessity.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
URAVIP2ME said:
In the Bible abortion is a HIGH crime when the purpose for abortion is for selfish reasons.
When mother and doctor act as executioner judging that the unborn is Not worthy of life for selfish reasons.
Click to expand...

Are there unselfish reasons to abort that the bible supports?
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Unveiled Artist said:
Are there unselfish reasons to abort that the bible supports?
Click to expand...
Since we are imperfect un-avoidable abortion could be necessary because of an accident, infectious diseases,etc.
It would be the 'degree of deliberateness' involved with the reason for the decision.
In other words, the sole purpose for the decision is just Not to avoid birth.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
URAVIP2ME said:
Since we are imperfect un-avoidable abortion could be necessary because of an accident, infectious diseases,etc.
It would be the 'degree of deliberateness' involved with the reason for the decision.
In other words, the sole purpose for the decision is just Not to avoid birth.
Click to expand...

Does the bible address whether abortion is justified in certain circumstances?
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone said:
I have never seen any verses that support this claim. Please quote and link such verses.
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The most common is found at Exodus 21:22-23
If a men should struggle with each other and hurt a pregnant woman.... and a fatality does happen, then it is 'life for life '.
Taking an un-born's life was a capital offence.
Leviticus 24:17 says if a man takes a human life he would be put to death...
Even going back to Genesis 9:6 it is wrong to shed man's blood.....
The un-born is considered as already human life according to Psalms 139:16 because God sees even the embryo...
So, there is Nothing about the age or stage of the embryo/ fetus being a factor in God's judgement.
It was considered as an horrendous act to cut open a pregnant woman - Amos 1:13; 2 Kings 15:16.
King Solomon was considered as wise for his judgement according to 1 Kings 3:16-18.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Unveiled Artist said:
Does the bible address whether abortion is justified in certain circumstances?
Click to expand...
Un-avoidable accidents would Not be deliberate intent.
Infectious diseases would Not be deliberate intent.
Neither of which is a selfish or sinful reason.
In Scripture the consideration of the judges would be taken into account - Numbers 35:22-24; Numbers 35:31.
Judges were involved to consider the deliberateness of the circumstances.
Kind of like with sin in general:
Sin is either: on purpose or not, deliberate or not, intentional or not, willful or not, premeditated or not......
So, each person would have to decide their intent and the reasons behind the actions.
Their intent rests between the person and God.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
URAVIP2ME said:
The most common is found at Exodus 21:22-23
If a men should struggle with each other and hurt a pregnant woman.... and a fatality does happen, then it is 'life for life '.
Taking an un-born's life was a capital offence.
Leviticus 24:17 says if a man takes a human life he would be put to death...
Even going back to Genesis 9:6 it is wrong to shed man's blood.....
The un-born is considered as already human life according to Psalms 139:16 because God sees even the embryo...
So, there is Nothing about the age or stage of the embryo/ fetus being a factor in God's judgement.
It was considered as an horrendous act to cut open a pregnant woman - Amos 1:13; 2 Kings 15:16.
King Solomon was considered as wise for his judgement according to 1 Kings 3:16-18.
Click to expand...
Your first one is a mistranslation. And the mistranslation became popular after the Roe v Wade case. I might have to see if I can find the article that explains that. That verse actually states that the loss of a fetus is only a monetary fine. The "eye for an eye" was for harm done to the woman.

I will see if I can find it if you like.
 
Quintessence

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
It would probably be inappropriate to call the various sources of inspiration for my tradition "scripture" but the most important mythology comes from what is sometimes called the Universe Story. It is grounded in hard science and a non-anthropocentric view of reality. This contrasts starkly to prevailing narratives in my surrounding culture, where life, and especially human life, is put on a pedestal. My tradition cautions against such things. Life does not have special significance - or rather, it is not any more or less significant than anything else in this sacred, wondrous, divine reality of we are interwoven with.

Against that backdrop, at best, I find the fussing over human abortions peculiar. Add to this a second backdrop - one that recognizes how humans have been responsible for a sixth mass extinction event and continue to be overpopulated as a species. I simply cannot take any arguments against human abortion seriously in light of these things. That's without taking into account other backdrops, like the fact that spontaneous abortions are routine in biological organisms of all sorts. That's without taking into account what the criminal penalties would look like for human women who have abortions, and how it would be determined if it was spontaneous or not. That's without having a more mature acceptance of death being an essential part of reality.

The only leg that obsession with human life has to stand on in my tradition is that my tradition also teaches that we get to choose our gods or what we deify. Many humans put themselves on a pedestal - they worship humanity, even if that isn't the language they put to it. Humanism is a fair choice to make and it is certainly a popular one even if it is not a devotional path I share. How human worship squares with sacrificing women on the proverbial altar of purity on the issue of human abortion is... well, I don't understand it. It's illogical, even from within a framework of humanism.
 
McBell

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
Subduction Zone said:
Your first one is a mistranslation. And the mistranslation became popular after the Roe v Wade case. I might have to see if I can find the article that explains that. That verse actually states that the loss of a fetus is only a monetary fine. The "eye for an eye" was for harm done to the woman.

I will see if I can find it if you like.
Click to expand...
First link post #12:

The text that served as the basis for later discussion in Jewish tradition is in Exodus, whose 21st chapter reads (in Hebrew): “When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage, but no other harm occurs,” there is a financial penalty.

The Greek translation of this verse is quite different, in line with Greek views about the beginning of life: “If two men fight and strike a pregnant woman and her child comes out not fully formed, he (the striker) will be forced to pay a penalty. But if it is fully formed, he shall give life for life.” A person who kills a “fully formed” baby is subject to the death penalty, as a murderer would be. If the baby was not fully formed, the penalty is financial, as was typical for property crimes.

This translation has been interpreted to mean that by implication, the permissibility of abortion, too, depends on whether the fetus is fully formed.
​
What does the Bible really say about abortion?​
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Mestemia said:
Many people twist Exodus 21:22-23 to fit their pro-life agenda much like taking Genesis 38:8-10 and twisting it to be anti-masturbation.
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Well the ^ above ^ is a new one for me.
This could Not be an anti-masturbation because Onan did Have relations with her.
It was coitus interruptus and Not for what was called as self-abuse.

Exodus 21:22-23 carried with it the death penalty so yes it does fit a pro-life agenda -> Psalms 139:13-16
The difference is the intent for the abortion. It is a HIGH crime in God's eyes for 'selfish' reasons.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Mestemia said:
First link post #12:

The text that served as the basis for later discussion in Jewish tradition is in Exodus, whose 21st chapter reads (in Hebrew): “When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage, but no other harm occurs,” there is a financial penalty.

The Greek translation of this verse is quite different, in line with Greek views about the beginning of life: “If two men fight and strike a pregnant woman and her child comes out not fully formed, he (the striker) will be forced to pay a penalty. But if it is fully formed, he shall give life for life.” A person who kills a “fully formed” baby is subject to the death penalty, as a murderer would be. If the baby was not fully formed, the penalty is financial, as was typical for property crimes.

This translation has been interpreted to mean that by implication, the permissibility of abortion, too, depends on whether the fetus is fully formed.
​
What does the Bible really say about abortion?​
Click to expand...
And like I said that appears to be a mistranslation of the Jewish text. The error comes from relying on the Septuagint. Now I need to find the article that explains that.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Mestemia said:
No.The Bible does not address abortion at all...........
Click to expand...
An injured woman could end up aborting her unborn because of the wrong actions of another- Exodus 21:23
The unborn was considered as life, so it would be life for life - Numbers 35:31; Leviticus 24:17.
 
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