430 years

[The Anointed]

I have been told by someone on this forum, who claims to be an orthodox Jew, that most Orthodox Jews, believe that the Israelites were Egypt for 210 years.

Why would they believe that, when their own bible states in Exodus 12: 40; that the Israelites were in the land of Egypt for 430 years to the day? We know that the Septuagint states that Abraham and his descendants were in the land of Canaan ‘AND’ Egypt, for 430 years to the day, and we know that Abraham and his descendants were in the land of Canaan for 215 years before moving into the land of Egypt.

Knowing that Abraham was 75 when he moved into the land of Canaan and 25 years later Isaac was born, who was 60 when he sired Jacob, whose name was changed to ‘Israel’ who at the age of 130 took his entire family into the land of Egypt, 25+60+130=215 years in the land of Canaan, which would leave 215 years in the land of Egypt, before Moses lead them out, 430 years to the day from when God made his first promise to Abraham, that if he would leave his father’s household and travel into the land of Canaan he would give that Land to him as an everlasting inheritance.

I can’t make sense of the fact that most Orthodox Jews have come to the conclusion that Israel was in the land of Egypt for 210 years, can anyone inform me as to how they might have come to that conclusion?

 

[Harel13]

I have been told by someone on this forum, who claims to be an orthodox Jew, that most Orthodox Jews, believe that the Israelites were Egypt for 210 years.

That was me! Thank you, thank you. Hold your applause.

Seriously, though, you could have just requested I explain the position.
I'll be happy to explain it to you when I'm near my computer, if no one else explains before that.

 

[The Anointed]

That was me! Thank you, thank you. Hold your applause.

Seriously, though, you could have just requested I explain the position.
I'll be happy to explain it to you when I'm near my computer, if no one else explains before that.

How did you create your response if not on your computer?

Not that an Orthodox Jews would be too interested in what Paul had to say on the subject. but in Galatians 3:17; he stated that there was a period of 430 years between the promise God made to Abraham and when the Law was given through the 80 years old Moses, and Abraham was 75 before the law was given 430 years later.

 

[Harel13]

How did you create your response if not on your computer?

My phone. There some posts that I prefer writing in a more comfortable and level-headed setting, so I wait until I get back to my computer.

Not that an Orthodox Jews would be too interested in what Paul had to say on the subject. but in Galatians 3:17; he stated that there was a period of 430 years between the promise God made to Abraham and when the Law was given through the 80 years old Moses, and Abraham was 75 before the law was given 430 years later.

I myself am interested in Paul's teachings only to know how to refute them. But you're correct, most Orthodox Jews couldn't care less about Paul.

 

[Harel13]

I have been told by someone on this forum, who claims to be an orthodox Jew, that most Orthodox Jews, believe that the Israelites were Egypt for 210 years.

Why would they believe that, when their own bible states in Exodus 12: 40; that the Israelites were in the land of Egypt for 430 years to the day? We know that the Septuagint states that Abraham and his descendants were in the land of Canaan ‘AND’ Egypt, for 430 years to the day, and we know that Abraham and his descendants were in the land of Canaan for 215 years before moving into the land of Egypt.

Knowing that Abraham was 75 when he moved into the land of Canaan and 25 years later Isaac was born, who was 60 when he sired Jacob, whose name was changed to ‘Israel’ who at the age of 130 took his entire family into the land of Egypt, 25+60+130=215 years in the land of Canaan, which would leave 215 years in the land of Egypt, before Moses lead them out, 430 years to the day from when God made his first promise to Abraham, that if he would leave his father’s household and travel into the land of Canaan he would give that Land to him as an everlasting inheritance.

I can’t make sense of the fact that most Orthodox Jews have come to the conclusion that Israel was in the land of Egypt for 210 years, can anyone inform me as to how they might have come to that conclusion?

First things first: Orthodox Jews don't hold by anything in the Septuagint. It is commonly known that the modern Septuagint is not the ancient Jewish LXX, but rather a messed-up fusion of various different Septuagint fragments mixed together with Christian interpolation. Thus, this text is not authoritative for Jews in any manner. See here and here for more information. Granted, Josephus had similar calculations, but there are many things in which Josephus's writings contradict Jewish traditions, and it's not within the scope of this post (and probably not this thread) to look into the entire issue. Josephus, in any case, is not an authoritative figure in Judaism, other than a highly useful source of historical knowledge.

In Exodus 12:40-41 it says:

"The length of time that the Israelites lived in Egypt was four hundred and thirty years. At the end of the four hundred and thirtieth year, to the very day, all the ranks of the LORD departed from the land of Egypt."
​

Seemingly, the Israelites were in Egypt for 430 years, and yet, with a very simply mathematical calculation, we know this was not the case.

Kehat was one of the seventy people who came down to Egypt, and on him it says:

Exodus 6:18:

"The sons of Kohath: Amram, Izhar, Hebron, and Uzziel; and the span of Kohath’s life was 133 years."
​

On his son Amram it says:

Exodus 6:20:

"Amram took to wife his father’s sister Jochebed, and she bore him Aaron and Moses; and the span of Amram’s life was 137 years."​

And on Moses it says:

Exodus 7:7:

"Moses was eighty years old and Aaron eighty-three, when they made their demand on Pharaoh."​

Add all of the numbers together and we get: 133+137+80=350 =/= 430. And this is with assuming that each child was born to his father in the father's last year of life, which is unlikely. Not impossible, just unlikely.

So how do we calculate the number?

Based on the verse in Genesis 15:13:

"And He said to Abram, “Know well that your offspring shall be strangers in a land not theirs, and they shall be enslaved and oppressed four hundred years"​

Thus, as Ibn Ezra explains, we know that the first thirty years of the 430 years were the time that passed since Abraham left Ur with his family, came to Haran (where he lived for five years, based on these calculations), went to Canaan (age 75), went down to Egypt and came back to Canaan, until the birth of his son Isaac (age 100). The count of the 400 years begins with the birth of Isaac, because the verse is speaking about the descendants of Abraham.

Take 60 (the age of Isaac when Jacob was born), add 130 (Jacob's age when he came down to Egypt) and you'll get 190 years of Abraham's descendants living outside of Egypt. Subtract that from 400 and you'll get 210.

Thus, we believe that the Israelites were in Egypt itself for 210 years.

 

[user4578]

with a very simply mathematical calculation, we know this was not the case.

This is based on the assumption that Kohath, son of Levi, must have been part of the group that entered Egypt("133+137+80=350 =/= 430"). However if Kohath was born at least 80 years into the entrance into Egypt(based on the last year assumption for each subsequent generation) , then the sum would reach 430(though without the last year assumption Kohath could have been born even later). And there is the possibility of this in Genesis 46:15, where an extra person was said to have entered Egypt who was part of the sum but not part of the named list, allowing thus the reasoning for Kohath to have been born later, though he were listed there, since I do not necessarily see the evidence for several generations to have gone unlisted between Kohath and Amram(Numbers 16:1, Numbers 26:58, 1 Chronicles 6:38, 1 Chronicles 23:12 - four sons of Kohath). Now if there were several generations between Kohath and Amram, there would be no real reason to hold to the 210 number, however it would seem to beg the question of who Amram's brethren(Izhar, Hebron, Uzziel) actually were. Would they have all been Kohath's grandsons according to the generation of Moses' father? Seems a difficult question.

 

[Harel13]

This is based on the assumption that Kohath, son of Levi, must have been part of the group that entered Egypt("133+137+80=350 =/= 430"). However if Kohath was born at least 80 years into the entrance into Egypt(based on the last year assumption for each subsequent generation) , then the sum would reach 430(though without the last year assumption Kohath could have been born even later). And there is the possibility of this in Genesis 46:15, where an extra person was said to have entered Egypt who was part of the sum but not part of the named list, allowing thus the reasoning for Kohath to have been born later, though he were listed there, since I do not necessarily see the evidence for several generations to have gone unlisted between Kohath and Amram(Numbers 16:1, Numbers 26:58, 1 Chronicles 6:38, 1 Chronicles 23:12 - four sons of Kohath). Now if there were several generations between Kohath and Amram, there would be no real reason to hold to the 210 number, however it would seem to beg the question of who Amram's brethren(Izhar, Hebron, Uzziel) actually were. Would they have all been Kohath's grandsons according to the generation of Moses' father? Seems a difficult question.

These are a lot of assumptions.

My "assumption" about Kehat, as you put it, is based on the text itself. As for the missing person among the seventy, Jewish tradition holds that that's Yocheved who was born just as they entered the gates of Egypt. But to base upon that missing person that thus one can be led to believe that there's more than one missing person, and in fact, one may also conclude that even people who do appear on the list are also "missing", i.e., unborn, is quite far-fetched. And you've lost me on what your deal is with Amram's brothers. They are named as his brothers and sons of Kehat multiple times in Tanach:

(Exodus 6:18, Numbers 3:19, Chronicles 1:5:28, Chronicles 1:6:23, Chronicles 1:23:12, as you yourself referenced)

Thus, it seems to me that there's no difficult question here of who Amram's brothers were - they really were his brothers. And all four were the sons of Kehat. So I don't get your point.

 

[The Anointed]

First things first: Orthodox Jews don't hold by anything in the Septuagint. It is commonly known that the modern Septuagint is not the ancient Jewish LXX, but rather a messed-up fusion of various different Septuagint fragments mixed together with Christian interpolation. Thus, this text is not authoritative for Jews in any manner. See here and here for more information. Granted, Josephus had similar calculations, but there are many things in which Josephus's writings contradict Jewish traditions, and it's not within the scope of this post (and probably not this thread) to look into the entire issue. Josephus, in any case, is not an authoritative figure in Judaism, other than a highly useful source of historical knowledge.

In Exodus 12:40-41 it says:

"The length of time that the Israelites lived in Egypt was four hundred and thirty years. At the end of the four hundred and thirtieth year, to the very day, all the ranks of the LORD departed from the land of Egypt."
​

Seemingly, the Israelites were in Egypt for 430 years, and yet, with a very simply mathematical calculation, we know this was not the case.

Kehat was one of the seventy people who came down to Egypt, and on him it says:

Exodus 6:18:

"The sons of Kohath: Amram, Izhar, Hebron, and Uzziel; and the span of Kohath’s life was 133 years."
​

On his son Amram it says:

Exodus 6:20:

"Amram took to wife his father’s sister Jochebed, and she bore him Aaron and Moses; and the span of Amram’s life was 137 years."​

And on Moses it says:

Exodus 7:7:

"Moses was eighty years old and Aaron eighty-three, when they made their demand on Pharaoh."​

Add all of the numbers together and we get: 133+137+80=350 =/= 430. And this is with assuming that each child was born to his father in the father's last year of life, which is unlikely. Not impossible, just unlikely.

So how do we calculate the number?

Based on the verse in Genesis 15:13:

"And He said to Abram, “Know well that your offspring shall be strangers in a land not theirs, and they shall be enslaved and oppressed four hundred years"​

Thus, as Ibn Ezra explains, we know that the first thirty years of the 430 years were the time that passed since Abraham left Ur with his family, came to Haran (where he lived for five years, based on these calculations), went to Canaan (age 75), went down to Egypt and came back to Canaan, until the birth of his son Isaac (age 100). The count of the 400 years begins with the birth of Isaac, because the verse is speaking about the descendants of Abraham.

Take 60 (the age of Isaac when Jacob was born), add 130 (Jacob's age when he came down to Egypt) and you'll get 190 years of Abraham's descendants living outside of Egypt. Subtract that from 400 and you'll get 210.

Thus, we believe that the Israelites were in Egypt itself for 210 years.

First of all, I’m glad to see that you have rejected the Masoretic text which states in Exodus 12: 40, that the Israelites were in the land of Egypt for 430 years to the day, and claim that it cannot be trusted, as the Christian OT translated from Jerome’s Latin Vulgate cannot be trusted also, and to discover the truth, we must search the scriptures for the truth ourselves, something that the authors of the Hebrew bible and the Christian OT didn’t do.

Like the Latin Vulgate which was translated by Jerome and others from a Hebrew text that was still in existence in his day, the Masoretic text of today, which was primarily copied, edited and distributed by a group of Jews known as the Masoretes around the 10th century A.D., Although the oldest complete Masoretic texts come from the 10th and 11th centuries AD.

Both the Latin Vulgate, which is a translation of a Hebrew bible that was still in existence at the time of Jerome, and the Hebrew Masoretic text that was copied from an unknown source, which came into existence some six hundred Years after Jerome’s translation, contain many of the same errors, such as the four hundred and thirty years that Israel was supposed to have been in Egypt, and both claim in the only two verses in both translations, where the father of Shelah is mentioned, which are Genesis 11: 12, and 1 Chronicles 1: 18; that Arpachshad is the father of Shelah, whereas the Septuagint, Genesis 11: 12, and 1 Chronicles 1: 18; Luke 23: 36-38, and the book of Jubilees all reveal that Arpachshad was the father of Kainam/Cainan, who was the father of Shelah.

Jubilees Chapter 8: 1; In the twenty-ninth jubilee, in the first week, [1373 A.M.] in the beginning thereof Arpachshad took to himself a wife and her name was Rasu’eja, the daughter of Susan, the daughter of Elam, and she bare him a son in the third year in this week, [1375 A.M.] and he called his name Kainam. And the son grew, and his father taught him writing, and he went to seek for himself a place where he might seize for himself a city. And he found a writing which former (generations) had carved on the rock, and he read what was thereon, and he transcribed it and sinned owing to it; for it contained the teaching of the Watchers in accordance with which they used to observe the omens of the sun and moon and stars in all the signs of heaven. And he wrote it down and said nothing regarding it; for he was afraid to speak to Noah about it lest he should be angry with him on account of it. And in the thirtieth jubilee, [1429 A.M.] in the second week, in the first year thereof, he took to himself a wife, and her name was Melka, the daughter of Madai, the son of Japheth, and in the fourth year [1432 A.M.] he begat a son, and called his name Shelah; for he said: ’Truly I have been sent.’

And as far as the erroneous 430 years in Egypt is concerned, we only have to look at the parents of Moses. If, as the Roman and Hebrew scriptures claim, that the Israelites were in the land of Egypt for 430 years to the day, then Amram and Jochebed the parents of the 80 years old Moses who led the Israelite out of Egypt, who were both born on the same day, 16 years after Jacob and his family entered Egypt, would had to have been 334 years old when Moses was born, 80 years before the exodus.

Born 16 years after Israel entered Egypt, plus 334 years when Moses was supposed to have been born, plus 80 years after his birth when the exodus occurred, 16+334=350+80=430. Absolutely impossible.

 

[Harel13]

First of all, I’m glad to see that you have rejected the Masoretic text which states in Exodus 12: 40, that the Israelites were in the land of Egypt for 430 years to the day, and claim that it cannot be trusted, as the Christian OT translated from Jerome’s Latin Vulgate cannot be trusted also, and to discover the truth, we must search the scriptures for the truth ourselves, something that the authors of the Hebrew bible and the Christian OT didn’t do.

If it was any other member on RF, I'd be speechless, but as this is not the first time you've made such claims, I am unsurprised.

I never, ever rejected the Masoretic Text

Put it in big, bold letters so you can't get around that. Show me where in what I posted I said that I reject the Masoretic Text. If you can't find it, then stop making things up. Until then, I see no reason to continue discussing anything with you.

 

[The Anointed]

If it was any other member on RF, I'd be speechless, but as this is not the first time you've made such claims, I am unsurprised.

I never, ever rejected the Masoretic Text

Put it in big, bold letters so you can't get around that. Show me where in what I posted I said that I reject the Masoretic Text. If you can't find it, then stop making things up. Until then, I see no reason to continue discussing anything with you.

You have said that you believe that the Israelites were in Egypt for 210 years, whereas your Masoretic text says that they were in Egypt for 430 Years to the day, if that is not rejecting your Masoretic text, I don't know what is.

If you reject the Masoretic text, that states the Israelites were in Egypt for 430 years to the day and have searched elsewhere in your scriptures for the truth as to exactly how long they were in Egypt, you admit to all, that you did not trust that which your Masoretic text erroneously teaches.

How many more erroneous statements does you Masoretic text make that match Jerome's translation which was made some 600 years before your Masoretic text.

Who was the father of Shelah? I don't think that you will convince many Christians that Luke, who says Cainam/Kainam was the father of Shelah, was a liar.

 

[Harel13]

You have said that you believe that the Israelites were in Egypt for 210 years, whereas your Masoretic text says that they were in Egypt for 430 Years to the day, if that is not rejecting your Masoretic text, I don't know what is.

What it is is explaining the meaning of the text, rather than what you always do, which is fall back on apocryphal texts and kick the Bible in the face.

If you reject the Masoretic text

*If*. And I don't.

How many more erroneous statements does you Masoretic text make that match Jerome's translation which was made some 600 years before your Masoretic text.

Zero. And I don't care about Jerome's translation.

Who was the father of Shelah? I don't think that you will convince many Christians that Luke, who says Cainam/Kainam was the father of Shelah, was a liar.

Yes, Luke was either a liar or a complete fool. But I don't care to prove this to Christians, I have more important things to do with my time.

 

[The Anointed]

What it is is explaining the meaning of the text, rather than what you always do, which is fall back on apocryphal texts and kick the Bible in the face.

*If*. And I don't.

Zero. And I don't care about Jerome's translation.

Yes, Luke was either a liar or a complete fool. But I don't care to prove this to Christians, I have more important things to do with my time.

A liar or a fool, that's not nice, and why don't you care about Jerome's translation, when it is almost word for word the same as the Masoretic text that was a translation some 600 years after Jerome's?

But you did reject the Masoretic text, which states in Exodus 12: 40; that the Israelites were in Egypt for 430 years to the day. Would you care to now accept the Masoretic text as being the truth, or would you rather deny Exodus 12: 40; of the Masoretic text and tell us all that it was not 430 years to the day as taught in the Hebrew and Christian scriptures, but as you and most Orthodox Jews believe they were in the Land of Egypt for only 210 years.

I'm sorry mate, you cannot say that the Israelites were in the land of Egypt for 210 years, and that you have not rejected the Hebrew scriptures which state the they were in the land of Egypt for 430 years to the very day.

And I also, who am a follower of the God and savior of the body of mankind, know that his words have been corrupted by erroneous translations such as Jerome's, who was no expert on the Hebrew Language, and yet decided to translate his Latin Vulgate from the Hebrew bible that existed in his day, rather than from the Greek Septuagint, a language with which he was more familiar, from which bible Jesus and his apostles taught.

One only has to look to the parents of Moses to know that Exodus 12: 40, is in error. If, as the Roman and Hebrew scriptures claim, that the Israelites were in the land of Egypt for 430 years to the day, then the parents of the 80 years old Moses who led the Israelite out of Egypt, who were both born 16 years after Jacob and his family entered Egypt, would had to have been 334 years old when Moses was born 80 years before the exodus.

Born 16 years after Israel entered Egypt, plus 334 years when Moses was supposed to have been born, plus 80 years after his birth when the exodus occurred, 16+334=350+80=430. Proving the the Roman and Hebrew translators of Exodus 12: 40, got it seriously wrong.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

How Many Years Were the Israelites in Egypt?

First of all, I’m glad to see that you have rejected the Masoretic text ...

That was disturbingly loathsome ad hominem.

 

[Harel13]

A liar or a fool, that's not nice

The authors of the NT were far more despicable in their depictions of the Jewish people and have a direct hand in the spilling of the blood of millions of the Jews over the last 2000 years. So me being a little "not nice" to them doesn't seem so terrible.

and why don't you care about Jerome's translation, when it is almost word for word the same as the Masoretic text that was a translation some 600 years after Jerome's?

While I find Jerome himself commendable for several things, I see no reason why I should use a non-Jewish translation, when I can either look at the original in Hebrew or use Jewish translations, if need be.

But you did reject the Masoretic text, which states in Exodus 12: 40; that the Israelites were in Egypt for 430 years to the day. Would you care to now accept the Masoretic text as being the truth, or would you rather deny Exodus 12: 40; of the Masoretic text and tell us all that it was not 430 years to the day as taught in the Hebrew and Christian scriptures, but as you and most Orthodox Jews believe they were in the Land of Egypt for only 210 years.

I explained both the 430 years verses and the 400 years verse, along with the 210 years tradition by Jews. Nothing in what I said shows any sign of my rejecting the Masoretic Text, so kindly cut it.

I'm sorry mate, you cannot say that the Israelites were in the land of Egypt for 210 years, and that you have not rejected the Hebrew scriptures which state the they were in the land of Egypt for 430 years to the very day.

Point out what in the calculations I presented you find doesn't make sense.

And I also, who am a follower of the God and savior of the body of mankind, know that his words have been corrupted by erroneous translations such as Jerome's, who was no expert on the Hebrew Language, and yet decided to translate his Latin Vulgate from the Hebrew bible that existed in his day, rather than from the Greek Septuagint, a language with which he was more familiar, from which bible Jesus and his apostles taught.

Well, then it's a good thing I don't normally use the Vulgate, right?

One only has to look to the parents of Moses to know that Exodus 12: 40, is in error. If, as the Roman and Hebrew scriptures claim, that the Israelites were in the land of Egypt for 430 years to the day, then the parents of the 80 years old Moses who led the Israelite out of Egypt, who were both born 16 years after Jacob and his family entered Egypt, would had to have been 334 years old when Moses was born 80 years before the exodus.

I already explained this to you within my calculations. You are free to disagree, but your views will have more substance if you can properly explain why you don't accept the traditional Jewish calculation.

 

[The Anointed]

The authors of the NT were far more despicable in their depictions of the Jewish people and have a direct hand in the spilling of the blood of millions of the Jews over the last 2000 years. So me being a little "not nice" to them doesn't seem so terrible.

While I find Jerome himself commendable for several things, I see no reason why I should use a non-Jewish translation, when I can either look at the original in Hebrew or use Jewish translations, if need be.

I explained both the 430 years verses and the 400 years verse, along with the 210 years tradition by Jews. Nothing in what I said shows any sign of my rejecting the Masoretic Text, so kindly cut it.

Point out what in the calculations I presented you find doesn't make sense.

Well, then it's a good thing I don't normally use the Vulgate, right?

I already explained this to you within my calculations. You are free to disagree, but your views will have more substance if you can properly explain why you don't accept the traditional Jewish calculation.

Yes you did explain that the Masoretic text which states that the Israelites were in Egypt for 430 years to the days could not be trusted, so in order to discover the truth you had to Look elsewhere, but your calculations as to the period of time between when the promise of God to Abraham, which promise was, "If he would leave the household of his father and move into the land of Canaan, that Land would be given to Him and his descendants as an everlasting inheritance," was given to Abraham and when his descendants entered Egypt, was five years out.

Abraham was 75 when the promise was made, 25 years later Isaac was born, 60 years later, his son Jacob was born, who was 130 when he with his entire family entered Egypt. 25 +60+130=215 years they were in the land of Canaan and 215 years, later, after being in the land of Canaan 'AND' Egypt for 430 years to the day, God called his son out of Egypt.

You ask; "why you don't I accept the traditional Jewish calculation?" The reason is, because the Jewish calculations are wrong.

You also said that you see no reason why you should use a non-Jewish translation, when you can either look at the original in Hebrew or use Jewish translations, if need be.

For one thing, there is no original Hebrew scriptures, only the Masoretic text that was written some six hundred years after Jerome's translation of the Hebrew scriptures that existed in his day, which text is practically word for word with Jerome's translation, with all it's erroneous interpretations.

And BTW, Those despicable authors of the NT that you refer to, are Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, James the righteous and Paul, were all Jews, and I for one believe those Jews.

 

[Harel13]

could not be trusted

I think I asked you to cut it out with making up stuff I never said.

The reason is, because the Jewish calculations are wrong

So you are unable to provide any logical explanation. Good luck with trying to establish your own theories.

And BTW, Those despicable authors of the NT that you refer to, are Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, James the righteous and Paul, were all Jews, and I for one believe those Jews

Self-hating, antisemitic Jews of the worse sort possible. That they were Jews does not make them correct.

 

[The Anointed]

I think I asked you to cut it out with making up stuff I never said.

So you are unable to provide any logical explanation. Good luck with trying to establish your own theories.

Self-hating, antisemitic Jews of the worse sort possible. That they were Jews does not make them correct.

Oh, we all know that you never actually said in so many words, that you reject the Masoretic and Roman translations, of Exodus 12: 40; which are almost word for word the same, but, by confessing that you believe the Israelites were only in the land of Egypt for 210 years, you have revealed to all who follow this thread, that you have rejected Exodus 12: 40; in the Masoretic text which states that the Israelites were in the land of Egypt for 430 years to the day.

I don't make up stuff mate, the fact that you believe that the Israelites were only in the land of Egypt for 210 years, reveals to all that you have rejected the Masoretic text of Exodus 12: 40.

The logical explanation as to the time that Abraham's descendants were in Egypt is to be found in the Septuagint which was a translation of the then existing Hebrew bible into the Greek, where it is written that Abraham and his descendants would be in the Land of Canaan 'AND' Egypt for 430 years.

The Septuagint was translated by Hebrew men in Alexandria some 2 to 3 hundred years before Jesus, who the Lord has appointed as the Messiah of the Jewish people

This is corroborated by Paul, who in Galatians 3: 17. says that God made a promise to Abraham and to his descendants, and the Law that was given 430 years later cannot break that covenant and cancel God's promise, which promise was as follows.

From the Hebrew bible Masoretic text, Genesis 12: 1; Now the LORD said unto Abram: 'Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto the land that I will show thee.

2, And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and be thou a blessing.

3, And I will bless them that bless thee, and him that curseth thee will I curse; and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed.'

4, So Abram went, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him; and 'Abram was seventy and five years old' when he departed out of Haran.

Abraham and his descendants were in the Lands of Canaan and Egypt for 430 years. 25 years after Abraham had entered the land of Canaan, Isaac was born, who at the age of 60 sired Jacob, whose name was later changed by the Lord to 'Israel,' who, at the age of 130, with his entire family entered Egypt: 25 + 60 + 130 = 215.

215 years Abraham and his descendants were in the land of Canaan, so, how long were the Israelites in Egypt? 430 minus the 215 years that they were in the Land of Canaan = 215 years.

And you have never spoken truer words, than when you said; "Just because someone is a Jew, that doesn't make them correct."

Enjoy the rest of your day mate.

 

[Harel13]

Oh, we all know that you never actually said in so many words, that you reject the Masoretic and Roman translations, of Exodus 12: 40

Thanks for finally having the decency to say this.

but, by confessing that you believe the Israelites were only in the land of Egypt for 210 years, you have revealed to all who follow this thread, that you have rejected Exodus 12: 40; in the Masoretic text which states that the Israelites were in the land of Egypt for 430 years to the day.

If you look at the verse, you'll see that it never says that they were in Egypt for 430 years to the day, but that when they left, it was 430 to the day. That begs the question: When did the years start being counted? I explained all of this already.

I don't make up stuff mate

Should I make a list of things you made up during our previous interactions? You may have forgotten, but I haven't.

reveals to all that you have rejected the Masoretic text of Exodus 12: 40.

So back to making up stuff. So basically a "sorry not sorry" situation.

The logical explanation as to the time that Abraham's descendants were in Egypt is to be found in the Septuagint which was a translation of the then existing Hebrew bible, into the Greek some 2 to 3 hundred years before Jesus, who the Lord has appointed as the Messiah of the Jewish people where it is written that Abraham and his descendants would be in the Land of Canaan 'AND' Egypt for 430 years.

You realize that you don't have an original Septuagint available, right? Current septuagints are combinations of multiple different Greek translations made by many anonymous authors whose authority and knowledge of Hebrew is questionable at best. And all of that was mixed with Christian interpolation.

And you have never spoken truer words, than when you said; "Just because someone is a Jew, that doesn't make them correct."

I'm so glad you agree that the authors of the NT's authority isn't based on them having been Jews, because they were certainly Jews of the worst kind, and this goes far beyond whether they actually followed Judaism or not. They were simply indecent lowlifes.

 

[The Anointed]

Thanks for finally having the decency to say this.

If you look at the verse, you'll see that it never says that they were in Egypt for 430 years to the day, but that when they left, it was 430 to the day. That begs the question: When did the years start being counted? I explained all of this already.

Should I make a list of things you made up during our previous interactions? You may have forgotten, but I haven't.

So back to making up stuff. So basically a "sorry not sorry" situation.

You realize that you don't have an original Septuagint available, right? Current septuagints are combinations of multiple different Greek translations made by many anonymous authors whose authority and knowledge of Hebrew is questionable at best. And all of that was mixed with Christian interpolation.

I'm so glad you agree that the authors of the NT's authority isn't based on them having been Jews, because they were certainly Jews of the worst kind, and this goes far beyond whether they actually followed Judaism or not. They were simply indecent lowlifes.

My, my, how you must hate Christians who believe the accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Paul, James the righteous, and Jude the brethren of James and Jesus, who are the authors of NT, that you describe as Jews of the worst kind and who are no more than indecent lowlifes.

You do realise of course that you don't have an original Hebrew bible, the oldest extant copy of some Hebrew scripture that was in existence some 600 years after Jerome's Latin translation, was made by the Masorets, which copy contains so many of the same errors made by Jerome in his Latin translation of the Hebrew that existed in his day.

Oh, BTW, I didn't need to look at Exodus 12: 40; to know that you, who said, "look at the verse, you'll see that it never says that they were in Egypt for 430 years to the day, but that when they left, it was 430 to the day," haven't got a clue as to what you are talking about. Because unlike you, I DO know what I'm talking about, Exodus 12: 40; from the Hebrew bible.

מ וּמוֹשַׁב בְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל, אֲשֶׁר יָשְׁבוּ בְּמִצְרָיִם--שְׁלֹשִׁים שָׁנָה, וְאַרְבַּע מֵאוֹת שָׁנָה. Now the time that the children of Israel dwelt in Egypt was four hundred and thirty years. Check it out yourself here in the following link . . . . Exodus 12 / Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre (mechon-mamre.org).

Like I said, Just because someone is a Jew, that does not make them correct.

When I said in post #17; That you have never spoken truer words, than when you said; "Just because someone is a Jew, that doesn't make them correct. I was referring to you young fellow, and not to the righteous Jewish authors of the NT.

BTW. go back to post five and read what you said about the time Israel was in Egypt.

Enjoy the rest of your day, and try to educate yourself on the Jewish Bible.

 

[Harel13]

My, my, how you must hate Christians who believe the accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Paul, James the righteous, and Jude the brethren of James and Jesus, who are the authors of NT, that you describe as Jews of the worst kind and who are no more than indecent lowlifes.

I don't hate Christians. I hate antisemites and I hate the NT.

You do realise of course that you don't have an original Hebrew bible, the oldest extant copy of some Hebrew scripture that was in existence some 600 years after Jerome's Latin translation, was made by the Masorets, which copy contains so many of the same errors made by Jerome in his Latin translation of the Hebrew that existed in his day.

Ah, so I suppose we're at a draw, then. Neither of us have an original text. So I don't think you're in a position to lord over me with the septuagint.

Oh, BTW, I didn't need to look at Exodus 12: 40; to know that you, who said, "look at the verse, you'll see that it never says that they were in Egypt for 430 years to the day, but that when they left, it was 430 to the day," haven't got a clue as to what you are talking about. Because unlike you, I DO know what I'm talking about, Exodus 12: 40; from the Hebrew bible.

מ וּמוֹשַׁב בְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל, אֲשֶׁר יָשְׁבוּ בְּמִצְרָיִם--שְׁלֹשִׁים שָׁנָה, וְאַרְבַּע מֵאוֹת שָׁנָה. Now the time that the children of Israel dwelt in Egypt was four hundred and thirty years. Check it out yourself here in the following link . . . . Exodus 12 / Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre (mechon-mamre.org).

Yet you yourself don't accept this verse as-is. How odd.

I was referring to you young fellow

Really?! No kidding!!!! In my previous post I was being sarcastic, and here I am again, being sarcastic. I know you think people that disagree with you are dense, but we're really not.

Enjoy the rest of your day, and try to educate yourself on the Jewish Bible.

I'll do my best. If you could actually address my calculations point by point for a change, then this thread might actually go somewhere.