Are you a born sinner? Is anyone?

[JustGeorge]

Do you give lessons?

.... I haven't...

Actually, most people want me to be bothered by mess and find the fact that I'm laid back regarding such as a character flaw and want me to change it.

Its never occurred this might be a positive trait to share.

 

[Trailblazer]

We are born careless of others, and selfish to the degree of being willing to harm others to get what we want. This is our "original sin". It is the sin of hubris. The sin of presuming that the world and everything (and everyone) in it exists to serve our desires. Presuming ourselves (in this way) to be God's equals.

I believe that some people are like that, but not all people are like that, and a newborn baby is not born that way, as selfishness is acquired during life.

Jesus' life and death did not erase this sin-nature from within us. It did, however, provide us with a way to overcome it. If we are willing. And if we try, and keep trying.

Not only Jesus offered a way to overcome this, all the Prophets offered a way by their teachings.
The sin of hubris is the Christian belief that Jesus is the only way, which was not a teaching of Jesus who was humble.

 

[Trailblazer]

Its never occurred this might be a positive trait to share.

It is a positive trait, in Buddhism and in the Baha'i Faith it is called detachment.
I work on it daily as I walk from one room to another.

 

[stvdv]

I have not changed font size, I have not used bold letters, I have not changed the color of letters, I have not used capital letters for the post. Why do you say that I am shouting at anyone?

I said "You seem" to shout out. So, not really shouting of course.

But you do like to tell us that our Prophets, God, Messengers are a scam

And according to many Wise, only Consciousness is Real
So, all the rest is maya, illusion, fata morgana ... scam

So, from that POV I agree

Hence I said "also @Aupmanyav is ... scam" (and @stvdv too)

 

[Clara Tea]

Its said we are all born sinners but yet jesus died for all of man's sins... past, present and future....so how are we born sinners if jesus already died to wash away our present and future sins?

We are born with the capacity to sin. If we could put on a suit of armor that would deflect sin, that might keep us safe. That armor is made of religious dogma. When we read the bible, discuss it, and vow to be moral, we have an armor that protects us from prostitution, drugs, vandalism, and a host of other bad elements.

Perhaps it is the capacity to sin that is considered original sin (not so much carrying the burden of the sins of Eden).

The bible says that we are not responsible for the sins of others (just our own sins count). So, the sins of Eden shouldn't count as original sins.

A baby doesn't ask to be born. So, a baby doesn't sin by causing labor pains to mom. Rather, it was the parents idea (or perhaps a mistake) to have a baby, and they are responsible for all that follows (birth pain, etc).

It seems like a scam to tell someone that they are born with a sin that they never causes, and the only way to remove that sin and get into heaven is to believe in the religion.

Was Jesus happy to die for our sins? Jesus had asked God "why hath thou forsaken me?" Clearly dying was not Jesus's idea.

Was God pleased that mankind tortured to death his only son? Was God intending to reward mankind for killing Jesus?

I think that it is clear that God's act of cruelty (allowing his son to be killed in such a painful way) is a sin. Perhaps we are supposed to forgive God, not the other way around. After all, all-powerful God had the power to stop mankind from killing Jesus.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Even if everyone sinned after they were born, they were not born in sin.
Jesus is not special except in the eyes of Christians. All of the Manifestations of God were sinless in God's Eyes.

That’s not what God says

 

[ElishaElijah]

This is what happens when depressed people write gospels instead of getting therapy.

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us— that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. And these things we write to you that your joy may be full.”
‭‭I John‬ ‭1:1-4‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

He doesn’t sound depressed at all, quite the opposite.

 

[Trailblazer]

That’s not what God says

You do not have a clue what God has said because you only read the Bible.

 

[ElishaElijah]

You do not have a clue what God has said because you only read the Bible.

You do not have a clue what God has said because you only read the Bible.

And that’s what He has said, wrote it all down for us to know.

 

[PureX]

I believe that some people are like that, but not all people are like that, and a newborn baby is not born that way, as selfishness is acquired during life.

We are born in need of the service of others for our very survival. And we demand that service to the degree that we are able. We would continue on that path to the degree that we are able until and unless we are taught, otherwise. Taught to take care of ourselves, and to even serve the needs of others.

Not only Jesus offered a way to overcome this, all the Prophets offered a way by their teachings.
The sin of hubris is the Christian belief that Jesus is the only way, which was not a teaching of Jesus who was humble.

"Original sin" is specific to an Abrahamic religious ideology. But we can generalize that idea and find correspondence in many other religions. That is the idea that we humans are spiritually broken in some way, or incomplete, or perverted by our own egocentric desires.

 

[Trailblazer]

We are born in need of the service of others for our very survival. And we demand that service to the degree that we are able. We would continue on that path to the degree that we are able until and unless we are taught, otherwise. Taught to take care of ourselves, and to even serve the needs of others.

I agree.

"Original sin" is specific to an Abrahamic religious ideology. But we can generalize that idea and find correspondence in many other religions. That is the idea that we humans are spiritually broken in some way, or incomplete, or perverted by our own egocentric desires.

The 'doctrine' of original sin is specific to Christianity.
Baha'is believe that humans are spiritually broken in some way, or incomplete, or perverted by our own egocentric desires, but we do not believe we are that way because Adam and Eve ate an apple. 30: ADAM AND EVE

 

[Trailblazer]

And that’s what He has said, wrote it all down for us to know.

That is not all God has ever said and that is not all of what God wants us to know.

 

[PureX]

I agree.

The 'doctrine' of original sin is specific to Christianity.
Baha'is believe that humans are spiritually broken in some way, or incomplete, or perverted by our own egocentric desires, but we do not believe we are that way because Adam and Eve ate an apple. 30: ADAM AND EVE

No grown-up would. It's a mythological story, intended to convey an ideal, not divulge some magical historical event.

 

[ElishaElijah]

That is not all God has ever said and that is not all of what God wants us to know.

No it’s not all He said or did but everything we need to know and are accountable to is written down.
“This is the disciple who testifies of these things, and wrote these things; and we know that his testimony is true. And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.”
‭‭John‬ ‭21:24-25‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Its said we are all born sinners but yet jesus died for all of man's sins... past, present and future....so how are we born sinners if jesus already died to wash away our present and future sins?

No, you're not born with personal sin, but original sin, which is inherited from Adam and Eve. It's basically a broken nature inclined to sin. You're not personally guilt of that or anything when you're a baby, though.

 

[Trailblazer]

No it’s not all He said or did but everything we need to know and are accountable to is written down.

That was true during the Christian Dispensation, but not for all time. We are now living in a new Dispensation, and everything we need to know and are accountable for came through the Revelation of Baha'u'llah and it was written down in His own pen.

Dispensation

1. the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
2. an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
3. a divinely appointed order or age:

e.g. the old Mosaic, or Jewish, dispensation; the new gospel, or Christian, dispensation.

Definition of dispensation | Dictionary.com

 

[ElishaElijah]

That was true during the Christian Dispensation, but not for all time. We are now living in a new Dispensation, and everything we need to know and are accountable for came through the Revelation of Baha'u'llah and it was written down in His own pen.

Dispensation

1. the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
2. an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
3. a divinely appointed order or age:

e.g. the old Mosaic, or Jewish, dispensation; the new gospel, or Christian, dispensation.

Definition of dispensation | Dictionary.com

The final dispensation has been written in Revelation.the new Heaven and Earth when all things are made new.

 

[Trailblazer]

The final dispensation has been written in Revelation.the new Heaven and Earth when all things are made new.

That's true, and that Dispensation written in Revelation when all things will be made new is the Dispensation of Baha'u'llah. That new Earth is already in the process of being built on Earth. The Baha’is are building it right now.

“The world’s equilibrium hath been upset through the vibrating influence of this most great, this new World Order. Mankind’s ordered life hath been revolutionized through the agency of this unique, this wondrous System—the like of which mortal eyes have never witnessed.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 136

 

[ElishaElijah]

That's true, and that Dispensation written in Revelation when all things will be made new is the Dispensation of Baha'u'llah. That new Earth is already in the process of being built on Earth. The Baha’is are building it right now.

“The world’s equilibrium hath been upset through the vibrating influence of this most great, this new World Order. Mankind’s ordered life hath been revolutionized through the agency of this unique, this wondrous System—the like of which mortal eyes have never witnessed.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 136

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.”
‭‭II Peter‬ ‭3:10-13‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[Trailblazer]

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.”
‭‭II Peter‬ ‭3:10-13‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

The day of the Lord came as a thief in the night which is why most missed people missed it.
We are now living in the Day of God, even though thus far few have realized it (Matthew 7:13-14).

“In the Book of Isaiah it is written: “Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of His majesty.” No man that meditateth upon this verse can fail to recognize the greatness of this Cause, or doubt the exalted character of this Day—the Day of God Himself. This same verse is followed by these words: “And the Lord alone shall be exalted in that Day.” This is the Day which the Pen of the Most High hath glorified in all the holy Scriptures.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 13