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Are you a born sinner? Is anyone?

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Its said we are all born sinners but yet jesus died for all of man's sins... past, present and future....so how are we born sinners if jesus already died to wash away our present and future sins?
Are you a born sinner?

NO. I am an incarnation of The Divine

Is anyone?

NO,
 
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1213

Well-Known Member
Its said we are all born sinners but yet jesus died for all of man's sins... past, present and future....so how are we born sinners if jesus already died to wash away our present and future sins?

I don’t know what that means. But, I have understood sin is to reject God, or to live apart from God. All people are born apart from God, in this “life”. That is why I think it can be said people are born in sin. Luckily God has given a way back to Him.
 

thomas t

non-denominational Christian
the "born sinner" cannot be backed up by scripture. Bible says "made sinners" as in Romans 5:19
(Romans 5:12). Every one of us was affected by Adam’s sin; there are no exceptions. “One trespass resulted in condemnation for all people” (verse 18). We are all sinners, and we all share the same condemnation, because we are all children of Adam.
I disagree, it's the version.

In my opinion, it's by default that everyone sins. If you just do nothing, you sin. This is why Paul says condemnation has reached everyone now, I think.

It's like the spread of an infection... if you just sit there doing nothing, the mere contact to other people makes you ill.

In my opinion it's like that: you have peers (parents, brethren, friends) that resort to racist rants, for instance.
When you're one year old, you can't be blamed for it.
two yours old? not yet...
but when you reach adulthood and you still sit there not challenging the common racism around you... you have sinned.
You sinned by doing nothing. You didn't speak up.

So it's like have been infected by racism.

If your environment is free from racism, that's good. It's some other sin then, I suppose.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Its said we are all born sinners but yet jesus died for all of man's sins... past, present and future....so how are we born sinners if jesus already died to wash away our present and future sins?

We all sin, that is enough. Jesus did not die for people who are not sinners and who have no need to repent or be forgiven. He came to save sinners, the lost, us.
Washing away our sins does not mean that our sinfulness is taken away.
In theory a Christian does not have to sin but in practice this Christian life is a place to learn and get to know Jesus. The sinlessness comes later, after the resurrection in a body that we can control.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
Its said we are all born sinners but yet jesus died for all of man's sins... past, present and future....so how are we born sinners if jesus already died to wash away our present and future sins?
Born human, sin is optional. Original sin and atonement wasn’t part of the original pre-cross gospel. After the Son of God returned to heaven, speculation and conjecture developed theories.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Born human, sin is optional. Original sin and atonement wasn’t part of the original pre-cross gospel. After the Son of God returned to heaven, speculation and conjecture developed theories.

Jesus taught His disciples and they preached that from the beginning. The death on the cross was always a central part of the gospel.
Why make things up that are not in the Bible?
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Its said we are all born sinners but yet jesus died for all of man's sins... past, present and future....so how are we born sinners if jesus already died to wash away our present and future sins?
According to standard theology this tendency to sinfulness is Original Sin. We are still said to be born with this, even after Christ's sacrifice on the cross. What mankind has had, since that event, is the means of overcoming this sinful tendency. Or so I was taught.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
Its said we are all born sinners but yet jesus died for all of man's sins... past, present and future....so how are we born sinners if jesus already died to wash away our present and future sins?

Sin is connected to law. One would not know about sin unless the law says this action is against the law. Sin is not impute where there is no law. As along as we have law, we also have sin. For example, in some States of the USA, Marijuana is against the law. While in other states, it is not against the law. It is a civil sin only in states where it is illegal, but it is not a civil sin in states were there is no law against it. If we stand with one leg on each side of a state line, half of us will be a sinner and other hals sinless. Law and sin are defined by man all the time, and often has nothing to do with divine law.

When Jesus died for our sins, he did away with law. However, humans continued to impose law and thereby perpetuated sin, since sin only exists where there is law. The righteous man shall live by faith apart from the law. Using the marijuana example above, if you live in a state where marijuana is legal, each person gets to choose for themselves to use marijuana or not, as their spirit moves them, with neither choice creating a sin. One is under faith in your inner voice. But if you live in a state with a law against it, not all choices are sinless and some are subject to civil fire and brimstone. Man continues to serve Satan and law, even though sin and law was suspended at the heavenly level.

History shows that after Jesus, humans did not do away with law, but rather amplified the numbers of laws, thereby increasing sin. Law is based on a one size fits all mentality. Law is not tailored to each individual. We all have to obey the speed limit even if we never thought to speed. The speeding law assumes we are all capable of sin on any given day; one size fits all. The fundamental premise behind law; the one size fits all of law, is we are all potential sinners so we all have to be under the same law. If there were exceptions, and not everyone was a sinner, the law would reflect this. It does not. Man via the one size fits all of law perpetuates the mentality of original sin. Original sin was also one size fits all.

Even a new born baby is forced, in theory, to be under the one size fits all of law; future sinner. They will be taught the law as soon as they are aware. Although most laws will not be enforced for babies and children even fi they sin against the law. Non-enforcement of the law, as with children, was the loophole that Jesus saw, i.e., forgiveness of sin. By forgiving sin, you get the same end results, as no law, since sin is not imputed where there is no law. If you forgive the sin, you neutralize the law. The police may forgive the child, if he breaks the driving without a license law, thereby breaking the one size fits all connection to law, sin and brimstone. "Less you be as children; forgiveness of sin, you cannot enter the kingdom."

As odd as it sounds when former President Trump did away with regulations; laws, he lowered the number of sins, since fewer sins are imputed when there are fewer laws.
 
If you are not religious why do you believe this? Can't you recognize a scam when you see it?
Christianity wants you to accept the free gift but in order to accept it you have to admit you are a sinner.

Romans 5 KJV

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


As a Baha’i I do not believe that Adam and Eve were real people or that there was a Garden of Eden in which they lived. I believe it was a story with metaphorical meanings.

“We must reflect a little: if the literal meaning of this story were attributed to a wise man, certainly all would logically deny that this arrangement, this invention, could have emanated from an intelligent being. Therefore, this story of Adam and Eve who ate from the tree, and their expulsion from Paradise, must be thought of simply as a symbol. It contains divine mysteries and universal meanings, and it is capable of marvelous explanations. Only those who are initiated into mysteries, and those who are near the Court of the All-Powerful, are aware of these secrets. Hence these verses of the Bible have numerous meanings.”
Some Answered Questions, p. 123


To read the entire chapter: 30: ADAM AND EVE

Baha’is do not believe in original sin, that sin was inherited from Adam and Eve, so there is no need for redemption from original sin. Baha’is believe that man was born good but has a lower material nature that has the propensity to sin. One possible meaning of the serpent in the Adam and Eve story is attachment to the human world, or the material world, as opposed to God and the spiritual world. When Adam was born and entered the human world, He came out from the paradise of freedom and fell into the world of bondage. From the spiritual world, in the height of purity and absolute goodness, He entered into the world of good and evil... This attachment to the human world, which is sin, was inherited by the descendants of Adam, and is the serpent which is always in our midst and continues and endures... It is because of this attachment that men have been deprived of essential spirituality and their exalted position.
Everyone has sinned except Jesus Christ.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Its said we are all born sinners but yet jesus died for all of man's sins... past, present and future....so how are we born sinners if jesus already died to wash away our present and future sins?
We are born careless of others, and selfish to the degree of being willing to harm others to get what we want. This is our "original sin". It is the sin of hubris. The sin of presuming that the world and everything (and everyone) in it exists to serve our desires. Presuming ourselves (in this way) to be God's equals.

Jesus' life and death did not erase this sin-nature from within us. It did, however, provide us with a way to overcome it. If we are willing. And if we try, and keep trying.
 

Hermit Philosopher

Selflessly here for you
Its said we are all born sinners but yet jesus died for all of man's sins... past, present and future....so how are we born sinners if jesus already died to wash away our present and future sins?


Dear We Never Know,

To better understand this notion, two things may be of help:
  1. Analysis of wording; to say that Man is “born from and into sin”, differs a little from saying that he is “born a sinner”.
  2. Differentiation between definition of concepts; there are the big [deadly] sins and then there are the everyday sins of Man. The consequences of deadly sins are slightly different and are not addressed below.
Through Christ, God experienced the human Ego and faced (from within) our dilemma of choice between Divine Will and Will of Man. This allowed for our forgiveness from the sins we will inevitably commit on a daily basis.

Man is not in fact “born a sinner.” Man is born pure of heart and free to choose between a life driven by Divine Will or by the Will of Ego. but...

Man is born from sin, because both his longing for offspring and the act of conception itself - though not “deadly” sins - are considered expressions of Ego and manifestations of the Will of Man.

And...

Man is born into sin, because the World of Man is an expression and result of sin itself. Every and any context he is born into is the manifestation of the sins (+ of good deeds and sacrifices, actually) of his fathers and he may, or may not, dedicate his own life to trying to free himself from those sins.


Humbly
Hermit
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Its said we are all born sinners but yet jesus died for all of man's sins... past, present and future....so how are we born sinners if jesus already died to wash away our present and future sins?
I'm not of that mindset, but I have run into a couple of rather misguided people who figured they could do any immoral action they wanted, because Jesus had already taken on any punishment, or bad stuff that might happen to them. It's okay, I'm saved." Try telling that to a judge.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
Jesus taught His disciples and they preached that from the beginning. The death on the cross was always a central part of the gospel.
Why make things up that are not in the Bible?
Jesus went first to his own but his own did not accept his gospel.

“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would c do what Abraham did. 40As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41You are doing the works of your own father.”

Knowing he would be rejected isn’t the same as wanting to be rejected. It was the will of the devil that his gospel be rejected by the Jews.

Then after Jesus left a new compromised gospel developed among Peter and Paul. It was the Pagan atonement doctrine.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Its said we are all born sinners but yet jesus died for all of man's sins... past, present and future....so how are we born sinners if jesus already died to wash away our present and future sins?
No one is born a "sinner" any more than someone is born an athlete, an artist or a musician. People are born with innate abilities and inclinations but we are not any of those things at birth. We are, however, all born with the natural inclination to look out for ourselves first, and at some point we all take that natural inclination to a point where we know that we're doing something wrong. That is when we become sinners.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Its said we are all born sinners but yet jesus died for all of man's sins... past, present and future....so how are we born sinners if jesus already died to wash away our present and future sins?
in Spanish.....sin means .....without

are we born without God?....yes

and so.....born with sin
 
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