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Is Yahweh A Liar? Yes, He Is. I Can Prove It.

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Trail, why are you quoting only one verse here?

"In the day that thy walls are to be built, in that day shall the decree be far removed.
In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain. Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings."

What walls were being built when Bahaullah visited those places? What land became desolate? And Assyria didn't exist anymore when Baha'u'llah was alive, so he didn't come "from Assyria" to anywhere.

So there's no fulfillment of anything more than something partial and vague.
I only quoted one verse because I was just giving an 'example' of one prophecy that was fulfilled by Baha'u'llah. This was not intended to be a treatise, but now that you brought it up, below is what I wrote on the subject of Micah 12 some time ago:
All we're really using is verse 12, though. What is verse 13 talking about, and what is the rest of the chapter talking about? Is it all a Messianic prophecy? If it's only verse 12, then it's hard for me to accept one verse taken out of context, so, hopefully, you can tie in the rest of the chapter.
Okay, I will try to tie it in…

Micah 7 King James Version (KJV)

7 Woe is me! for I am as when they have gathered the summer fruits, as the grapegleanings of the vintage: there is no cluster to eat: my soul desired the firstripe fruit.

2 The good man is perished out of the earth: and there is none upright among men: they all lie in wait for blood; they hunt every man his brother with a net.

3 That they may do evil with both hands earnestly, the prince asketh, and the judge asketh for a reward; and the great man, he uttereth his mischievous desire: so they wrap it up.

4 The best of them is as a brier: the most upright is sharper than a thorn hedge: the day of thy watchmen and thy visitation cometh; now shall be their perplexity.

5 Trust ye not in a friend, put ye not confidence in a guide: keep the doors of thy mouth from her that lieth in thy bosom.

6 For the son dishonoureth the father, the daughter riseth up against her mother, the daughter in law against her mother in law; a man's enemies are the men of his own house.


I think that the gist of verses 1-6 is summarized in verse 2 -- The good man is perished out of the earth: and there is none upright among men – and verses 1-6 are a lead-in to the verses that come after that.

7 Therefore I will look unto the Lord; I will wait for the God of my salvation: my God will hear me.

8 Rejoice not against me, O mine enemy: when I fall, I shall arise; when I sit in darkness, the Lord shall be a light unto me.

9 I will bear the indignation of the Lord, because I have sinned against him, until he plead my cause, and execute judgment for me: he will bring me forth to the light, and I shall behold his righteousness.

10 Then she that is mine enemy shall see it, and shame shall cover her which said unto me, Where is the Lord thy God? mine eyes shall behold her: now shall she be trodden down as the mire of the streets.


Then, in verses 7-10, he says he will look to the Lord, because man has failed (which he described in verses 1-6).

7 Therefore I will look unto the Lord; I will wait for the God of my salvation: my God will hear me.

Verse 7 is a lead-in to verses 11-20, which are about the Lord, the Lord of Hosts who will come in the Person of the Messiah. Micah describes what will happen in that day. All these things happened in the days of Baha’u’llah.

11 In the day that thy walls are to be built, in that day shall the decree be far removed.

The decree was removed in 1844:

Edict of Toleration 1844

An edict of toleration is a declaration, made by a government or ruler and states, that members of a given religion will not be persecuted for engaging in their religious practices and traditions. The edict implies tacit acceptance of the religion rather than its endorsement by the ruling power.

Edict of toleration - Wikipedia

Verse 12 describes where the Messiah will come from and go to:

12 In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.

Verses 13-20 describe what the land would look like and what the Messiah would do.

13 Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.

14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.

15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.

16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.

17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the Lord our God, and shall fear because of thee.

18 Who is a God like unto thee, thatpardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? heretaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.

20 Thou wilt perform the truth to Jacob, and the mercy to Abraham, which thou hast sworn unto our fathers from the days of old.


All of this can be tied in with what William Sears wrote in his book Thief in the Night.

Sears listed many things the Messiah would do but I am clipping out only the parts that pertain to Micah 7. In the book, Sears explained exactly how Baha’u’llah fulfilled these prophecies.

1. He would come from Assyria.
2. He would come from the fortified cities.
3. He would come from a fortress to a river.
4. He would come from sea to sea.
5. He would come from mountain to mountain.
6. The land to which he came would be desolate.
7. He would feed his flock in the midst of Mount Carmel.
8. He would work his wonders for a period equal to the days which the Jews spent coming out of Egypt.

Thief in the Night, p. 122

Now that I am discussing the prophecies of Micah, here are a few more that were fulfilled. Sears continues on…..

Frankly, I felt that a fulfillment of these prophecies would be sufficient by itself to establish the authenticity of the Messiah, for in addition to these eight prophesies, Bahá’u’lláh had also fulfilled Micah’s prophesies that the Messiah must:

1. Come as a Messenger of God and tread upon the high places of the earth.
2. Appear in the day when the children of Israel would be gathered into their own land.
3. Establish his house in the mountain.
4. Draw the people to it in a flow of love.
5. Send forth His love from that mountain.
6. Go to Babylon.
7. Withdraw from the city.
8. Dwell in the wilderness and the field.
9. Give birth in Babylon that would redeem the children of Israel.

Thief in the Night, pp. 122-123

Even if the Bible prophecies were the ONLY proof of who Baha’u’llah was, that would be enough for me, if I believed in the Bible. I do believe in the Bible so they are ample proof for me. As I said to a Christian on another thread yesterday:

I am not sure what you would consider trustworthy. I was never a Christian so my basis for belief in Baha’u’llah was the same as your basis for believing in Jesus -- His Person, His life and His mission, and the scriptures that He wrote. If I was a Christian, my basis for believing there was another Prophet/Messenger who would come after Jesus would be the promises Jesus made and what is in the OT about the Messiah to come. I would want to know if Baha’u’llah fulfilled Jesus’ promises and the OT prophecies.

The Bible prophecies and how they were fulfilled by Baha’u’llah are all outlined in this book that can be read online at your leisure:

William Sears, Thief in the Night
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Yahweh is okay when he makes grand sweeping prophecies that he will do things that are described in vague opaque terms like, "And I will bring forth great suffering on the inhabitants of the earth for they have done evil in my sight. I the Lord have spoken." Well, duh! We've seen people suffering every day since hominids stood upright. But when Yahweh gets real specific then he has a way of tripping all over himself.

Yahweh lied to no less than three prophets in the Old Testament that he would dry up the Nile river and he never did.

"I will dry up the streams of the Nile and sell the land to evil men; by the hand of foreigners I will lay waste the land and everything in it. I the LORD have spoken." Ezekiel 30:12

Never happened.

"...the river shall be wasted and dried up. The fishermen will groan and lament, all who cast hooks into the Nile." Isaiah 19:5,8

Never happened.

"They shall pass through the sea of Egypt, and the waves of the sea shall be smitten and all the depth of the Nile dried up." Zechariah 10:11

The Nile never dried up.

Christians invent all sorts of excuses for God's failure to keep his word. One says, "Well, these are metaphoric. God means he will figuratively dry up the Nile." What???? Another says, "Well, God is really saying that he will dry up the tributaries of the Nile, not the Nile itself."

To that I have a very succinct explanation of why that is erroneous:

The original Hebrew text simply uses the plural form of the word for "Nile" (Ye'or), hence literally the "Niles", likely referring to the various stretches of the river, or the Blue Nile and the White Nile that at one point run together. The plural "Niles" cannot be stretched to mean mere tributaries that would not be considered part of the Nile proper at all. A few other respected translations make this passage a bit more clear:
  • "I will dry up the waters of the Nile and sell the land to an evil nation. I the LORD have spoken," New International Version
  • "I will dry up the Nile River and sell the land to wicked men. I, the LORD, have spoken!" New Living Translation

Then there's always that old chestnut any apologist can fall back on when all else fails.

"It's a future prophecy yet to be fulfilled."

Come on! :rolleyes:
I'll go with metaphor myself.
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Yahweh is okay when he makes grand sweeping prophecies that he will do things that are described in vague opaque terms like, "And I will bring forth great suffering on the inhabitants of the earth for they have done evil in my sight. I the Lord have spoken." Well, duh! We've seen people suffering every day since hominids stood upright. But when Yahweh gets real specific then he has a way of tripping all over himself.

Yahweh lied to no less than three prophets in the Old Testament that he would dry up the Nile river and he never did.

"I will dry up the streams of the Nile and sell the land to evil men; by the hand of foreigners I will lay waste the land and everything in it. I the LORD have spoken." Ezekiel 30:12

Never happened.

"...the river shall be wasted and dried up. The fishermen will groan and lament, all who cast hooks into the Nile." Isaiah 19:5,8

Never happened.

"They shall pass through the sea of Egypt, and the waves of the sea shall be smitten and all the depth of the Nile dried up." Zechariah 10:11

The Nile never dried up.

Christians invent all sorts of excuses for God's failure to keep his word. One says, "Well, these are metaphoric. God means he will figuratively dry up the Nile." What???? Another says, "Well, God is really saying that he will dry up the tributaries of the Nile, not the Nile itself."

To that I have a very succinct explanation of why that is erroneous:

The original Hebrew text simply uses the plural form of the word for "Nile" (Ye'or), hence literally the "Niles", likely referring to the various stretches of the river, or the Blue Nile and the White Nile that at one point run together. The plural "Niles" cannot be stretched to mean mere tributaries that would not be considered part of the Nile proper at all. A few other respected translations make this passage a bit more clear:
  • "I will dry up the waters of the Nile and sell the land to an evil nation. I the LORD have spoken," New International Version
  • "I will dry up the Nile River and sell the land to wicked men. I, the LORD, have spoken!" New Living Translation

Then there's always that old chestnut any apologist can fall back on when all else fails.

"It's a future prophecy yet to be fulfilled."

Come on! :rolleyes:
Also, many people not too far from the Nile have that work perfectly today. Very poor living conditions.
 

SeekingAllTruth

Well-Known Member
I'll go with metaphor myself.
I forgot to include allegorical in the mix. So we have literal, symbolic, metaphor, and allegory. Now who, beside the person reading it, decides if what the Bible says is literal, symbolic, allegorical or metaphorical--or any combination of the 4 and in what percentages? If the gospel reads, "And Jesus bowing his head, gave up the ghost". Maybe that an allegory to teach us that all will die someday. Maybe Jesus is a metaphor for the need for man to die to his selfish ambitions and become more spiritual. Maybe it's a symbol for Christianity giving up its lust for money, power and influence. Maybe it's a combination of 45% allegory and 65% metaphor with a pinch of literal tossed in for realism. The premise that all this is many things other than literal is insanity.

With regard to "I will dry up the Nile" how does one interpret it other than literally without getting into the kind of confusion I just described? No wonder people are fleeing Christianity by the tens of millions every day. Who can live their lives under such craziness?
 
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SeekingAllTruth

Well-Known Member
As far as OT prophecies go, I know of very many that have been fulfilled...

These prophecies and how they were fulfilled by Baha'u'llah were delineated in the book Thief in the Night by William Sears.
Please educate us. I know of none, because realistically people wrote the Bible, not God and people don't have the ability to predict the future. It they did, we'd have all sorts of predictions made 500 years ago that are coming true today. I know of none.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Please educate us. I know of none, because realistically people wrote the Bible, not God and people don't have the ability to predict the future. It they did, we'd have all sorts of predictions made 500 years ago that are coming true today. I know of none.
I do not have to do the work myself because it had already been done. If you want to get educated, the Bible prophecies and how they were fulfilled by Baha'u'llah were delineated in the book Thief in the Night by William Sears

On top of that, all the predictions that Baha'u'llah made over 150 years ago re coming true today.
 

SeekingAllTruth

Well-Known Member
I do not have to do the work myself because it had already been done. If you want to get educated, the Bible prophecies and how they were fulfilled by Baha'u'llah were delineated in the book Thief in the Night by William Sears

On top of that, all the predictions that Baha'u'llah made over 150 years ago re coming true today.
With regards to Baha'u'llah I'm not educated on him so I'll take your word. Far as the Bible goes, I've done the work and I've not found a single prophecy that is starkly clear as crystal that has been fulfilled, such as.....well, "And I will dry up the Nile" lol.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
With regards to Baha'u'llah I'm not educated on him so I'll take your word. Far as the Bible goes, I've done the work and I've not found a single prophecy that is starkly clear as crystal that has been fulfilled, such as.....well, "And I will dry up the Nile" lol.
Bible prophecies were not intended to be crystal clear, that is not how they were written, because God tests His servants. ;)

Logically speaking, the only way to know is a Bible prophecy has been fulfilled is to read it and then read what the alleged claimant did and compare them side by side. that is what William Sears did in his book entitled Thief in the Night. It is only after one has done this that they can know if Baha'u'llah fulfilled the prophecies. Below are some examples of what i am saying:

Isaiah 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Bahá’u’lláh was rejected by his own countrymen, and was sent into exile. His life was filled with grief and sorrow.

The Emperor Franz Joseph passed within but a short distance of the prison in which Bahá’u’lláh was captive. Louis Napoleon cast behind his back the letter which Bahá’u’lláh sent to him, saying: “If this man is of God, then I am two Gods!” The people of the world have followed in their footsteps.

Isaiah 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

I read the following words of Bahá’u’lláh concerning his persecution and imprisonment: “Though weariness lay Me low, and hunger consume Me, and the bare rock be My bed, and My fellows the beasts of the field, I will not complain, but will endure patiently … and will render thanks unto God under all conditions … We pray that, out of His bounty—exalted be He—He may release, through this imprisonment, the necks of men from chains and fetters…” The Promised Day is Come, Shoghi Effendi, pp. 42–3.

Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Bahá’u’lláh was twice stoned, once scourged, thrice poisoned, scarred with hundred-pound chains which cut through his flesh and rested upon the bones of his shoulders. He lived a prisoner and an exile for nearly half a century.

Isaiah 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Bahá’u’lláh was taken from the black-pit prison in Tihrán for judgement before the authorities. His death was expected hourly, but he was banished to ‘Iráq and finally to Israel. In the prison-city of ‘Akká, on another occasion, “… the Governor, at the head of his troops, with drawn swords, surrounded (Bahá’u’lláh’s) house. The entire populace, as well as the military authorities, were in a state of great agitation. The shouts and clamour of the people could be heard on all sides. Bahá’u’lláh was peremptorily summoned to the Governorate, interrogated, kept in custody the first night … The Governor, soon after, sent word that he was at liberty to return to his home, and apologized for what had occurred.” God Passes By, Shoghi Effendi, pp. 190–191.

Isaiah 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

Bahá’u’lláh was buried in the precincts of the Mansion of Bahjí, owned by a wealthy Muslim. He was surrounded by enemies; members of his own family who betrayed his trust after his death and dwelt in homes adjacent to his burial-place.

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

Bahá’u’lláh did see his ‘seed’. He wrote a special document called the Book of the Covenant, in which he appointed his eldest son to be the Centre of his Faith after his own passing. This very event was also foretold in the prophecies of the Psalms that proclaim:“Also I will make him my first-born higher than the kings of the earth … and my covenant shall stand fast with him.” Psalms 89:27, 28

The ‘first-born’ son of Bahá’u’lláh, was named ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, which means ‘the servant of Bahá’(‘u’lláh). Bahá’u’lláh appointed him as his own successor in his Will and Testament. He called ‘Abdu’l-Baháthe Centre of his Covenant.

Bahá’u’lláh’s days were prolonged. He was born in 1817 and passed away in the Holy Land in 1892. In the last years of his life, Bahá’u’lláh was released from his prison cell. He came out of the prison-city of ‘Akká and walked on the sides of Mount Carmel. His followers came from afar to be with him, and to surround him with their love, fulfilling the words of the prayer of David spoken within a cave: “Bring my soul out of prison, that I may praise thy name: the righteous shall compass me about; for thou shalt deal bountifully with me.” Psalms 142:7.

These events in the valley of ‘Akká with its strong fortress prison had been foreshadowed in Ecclesiastes 4:14: “For out of prison he cometh to reign; whereas also he that is born in his kingdom becometh poor.”

Thief in the Night, pp. 155-159
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I forgot to include allegorical in the mix. So we have literal, symbolic, metaphor, and allegory. Now who, beside the person reading it, decides if what the Bible says is literal, symbolic, allegorical or metaphorical--or any combination of the 4 and in what percentages? If the gospel reads, "And Jesus bowing his head, gave up the ghost". Maybe that an allegory to teach us that all will die someday. Maybe Jesus is a metaphor for the need for man to die to his selfish ambitions and become more spiritual. Maybe it's a symbol for Christianity giving up its lust for money, power and influence. Maybe it's a combination of 45% allegory and 65% metaphor with a pinch of literal tossed in for realism. The premise that all this is many things other than literal is insanity.

With regard to "I will dry up the Nile" how does one interpret it other than literally without getting into the kind of confusion I just described? No wonder people are fleeing Christianity by the tens of millions every day. Who can live their lives under such craziness?
My church would say that's why it helps to read with the spirit.
 

37818

Active Member
Two things, yes Egypt has a Nile river. What is the Hebrew word in those prophecies translated as "Nile?"
 

leroy

Well-Known Member
Yahweh is okay when he makes grand sweeping prophecies that he will do things that are described in vague opaque terms like, "And I will bring forth great suffering on the inhabitants of the earth for they have done evil in my sight. I the Lord have spoken." Well, duh! We've seen people suffering every day since hominids stood upright. But when Yahweh gets real specific then he has a way of tripping all over himself.

Yahweh lied to no less than three prophets in the Old Testament that he would dry up the Nile river and he never did.

"I will dry up the streams of the Nile and sell the land to evil men; by the hand of foreigners I will lay waste the land and everything in it. I the LORD have spoken." Ezekiel 30:12

Never happened.

"...the river shall be wasted and dried up. The fishermen will groan and lament, all who cast hooks into the Nile." Isaiah 19:5,8

Never happened.

"They shall pass through the sea of Egypt, and the waves of the sea shall be smitten and all the depth of the Nile dried up." Zechariah 10:11

The Nile never dried up.

Christians invent all sorts of excuses for God's failure to keep his word. One says, "Well, these are metaphoric. God means he will figuratively dry up the Nile." What???? Another says, "Well, God is really saying that he will dry up the tributaries of the Nile, not the Nile itself."

To that I have a very succinct explanation of why that is erroneous:

The original Hebrew text simply uses the plural form of the word for "Nile" (Ye'or), hence literally the "Niles", likely referring to the various stretches of the river, or the Blue Nile and the White Nile that at one point run together. The plural "Niles" cannot be stretched to mean mere tributaries that would not be considered part of the Nile proper at all. A few other respected translations make this passage a bit more clear:
  • "I will dry up the waters of the Nile and sell the land to an evil nation. I the LORD have spoken," New International Version
  • "I will dry up the Nile River and sell the land to wicked men. I, the LORD, have spoken!" New Living Translation

Then there's always that old chestnut any apologist can fall back on when all else fails.

"It's a future prophecy yet to be fulfilled."

Come on! :rolleyes:
Then there's always that old chestnut any apologist can fall back on when all else fails.

"It's a future prophecy yet to be fulfilled."

Come on!

Well as far as I understand that prophecy is supposed to be a prophecy of the end times.....so its not expected to be fulfilled yet.
 

leroy

Well-Known Member
With regards to Baha'u'llah I'm not educated on him so I'll take your word. Far as the Bible goes, I've done the work and I've not found a single prophecy that is starkly clear as crystal that has been fulfilled, such as.....well, "And I will dry up the Nile" lol.

Prohecy: burried in a rich mans tomb...... Isaíah 53:9

We know that Jesus was buried in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea (a rich man)


Why isn’t this “crystal clear”?
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
How should the Bible be read? Literally? Symbolically? Metaphorically? Combinations of all three? You know this opens up the Bible to endless different interpretations, which then neuters its validity. If Christians cannot trust that when Yahweh says he will do something, he will actually do it, then why believe it, unless it just the belief itself that gives the Christian some sort of comfort regardless of whether or not the words themselves are true?
There are already endless different interpretations. That's what makes theology endless fun for those who enjoy debate.

The Bible itself is against literalism:
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Because not everything in translation is literally true does not make it false. If Moses crossed the Reed Sea as a piece of research indicated and not the Red Sea, does that automatically make the entire Bible false?
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
cOLTER, I'm shocked. You agree that the words of Yahweh in the Old Testament are not really spoken by Yahweh but just attributed to him, even though it says, "I the Lord have spoken"??????
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Why would you be shocked, the OT is a layer cake of ancient history, redactions, edits and additions. After the fall of the 1st Temple and the destruction of Israel's nationalist ego, the Israelite priest class completely recast their history in Babylon. They converted a relatively ordinary secular history into a miraculous fiction. Secular history books mentioned in the OT vanished. The burning of the Library at Alexandria destroyed any hope of a window into that age.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Well as far as I understand that prophecy is supposed to be a prophecy of the end times.....so its not expected to be fulfilled yet.
Not unless we have entered the end times. ;)
I believe we have entered the end times and we are still in them, so many prophecies have been fulfilled and others are yet to be fulfilled during this age, the Messianic Age.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Yahweh is okay when he makes grand sweeping prophecies that he will do things that are described in vague opaque terms like, "And I will bring forth great suffering on the inhabitants of the earth for they have done evil in my sight. I the Lord have spoken." Well, duh! We've seen people suffering every day since hominids stood upright. But when Yahweh gets real specific then he has a way of tripping all over himself.

Yahweh lied to no less than three prophets in the Old Testament that he would dry up the Nile river and he never did.

"I will dry up the streams of the Nile and sell the land to evil men; by the hand of foreigners I will lay waste the land and everything in it. I the LORD have spoken." Ezekiel 30:12

Never happened.

"...the river shall be wasted and dried up. The fishermen will groan and lament, all who cast hooks into the Nile." Isaiah 19:5,8

Never happened.

"They shall pass through the sea of Egypt, and the waves of the sea shall be smitten and all the depth of the Nile dried up." Zechariah 10:11

The Nile never dried up.

Christians invent all sorts of excuses for God's failure to keep his word. One says, "Well, these are metaphoric. God means he will figuratively dry up the Nile." What???? Another says, "Well, God is really saying that he will dry up the tributaries of the Nile, not the Nile itself."

To that I have a very succinct explanation of why that is erroneous:

The original Hebrew text simply uses the plural form of the word for "Nile" (Ye'or), hence literally the "Niles", likely referring to the various stretches of the river, or the Blue Nile and the White Nile that at one point run together. The plural "Niles" cannot be stretched to mean mere tributaries that would not be considered part of the Nile proper at all. A few other respected translations make this passage a bit more clear:
  • "I will dry up the waters of the Nile and sell the land to an evil nation. I the LORD have spoken," New International Version
  • "I will dry up the Nile River and sell the land to wicked men. I, the LORD, have spoken!" New Living Translation

Then there's always that old chestnut any apologist can fall back on when all else fails.

"It's a future prophecy yet to be fulfilled."

Come on! :rolleyes:
No need to get too excited. God is an admitted liar, not a secret one ─

1 Kings 22:23 Now, therefore, behold, the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; the Lord has spoken evil concerning you.”

2 Chronicles 18:22 Now therefore, behold, the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of these your prophets; the Lord has spoken evil concerning you.

Jeremiah 4:10 ... “Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast utterly deceived this people and Jerusalem ...”

Jeremiah 20: 7 O Lord, thou hast deceived me, / and I was deceived;

Ezekiel 14:9 And if the prophet be deceived and speak a word, I, the Lord, have deceived that prophet

2 Thessalonians 2:11 Therefore God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false.​
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
Here's an example of a prophecy that I would think would be transparent and easily detected:

* Written by a Jewish prophet living in Babylon during the 500s BCE, perhaps Ezekiel.
* written in unambiguous terms, such as "In the 15th year of the Roman Emperor Tiberius, a man named Joshua, son of Joseph, from a small village in Galilee called Nazareth, will begin preaching. Just before Passover in the next year, he will be executed by the Romans."
* it would have to be recorded in such a way that it could not have been written later (say, a hundred years after Jesus' lifetime); and the prophecy's age, dating back to the 500s, cannot be questioned. For example, the prophecy would be written in a document clearly dated to the time of its origin, and it is discovered under controlled archaeological conditions during the modern era...say, tomorrow.

Just my thoughts...
 

Dave Watchman

Active Member
"I will dry up the streams of the Nile and sell the land to evil men; by the hand of foreigners I will lay waste the land and everything in it. I the LORD have spoken." Ezekiel 30:12

I wish I had time to figure this one out for you.

Never happened.

But it might have.

There's different kinds of prophecy.

Local prophecy.

Day of the Lord prophecy.

Messianic prophecy.

Judaic prophecy.

Apocalyptic prophecy.

Each of these have their own architecture, their own specifications.

Your Ezekiel 30 looks to have some Day of the Lord, and some Judaic.

The Judaic prophesy of the OT, having to do with the Old Time Jews, were conditional.

If Z Old Time Jews were to have redeemed the 70 weeks, the Ezekiel and Isaiah and Jeremiah type Script would have happened already.

The Nile never dried up.

Neither did the Great River Euphrates.

"And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the Kings of the east might be prepared.​

I would imagine this to be symbolic language for destruction that comes from the north.

There's a bunch of Bible verses that talk about destruction coming from the north.

“Out of the north the evil will break forth on all the inhabitants of the land.

“Flee for safety, O sons of Benjamin,
From the midst of Jerusalem!
Now blow a trumpet in Tekoa
And raise a signal over Beth-haccerem;
For evil looks down from the north,
And a great destruction.​

I put two, but there's more.

The great river Euphrates was an important natural boundary which kept back, or discouraged, invading armies coming down from the north and attacking Israel.

When it dries up, the way will be prepared for the Kings from the East.

When it dries up, it means destruction time.

The time is come for God to destroy the destroyers of the Earth.

Kings from the East.

I count two of them.

I imagine They would be ;

"They called to the mountains and the rocks, 'Fall on us and hide us from the face of:
1) Him who sits on the throne and from the:
2) wrath of the Lamb!"​
 
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Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Prohecy: burried in a rich mans tomb...... Isaíah 53:9

We know that Jesus was buried in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea (a rich man)


Why isn’t this “crystal clear”?
No, we do not know that. That was merely the claim in the Bible. Jesus, if he did exist, was probably left on the cross.
 
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