Just because clergy believes something doesn't make it right. This applies to not just Judaism but also Christianity. That's an appeal to tradition. The interpretations that teach that following the teachings of Jesus is strange worship because he didn't fulfill the expectations of the Messiah are not a basis of saying that the teachings of Jesus are strange worship. That is circular reasoning.
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How can a Jew reject Jesus as the Messiah?
- Thread starter ayin
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- jesusisyhwh
Just because clergy believes something doesn't make it right. This applies to not just Judaism but also Christianity. That's an appeal to tradition. The interpretations that teach that following the teachings of Jesus is strange worship because he didn't fulfill the expectations of the Messiah are not a basis of saying that the teachings of Jesus are strange worship. That is circular reasoning.
rosends
Well-Known Member
You have it wrong. Just because an individual or small group says that the clergy is wrong doesn't make the clergy wrong. This is an appeal to novelty. The interpretations that teach following Jesus are strange worship because he didn't fulfill the expectations of the Messiah, so saying that the expectations must be wrong because you believe in Jesus is self-justifying.
I never said that the expectations of the Jews who followed Jesus are right because I believe in Jesus. I was explaining why I don't believe that the rabbis who rejected Jesus are correct just because they are clergy. People confuse the teachings of clergy with God. They are human beings who make mistakes like everyone else.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
No, it is the fact that you use an image of flesh (aka Jesus) for God. Jesus himself, the man, is the idol.
Christians believe that God is to be worshipped and no other person or being is to be worshipped. The difference is that we believe that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
And THAT is the whole point. It's like saying, we know that worshiping idols is a sin because they aren't god, but our idol is different because OUR idol really IS god.
Some Jewish Christians believed that Jesus was the Messiah but not God. That is heresy. Only God saves and delivers.
rosends
Well-Known Member
When they are following what God taught, and you decide that they are wrong, then you are ignorant and arrogant.
Everyone believes that what the other side of the discussion believes is wrong.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
God doesn't have a monopoly on saving or delivering people. Any lifeguard can save people. The messiah will undoubtedly be an earthly savior of Israel just as David was, but not the sort that saves us from our sins. And he certainly won't be God.
But that doesn't mean that it would be appropriate to say that a lifeguard saved your life, like he was God. Only God deserves that credit.
rosends
Well-Known Member
Great. Now that we have clarified that, there is no reason to continue. Thank you.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
OMGosh!!!! If a life guard saved my life, I would be telling everyone I could that the life guard saved my life!!!!
If I was talking about that person's character to them or someone else and I saved they saved my life, that wouldn't be right to say, because only God saves. There's a difference between saying that a lifeguard saved someone's life and saying that they are ultimately the one who saved them.
I wasn't dismissing your opinion, I was responding to what you said about appeal to tradition and
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Look, you are playing word games. I'm not. If a lifeguard saves a person's life, and that person doesn't go around telling others that he saved their life and how grateful they are, well, they they are the worst sort of ingrate there is.
rosends
Well-Known Member
You dismiss tradition, I dismiss novelty.
Where did I say that Jesus is the Messiah because a smaller number of people believed in Jesus than didn't believe in Jesus? I believe in trusting God, not in trusting what something just because it's taught by the clergy. A lot of people turn away from God because of the mistakes of the church, which have nothing to do with God.
You could say that the lifeguard helped the person, but not that they were ultimately the one who saved their life.