Is according to Jews everything God's will?

[Skywalker]

Again, it is irrelevant that he was born in Bethlehem.

He cannot have been born of the line of David unless you can show me his BIO dad, and that bio dad's lineage. Who was his bio dad?

Joseph was the stepfather of Jesus. He was biologically related to David's son Nathan through Mary, and related by law through Joseph who was a descendant of David's son Solomon.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The Messiah in Isaiah 53 resurrecting by prolonging his days matches what Jewish writings talk about. I don't agree with the Jewish belief of two messiahs, but it's based off of finding a replacement for Jesus-and thus it has roots in the second coming of Jesus. I believe that everyone has the same desire to know Christ but some people suppress it. Do Jewish People Expect Messiah to Resurrect? | Messianic Bible

Isaiah 53 -- about Israel.
There is no Messiah ben Joseph.
Messianic Bible? Christian stuff with a Yarmulka on top. Doesn't fool me.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

When Jesus returns, there will be 1000 years of peace, and all of Israel will be regathered. He will rule the kingdoms of the world righteously from Jerusalem. There are Jewish writings that hint about the two functions of the Messiah. Do Jewish People Expect Messiah to Resurrect? | Messianic Bible

Too late. Jesus already came, and did not fulfill these prophecies, and thus is not the messiah.

 

[Skywalker]

Isaiah 53 -- about Israel.
There is no Messiah ben Joseph.
Messianic Bible? Christian stuff with a Yarmulka on top. Doesn't fool me.

I agree that there is no Messiah Ben Joseph. He's a replacement for Jesus, our Creator, and Savior. The belief of there being two Messiahs is a way to get around the fact that Jesus is the Messiah.

 

[Skywalker]

Too late. Jesus already came, and did not fulfill these prophecies, and thus is not the messiah.

Jesus will fulfill certain prophecies when he returns. Does the Old Testament truly predict a second advent of the Messiah? | GotQuestions.org

All in all, the Hebrew Scriptures indicate that the Promised One would appear, be cut off, and then reappear in victory. The first advent has occurred; the second is still future. Both the New and Old Testaments predict a second advent of the Messiah.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

That doesn't mean that the Messiah won't be born in Bethlehem. Joseph was a descendant of Solomon and the virgin Mary was a descendant of Nathan.

Is Joseph Jesus' bio dad? No? Then he is irrelevant. Is Mary Jesus' bio dad? No? Then she is irrelevant. The Davidic line is passed only through the bio dads.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Jesus will fulfill certain prophecies when he returns. Does the Old Testament truly predict a second advent of the Messiah? | GotQuestions.org

Whoever the Messiah is, we will know him because he will fulfill ALL the prophecies in one advent. One Lifetime.

 

[Harel13]

The idea of the Messiah being a Savior is consistent with even the most fair judge has to be righteous and punish sin. God became the Messiah as the deepest expression of love for his creation. There is no person good enough for heaven. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Romans 3:10


If a person could be good enough to make it to heaven on their own merit, why did God the Father, the creator of all there is on heaven and on earth, permit his own innocent son Jesus to be falsely accused, shamefully and painfully mistreated, and nailed to a Roman cross to die? He suffered and died because death and eternal separation from him, is the consequences for sin.

That's nice, but has nothing to do with the my post which you're replying to.

 

[Skywalker]

Is Joseph Jesus' bio dad? No? Then he is irrelevant. Is Mary Jesus' bio dad? No? Then she is irrelevant. The Davidic line is passed only through the bio dads.

The Messiah, being God, could not have a biological father. Jesus was born of a virgin because he's God incarnate. Messianic Prophecies Fulfilled by Yeshua

Messiah is the Son of God.
Tenakh/Hebrew Scripture
Psalm 2:7, I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Proverbs 30:4, Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

Br'it Chadashah/New Covenant
John 3:16, For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Luke 3, ...a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Only God is a Savior and Messiah. Nobody else deserves that title.

Perfect sacrifice.
Tenakh/Hebrew Scripture
Leviticus 16 details how the priest is to give atonement for the sins of the people by shedding the blood of animals. These animals were substitutionary sacrifices. Moses's actions picture what Christ would do on the cross as the perfect sacrifice- deity in human form without sin and without blemish.

Br'it Chadashah/New Covenant
II Corinthians 5:21, For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

John 1:29, ...Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

I Peter 1:18-19, ...redeemed with...the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.

Unlike the blood of goats which had to be offered once a year in atonement, Christ takes away our sins for eternity.

 

[Skywalker]

Whoever the Messiah is, we will know him because he will fulfill ALL the prophecies in one advent. One Lifetime.

The Old Testament talks about the Messiah having a first and a second advent. People rejected the idea that Jesus fulfilled the prophecies because they expected the Messiah to be a political figure.

Does the Old Testament truly predict a second advent of the Messiah? | GotQuestions.org

Question: "Does the Old Testament truly predict a second advent of the Messiah?"

Answer: The Old Testament does prophesy the second coming of Christ, also referred to as the second advent of the Messiah. Some Old Testament prophecies concern the first advent, when Christ was born as a human being. Others concern the second advent, which is the ultimate triumph of this Messiah. It’s important to remember that prophecy does not describe the future in the same detail as history describes the past. So, while the prophecies of the Old Testament certainly describe both the first and second advents, most early interpretations of these prophecies melded them into a single event. Particularly during the years leading up to Jesus’ birth, it was assumed Messiah would be a political/military figure with an immediate worldly kingdom (Luke 19:11). In the light of Jesus’ ministry, it is possible to understand the true purpose of Christ and the real nature of His kingdom.

 

[Skywalker]

That's nice, but has nothing to do with the my post which you're replying to.

Animal sacrifices in the Old Testament foreshadowed God coming to remove the barrier of sin between God and people. With the barrier of sin removed, it's up to the person if they want to come to God or not.

 

[Harel13]

Animal sacrifices in the Old Testament foreshadowed God coming to remove the barrier of sin between God and people.

How so? Previously you said that animal sacrifices merely covered sin. How does that foreshadow a removal of sin? It's not the same thing.

 

[Skywalker]

How so? Previously you said that animal sacrifices merely covered sin. How does that foreshadow a removal of sin? It's not the same thing.

Forgiveness and atonement are different. I can forgive someone who wronged me but I can't atone for their sins.

 

[Harel13]

Forgiveness and atonement are different. I can forgive someone who wronged me but I can't atone for their sins.

Excellent. That is exactly what I wrote above, but with different words. How does that answer my question?

 

[Skywalker]

How so? Previously you said that animal sacrifices merely covered sin. How does that foreshadow a removal of sin? It's not the same thing.

Animal sacrifices foreshadowed removal of sin because they were types and shadows of Jesus.

 

[Harel13]

Animal sacrifices foreshadowed removal of sin because they were types and shadows of Jesus.

Okay, this is about the third circling of the same question we've had in the last couple of minutes, added to circling from last night (Israel time). You have no answer, then. Gotcha. Was nice talking, though.

 

[Skywalker]

Just TRY reading it with a different mind set. PRETEND for five minutes that the remnant of Israel is the suffering servant, addressed in the singular (as it is many times) which suffers for all of Israel. Vicarious suffering -- look that up.

If the servant is both Israel and the remnant, why can't the servant songs refer to both Israel and the Messiah?

 

[rosends]

Man is an umbrella term that refers to men and women, and humanity in general.

But the Hebrew word used isn't "man" so you can't make this claim. If the text had used a generic word then, fine. But it doesn't.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

I believe that it's impossible to determine exactly what the prophecy in Isaiah 7:14 meant to the original hearers when it was delivered.

I accept that you "personally" don't know how to understand the Hebrew text, as it was written in a language and in a culture that you don't have first hand knowledge of and that you don't have contact with previous Jewish generations who had been/have been learning, teaching, and living it - thus in your current situation it would be impossible for you to know what Yeshayahu or any other Hebrew writer (past and present) meant/means/ in text they wrote/or have written.

So, that being the case it is best for you to leave it to the us professionals who know it, live it, teach it, and continiously learn it from previous Jewish generations who did the same before.

 

[Skywalker]

But the Hebrew word used isn't "man" so you can't make this claim. If the text had used a generic word then, fine. But it doesn't.

The word man in Genesis 6:5 refers to both men and women. That verse in the Old Testament mentions the wickedness of people. Just because the Catholic Church teaches original sin doesn't mean it's not true. Genesis 6:5 Hebrew Text Analysis

הָאָדָ֖ם
hā-’ā-ḏām