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Is according to Jews everything God's will?

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
if you want to rely on those misstatements and ignore what I sent, then that's on you.

Christians believe that Jesus will do all of those things when he returns. Which prophecy in specific did Jesus not fulfill?


Jesus Did Not Fulfill the Messianic Prophecies

What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish?

One of the central themes of biblical prophecy is the promise of a future age of perfection characterized by universal peace and recognition of God. (Isaiah 2:1-4, 32:15-18, 60:15-18; Zephaniah 3:9; Hosea 2:20-22; Amos 9:13-15; Micah 4:1-4; Zechariah 8:23, 14:9; Jeremiah 31:33-34) Specifically, the Bible says he will:

Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).

Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).

Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)

Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world – on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be the Messiah.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make him drink. Someday, when you decide to drink, let me know.

How can anyone other than God be a Savior? If someone described themselves as a Savior, it would be blasphemous, or at least prideful and arrogant.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
But Jews aren't Christian and don't believe that. You should discuss your beliefs with people who share them.

I understand that Jewish people aren't Christians and believe different things. I was responding to that article's opinion that says that Jesus isn't the Messiah because certain prophecies aren't fulfilled yet.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
How can anyone other than God be a Savior? If someone described themselves as a Savior, it would be blasphemous, or at least prideful and arrogant.
Let's assume the answer is "no." Then, since a messiah is not God, you just made a very important point.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
I understand that Jewish people aren't Christians and believe different things. I was responding to that article's opinion that says that Jesus isn't the Messiah because certain prophecies aren't fulfilled yet.
Great. You are sharing your opinion that Jesus will take care of those things at some later date. So what?
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Let's assume the answer is "no." Then, since a messiah is not God, you just made a very important point.

I believe that people who say you can't save everyone are being prideful because I understand what they are saying but they are not a Savior.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
I believe that people who say you can't save everyone are being prideful because I understand what they are saying but they are not a Savior.
and I believe that that is a wholly irrelevant statement as I said nothing that would connect with that response.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
and I believe that that is a wholly irrelevant statement as I said nothing that would connect with that response.

Do you think it's Jewish or Christian to describe a person as a Savior? Even Jews wouldn't agree with that. They said that God is a Savior as in God saves us from our troubles. That supports that the title of Savior is a title that only belongs to God.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Great. You are sharing your opinion that Jesus will take care of those things at some later date. So what?

I was responding to your opinion that Jesus didn't fulfill these prophecies. Messianic Prophecies Fulfilled by Yeshua

    • Daniel 9:24-26, Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks: and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

      The temple was destroyed in 70 A.D.--after the death of the Messiah.



    • Perfect sacrifice.
      Tenakh/Hebrew Scripture
      Leviticus 16 details how the priest is to give atonement for the sins of the people by shedding the blood of animals. These animals were substitutionary sacrifices. Moses's actions picture what Christ would do on the cross as the perfect sacrifice- deity in human form without sin and without blemish.

      Br'it Chadashah/New Covenant
      II Corinthians 5:21, For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

      John 1:29, ...Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

      I Peter 1:18-19, ...redeemed with...the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.

      Unlike the blood of goats which had to be offered once a year in atonement, Christ takes away our sins for eternity.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Let's assume the answer is "no." Then, since a messiah is not God, you just made a very important point.

The Messiah is described as a Savior in the Old Testament. Messianic Prophecies Fulfilled by Yeshua

Man of sorrows who was wounded for our transgressions.
Tenakh/Hebrew Scripture
Isaiah 53:4-5, Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Isaiah 53:10 says, Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, and he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Isaiah 53:12 says, ...he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Isaiah 53:8, ...for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Br'it Chadashah/New Covenant
II Corinthians 5:21..he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

I John 2:2, And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

I John 3:5, And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

I Peter 2:24, Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree [cross], that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
Do you think it's Jewish or Christian to describe a person as a Savior? Even Jews wouldn't agree with that. They said that God is a Savior as in God saves us from our troubles. That supports that the title of Savior is a title that only belongs to God.
You realize that the biblical text does refer to certain people as "saving" others or at least having the potential to save others, right? The word "moshiah" (savior) is used in Sam 1, and in Deuteronomy to refer to a person.

You should also review Isaiah 43:11 and think about how it seems to contradict Isaiah 19:20.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Yes, you responded to my opinion with your opinion. So noted.

I was saying that Jesus didn't fulfill these prophecies because he didn't fulfill the other ones ignores that the other ones are to be fulfilled later. Messianic Prophecies Fulfilled by Yeshua

Man of sorrows who was wounded for our transgressions.
Tenakh/Hebrew Scripture
Isaiah 53:4-5, Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Isaiah 53:10 says, Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, and he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Isaiah 53:12 says, ...he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Isaiah 53:8, ...for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Br'it Chadashah/New Covenant
II Corinthians 5:21..he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

I John 2:2, And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

I John 3:5, And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

I Peter 2:24, Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree [cross], that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Great! And if that's the case, then the answer has to be "yes"! That then makes the 2 citations I just gave about humans being called saviors less problematic. Well done!

Just because human beings are called saviors, that doesn't mean its appropriate.
 
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