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The Copper Scroll

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
There appears to be a wave of interest generated by the discovery of a copper scroll in Qumran, which, according to Jim Barfield (see You Tube videos), provides information on the whereabouts of a huge quantity of silver and gold vessels/furniture once associated with the temple in Jerusalem.

The real interest in this discovery is not so much the value of the treasure (worth billions, apparently) as the implications for a new temple in Jerusalem.

Would the unearthing of these vessels increase the likelihood of a new temple being built? How far have plans for such a building progressed? Can any good come from rebuilding the temple? Is it God's will that the temple should be rebuilt?

Your thoughts.
 
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exchemist

Veteran Member
There appears to be a wave of interest generated by the discovery of a copper scroll in Qumran, which, according to Jim Barfield (see You Tube videos), provides information on the whereabouts of a huge quantity of silver and gold vessels/furniture once associated with the temple in Jerusalem.

The real interest in this discovery is not so much the value of the treasure (worth billions, apparently) as the implications for a new temple in Jerusalem.

Would the unearthing of these vessels increase the likelihood of a new temple being built? How far have plans for such a building progressed? Can any good come from rebuilding the temple? Is it God's will that the temple should be rebuilt?

Your thoughts?
Not just Jim Barfield, whoever he may be. This scroll was discovered and deciphered in the 1950s, so there is nothing really new here: Copper Scroll

Barfield, however, seems to be some sort of crank: the insanity continues: jim barfield and the copper scroll project get another jpost article

He is not an archaeologist, but a retired assistant fire marshal, from somewhere in the American Midwest, apparently. I would take what he says about this scroll with a pinch of salt.
 
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Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
There appears to be a wave of interest generated by the discovery of a copper scroll in Qumran
Is there? This was discovered decades ago. I'm not saying it's not a cool find, I'm just wondering whether there really is a new wave of interest and if so, why would that be?
The real interest in this discovery is not so much the value of the treasure (worth billions, apparently) as the implications for a new temple in Jerusalem.

Would the unearthing of these vessels increase the likelihood of a new temple being built? How far have plans for such a building progressed? Can any good come from rebuilding the temple? Is it God's will that the temple should be rebuilt?
To this day there are disagreements whether the scroll is talking about a real cache or is fictitious or blowing things out of proportion. In any case, no such treasure has been found. Yet, whatever the find may be if ever found, I doubt it would spark heavy - if any - interest in the Temple.

As for plans for the next Temple, you may want to check this out: About us - Temple Institute
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Not just Jim Barfield, whoever he may be. This scroll was discovered and deciphered in the 1950s, so there is nothing really new here: Copper Scroll

Barfield, however, seem to be some sort of crank: the insanity continues: jim barfield and the copper scroll project get another jpost article

He is not an archaeologist, but a retired assistant fire marshal, from somewhere in the American Midwest, apparently. I would take what he says about this scroll with a pinch of salt.

To be fair to Jim Barfield, he was the first to state that his qualifications, or lack of formal qualifications, would cast doubts over his findings. He was not claiming to have discovered the scrolls, but to have deciphered the writings in a very literalist manner, which led him to make some extraordinary findings at the Qumran site.

The fact that some authorities in Israel are now taking notice of this should tell us that his findings have not yet been dismissed.

There are, without doubt, a number of competing interest groups in these archaeological enquiries, some of which have the power to cloud an honest investigation. It's even more important, given these interests, that a honest assessment should be based on the quality of the evidence.
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Is there? This was discovered decades ago. I'm not saying it's not a cool find, I'm just wondering whether there really is a new wave of interest and if so, why would that be?

To this day there are disagreements whether the scroll is talking about a real cache or is fictitious or blowing things out of proportion. In any case, no such treasure has been found. Yet, whatever the find may be if ever found, I doubt it would spark heavy - if any - interest in the Temple.

As for plans for the next Temple, you may want to check this out: About us - Temple Institute

That's an interesting article. The preparations are much further on that I had imagined, although the article gives little clue as to the support that such an undertaking would receive from the general populace of Israel. There is mention of the belief held by some that the Temple cannot be rebuilt until the appearance of the Messiah...but that cannot but lead to further differences of opinion!

It's worth watching the three episodes on the scroll at You Tube.[InGrace with Jim Scuddrer/Shelley Neese 'The Copper Scroll Project'. Sept 2019. 3 parts]
 

capumetu

Active Member
There appears to be a wave of interest generated by the discovery of a copper scroll in Qumran, which, according to Jim Barfield (see You Tube videos), provides information on the whereabouts of a huge quantity of silver and gold vessels/furniture once associated with the temple in Jerusalem.

The real interest in this discovery is not so much the value of the treasure (worth billions, apparently) as the implications for a new temple in Jerusalem.

Would the unearthing of these vessels increase the likelihood of a new temple being built? How far have plans for such a building progressed? Can any good come from rebuilding the temple? Is it God's will that the temple should be rebuilt?

Your thoughts?


Keep in mind that Jehovah destroyed the temple, taking the Kingdom from them and giving it to a new nation. It is my opinion that Jehovah will not allow a new temple to be built, since Christians have always had their spiritual temple.
 

SigurdReginson

Grēne Mann
Premium Member
Third temple?...

source.gif


We are now officially in the end times!
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
To be fair to Jim Barfield, he was the first to state that his qualifications, or lack of formal qualifications, would cast doubts over his findings. He was not claiming to have discovered the scrolls, but to have deciphered the writings in a very literalist manner, which led him to make some extraordinary findings at the Qumran site.

The fact that some authorities in Israel are now taking notice of this should tell us that his findings have not yet been dismissed.

There are, without doubt, a number of competing interest groups in these archaeological enquiries, some of which have the power to cloud an honest investigation. It's even more important, given these interests, that a honest assessment should be based on the quality of the evidence.
What findings are these, that authorities in Israel are taking an interest in? Has anything been published on them? Is there a link to something we can read?

Or is it just YouTube videos?
 
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Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
What findings are these, that authorities in Israel are taking an interest in? Has anything been published on them? Is there a link to something we can read?

Or is it just YouTube videos?

Have you watched the videos? They make reference to people in positions of authority with regard to antiquities in Israel.

The woman interviewed, Shelley Neese, is the author of the book, 'The Copper Scroll Project'. She appears to have links to the Museum of the Bible, in Washington D.C.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Have you watched the videos? They make reference to people in positions of authority with regard to antiquities in Israel.

The woman interviewed, Shelley Neese, is the author of the book, 'The Copper Scroll Project'. She appears to have links to the Museum of the Bible, in Washington D.C.
No I don't do YouTube videos, as a rule. YouTube is full of junk and videos take far too long to watch.

If this guy is serious, he will have published his findings. I don't actually believe the Israelis authorities will get too impressed by YouTube videos, either. They will want to read published research, too.

Shelley Neese is a journalist.
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Keep in mind that Jehovah destroyed the temple, taking the Kingdom from them and giving it to a new nation. It is my opinion that Jehovah will not allow a new temple to be built, since Christians have always had their spiritual temple.

I agree with you that the temple of Christ is spiritual [Revelation 21:22]. Does this preclude the possibility that a temple will be rebuilt to satisfy those Jews who see a rebuilding as essential for obedience to the Torah?

Tell me, what do you think the 'abomination of desolation' [Matthew 24:15; Daniel 9:27; 11:31] refers to?
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
No I don't do YouTube videos, as a rule. YouTube is full of junk and videos take far too long to watch.

If this guy is serious, he will have published his findings. I don't actually believe the Israelis authorities will get too impressed by YouTube videos, either. They will want to read published research, too.

Shelley Neese is a journalist.

It goes without saying that Jim Barfield has had to convince people with evidence. Whether he has made all his findings public, given the nature of the project, is unlikely. But , if you want to do the research yourself, then take a look at the paraphrase and comments by Hack and Carey: The Copper scroll: 3Q15.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
It goes without saying that Jim Barfield has had to convince people with evidence. Whether he has made all his findings public, given the nature of the project, is unlikely. But , if you want to do the research yourself, then take a look at the paraphrase and comments by Hack and Carey: The Copper scroll: 3Q15.
You mean this?: Hack & Carey: The Copper Scroll: 3Q15

As can be seen from the references cited, this has nothing to do with what you say Barfield has found.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
I didn't say he had found the treasures. Barfield's claim is that the site measurements at Qumran fit with the measurements given in the scroll.

Watch and see.
Of course he hasn't found the treasure - if there ever was any. I was referring to your claim that Barfield's "findings", as you called them, have attracted the attention of the authorities in Israel.

Is that it, then? That some measurements at Qumran itself correspond with some dimensions given in the scroll?
 
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Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Of course he hasn'lt found the treasure - if there ever was any. I was referring to your claim that Barfield's "findings", as you called them, have attracted the attention of the authorities in Israel.

Is that it, then? That some measurements at Qumran itself correspond with some dimensions given in the scroll?

Well, to convince authorities to excavate for buried treasures, you have to do more than match measurements on the ground with measurements on paper. The next step for Barfield was to visit the site with equipment that could locate non-ferrous metals deep underground. They did this at one location, and had very positive readings from the equipment. Does this mean that they will be allowed to dig? No. As I understand, this was the point at which the project was placed on pause by the Israeli authorities.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Well, to convince authorities to excavate for buried treasures, you have to do more than match measurements on the ground with measurements on paper. The next step for Barfield was to visit the site with equipment that could locate non-ferrous metals deep underground. They did this at one location, and had very positive readings from the equipment. Does this mean that they will be allowed to dig? No. As I understand, this was the point at which the project was placed on pause by the Israeli authorities.
Understandably. The authorities will want to be convinced that there is a real prospect of finding something of interest and they will have to keep in mind the potential disturbance and destruction caused by the digging.

That's where a project based only on YouTube videos, and bypassing professional archaeology, may come to grief.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
...Would the unearthing of these vessels increase the likelihood of a new temple being built? How far have plans for such a building progressed? Can any good come from rebuilding the temple? Is it God's will that the temple should be rebuilt?...

Perhaps it depends on, what is the purpose, why people want to do it. I think it is not necessary, because:

Don't you know that you are a temple of God, and that God's Spirit lives in you?
1 Corinthians 3:16

Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." The Jews therefore said, "Forty-six years was this temple in building, and will you raise it up in three days?" But he spoke of the temple of his body.
John 2:19-21

Jesus and his disciples are the temple of God.

The God who made the world and all things in it, he, being Lord of heaven and earth, doesn't dwell in temples made with hands, neither is he served by men's hands, as though he needed anything, seeing he himself gives to all life and breath, and all things.
Acts 17:24-25
 
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