I cried out to God last night

[PruePhillip]

False dichotomy and argument from personal incredulity.

Mother goose? Why is this "God" any more believable?
You want evidence driven answers? Look to theoretical physics

I don't think it's false dicho', theoretical physics can conjure the Big Bang
and Inflation - and it might even come up with a mechanism like M-theory
to explain what triggered the Big Bang, but ultimately, it had to start from
something outside the system.

 

[darkskies]

either it was created or it created itself.

Why do you assume agency? To "come about" is more appropriate as that is what is known for now.
Edit: Keep in mind, that does not negate the possibility of time being infinite.

 

[PruePhillip]

How so?

Okay, you live your life, wondering why you are here in the first place.
Everything else has a 'reason' for happening, why not you? Kids ask
'why' all the time, and ultimately they hit on the Ultimate Question, why
is all this here in the first place?
Why is there light? Because the sun. Why does the sun shine? Because
of fusion. Why is there fusion? Because of gravity. Why is there gravity?
Because its a property of the universe. Why is there a universe? I know
you would get to that.

Meaning as in the bible can animate your life, You realize how small you
really are. You realize how meaningless everything is considering you are
going to die. You see people live for meaningless things. You are left to
consider you could one day be the same as before you were born. God
gives you hope. And not just hope - God gives peace, joy and purpose.
But that is something that corporate 'proof' can't provide - it's the personal
proof that matters here.

 

[JustGeorge]

Well, I spilt a life-threatening amount of blood by my own hand last month. If Odin wants it, it's his. I know he likes blood and death, so that's fine. I dedicate it to him. Personally, I never was a subscriber to the idea that the Gods need a damn thing from humans to have a connection to us or otherwise. They do what they please, regardless of what we do. They are ineffable. Sometimes they don't leave you alone even if you curse them or don't believe. The reciprocity ethic thing is really a folktale to encourage good behavior between humans. But I'm always a heretic, anyway.

I tend to agree they don't need anything from us. I think they appreciate the gesture, though. Kinda like all the art projects my kids have given me through the years. I don't need any of them. But the act of the gift is dear to me, anyways.

 

[The Hammer]

Sure, that though is stretching my mind - either it was created or it created itself.
Hard to grasp a third way.

Or the gods created something capable of creating itself. Like self replicating nanobots from science fiction.

 

[Valjean]

I started with the belief in God. SOMETHING OUTSIDE THE UNIVERSE HAD TO HAVE
CREATED THE UNIVERSE, so I ascribe that to the God I believe in.
The first Genesis account, stripped of symbolic language, gives a super accurate account
of the creation of this word.

If God be uncreated, why can't the universe, as well?
Genesis? Magic poofing? Earth before Sun? Both before stars? This is a super accurate account?

 

[PruePhillip]

If God be uncreated, why can't the universe, as well?
Genesis? Magic poofing? Earth before Sun? Both before stars? This is a super accurate account?

Genesis 1, stripped of repeats and symbols, with dates for discoveries)
God created the heaven
and the earth

(and we are now on the earth itself)
the earth is dark (2021 evidence earth was a cloud planet like Venus)
and oceanic (ca 2005)
the continents rose (date unknown ?)
life began on land (general agreement 2020)
and then life began in the ocean
and finally man

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I tend to agree they don't need anything from us. I think they appreciate the gesture, though. Kinda like all the art projects my kids have given me through the years. I don't need any of them. But the act of the gift is dear to me, anyways.

I'm not saying they don't appreciate offerings, just that it's not essential to having a relationship with them. Although, what qualifies as an offering is vague. It can be a prayer of gratitude and not necessarily some big ritual with a sacrifice at the end. They are not physical beings.

 

[Valjean]

Okay, you live your life, wondering why you are here in the first place.
Everything else has a 'reason' for happening, why not you? Kids ask
'why' all the time, and ultimately they hit on the Ultimate Question, why
is all this here in the first place?
Why is there light? Because the sun. Why does the sun shine? Because
of fusion. Why is there fusion? Because of gravity. Why is there gravity?
Because its a property of the universe. Why is there a universe? I know
you would get to that.

There is cause and effect in certain physical phenomena, but a metaphysical cause and effect? I don't know....
Meaning? purpose? -- I think these are usually man made concepts.

Meaning as in the bible can animate your life, You realize how small you
really are. You realize how meaningless everything is considering you are
going to die. You see people live for meaningless things. You are left to
consider you could one day be the same as before you were born. God
gives you hope. And not just hope - God gives peace, joy and purpose.
But that is something that corporate 'proof' can't provide - it's the personal
proof that matters here.

I understand how God or religion can be therapeutic, but ontologically real -- I'd like some empirical evidence before I accept that.

 

[MonkeyFire]

LOVE doesn’t have to save a being if it is unfaithful, and if you believe you can save yourself. The trick is getting to the gnostics to tell the truth, and the faithful to be passive.

 

[Clara Tea]

Usually I just scream at God and call Him names, but this time I asked for help, so the ball is now in God’s court. God can help me because He is All-Powerful, or He can just leave me

God ignores prayers and allows suffering. Theist myth....loving God.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Mind you, the All-Knowing God already knows what I need help with, so I did not need to put in a prayer request. God already knows I have tried to solve these problems by myself to no avail, so it is not as if I am just sitting around doing nothing.

That is what happens when you put all eggs in one basket. Try to solve your problems yourself without any misconception as we atheist do. We never feel so despondent.

the earth is dark (2021 evidence earth was a cloud planet like Venus)
and oceanic (ca 2005)

We do know something about it. It seems to have happened quite quickly taking the age of Earth as 4.54 ± 0.05 billion years (Wikipedia). Age of moon rocks: 4.46 billion years. Jack Hills Zircon: 4.375 billion years. Seems Earth was never that watery.
7 Oldest Rocks Ever Discovered | Oldest.org
Asteroids contain water and ice. It is not that whatever travels through space will not have water. After all Earth too is equivalent to a big asteroid traveling through space. And the mass of water is not very significant wrt the mass of Earth, which is basically an Iron/Silicate ball.
Asteroidal water
It (Earth) is composed mostly of iron (32.1%), oxygen (30.1%), silicon (15.1%), magnesium (13.9%) - elements with a double-digit percentage. That is 91% of the total mass.
Earth

 

[Valjean]

LOVE doesn’t have to save a being if it is unfaithful, and if you believe you can save yourself. The trick is getting to the gnostics to tell the truth, and the faithful to be passive.

Save from what?

 

[Trailblazer]

That is what happens when you put all eggs in one basket. Try to solve your problems yourself without any misconception as we atheist do. We never feel so despondent.

Yes, that is one advantage of being an atheist, you never have to expect anything of God.....
That's kind of like being unmarried, one never has to have any expectations of their spouse.

 

[Trailblazer]

Save from what?

Original sin, if you are a Christian.....
Baha'is do not believe in OS, so there is nothing to be saved from, except ourselves.

 

[Trailblazer]

God ignores prayers and allows suffering. Theist myth....loving God.

Are you saying it is a theist myth that God is loving?
It is a theist belief, but I am not sure if it is a myth or not.

 

[Aupmanyav]

It is a theist belief, but I am not sure if it is a myth or not.

If no evidence is available, then it cannot be taken as a fact. You have yourself experienced and described it in this topic.

 

[Trailblazer]

If no evidence is available, then it cannot be taken as a fact. You have yourself experienced and described it in this topic.

It certainly is not a FACT that God is loving, since it cannot ever be proven.
It is only a belief that God is loving.

fact
something that is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists, or about which there is information:

fact

 

[blü 2]

Last night I was at the end of my rope so I cried out to God, or should I say I screamed at Him in abject anger and told Him I need help, so now I will find out if He comes through or not. Usually I just scream at God and call Him names, but this time I asked for help, so the ball is now in God’s court. God can help me because He is All-Powerful, or He can just leave me standing at the side of the road.

Mind you, the All-Knowing God already knows what I need help with, so I did not need to put in a prayer request. God already knows I have tried to solve these problems by myself to no avail, so it is not as if I am just sitting around doing nothing. I have struggled with these issues for what seems like forever but I have come to a dead end and I know not what to do. This is when God is supposed to step in and help me if He is worth His salt.

What can I say but, Good Luck!

 

[blü 2]

What have you done for God?

When I was a kid I put my coin in the collection plate with great integrity.

Or do you mean, What have you done, for God's sake?