I cried out to God last night

[Unveiled Artist]

They have to be relevant if you want to think through why you exist.
The other option is that the universe has no end or beginning - that
essentially dodges the question and in any case is less likely to be
true, as Cosmology suggests.

If the question of existence is irrelevant (unless it adds meaning to one's life beyond theology and philosophy), I'd say pondering about which person's existence story makes more sense than someone else's story of existence would be unproductive.

Why would it matter?
Why can't we just say we don't know?

 

[PruePhillip]

If the question of existence is irrelevant (unless it adds meaning to one's life beyond theology and philosophy), I'd say pondering about which person's existence story makes more sense than someone else's story of existence would be unproductive.

Why would it matter?
Why can't we just say we don't know?

The militant atheist says we ought to know when he/she thinks their
answer will justify their position - and dismiss the argument if the
deep analysis is not going to help them.
I think we do know one thing: the universe cannot create itself when
it didn't exist. And we know there is a reason for everything in nature.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The militant atheist says we ought to know when he/she thinks their
answer will justify their position - and dismiss the argument if the
deep analysis is not going to help them.

I've only heard of militant atheists (well ted talks etc) who believe in big bang theory and evolution and things like that. This comment sounds like their position is somewhat of a threat to the view there should be a cause of existence outside the nature of physics.

I think we do know one thing: the universe cannot create itself when it didn't exist. And we know there is a reason for everything in nature.

I'd say the closest I come is it always existed in one form or another. Energy doesn't create itself and it doesn't disappear.

Saying "we know there is a reason" is a generalization and doesn't take into account our values and perspectives aren't a default and other people's views are an opposition or agreement to that default. "We don't know" is a very humble answer. Knowing or assuming we know is mainly a belief but definitely not a fact.

Even if there were a cause to the universe, my confusion is out of call causes supernatural and not, how did you come up with god?

 

[Trailblazer]

I'd really love to see those clearly,

Say tuned to this station....
As everyone on RF know TB is not short on words or secretive.
TB has been short on time though which is why the laundry list has not yet been forthcoming.

 

[Trailblazer]

Let's have a little sympathy, here.
She probably lives in the US, so doesn't have the social services that might help her elsewhere in the world.

I do not need any social services because I have worked every day of my life, since I got my first college degree in 1974.
I also invested all my money wisely and hardly spent any money, so I am very well off financially and set for life. If money could buy happiness I would be very very happy.

 

[Trailblazer]

I was actually standing up for @Trailblazer

Thanks, I need all the help I can get emotionally, not financially.

 

[viole]

You have two choices - either God made the universe or the universe
made itself, before it existed, and for no reason whatsoever. I call the
latter idea the Mother Goose Theory.

Nope. The first is Mother Goose theory. She created the universe.
The idea that the Universe made itself, before it existed, and for no reason whatsoever, is your God theory.

Don't you see it? It is quite obvious.

Ciao

- viole

 

[PruePhillip]

Nope. The first is Mother Goose theory. She created the universe.
The idea that the Universe made itself, before it existed, and for no reason whatsoever, is your God theory.

Don't you see it? It is quite obvious.

Ciao

- viole

No I can't see it. Something outside of the universe had to have created the universe.
There was no time, no matter, no energy, no physical laws and not even numbers
before the universe burst into existence.
And it begs the question, WHY?
Judaeo Christianity holds that God created the universe and the earth. Seven days of
Genesis is quite symbolic, but the stages of creation are spot on, scientifically accurate
in fact.

 

[PruePhillip]

I've only heard of militant atheists (well ted talks etc) who believe in big bang theory and evolution and things like that. This comment sounds like their position is somewhat of a threat to the view there should be a cause of existence outside the nature of physics.



I'd say the closest I come is it always existed in one form or another. Energy doesn't create itself and it doesn't disappear.

Saying "we know there is a reason" is a generalization and doesn't take into account our values and perspectives aren't a default and other people's views are an opposition or agreement to that default. "We don't know" is a very humble answer. Knowing or assuming we know is mainly a belief but definitely not a fact.

Even if there were a cause to the universe, my confusion is out of call causes supernatural and not, how did you come up with god?

I started with the belief in God. SOMETHING OUTSIDE THE UNIVERSE HAD TO HAVE
CREATED THE UNIVERSE, so I ascribe that to the God I believe in.
The first Genesis account, stripped of symbolic language, gives a super accurate account
of the creation of this word.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I started with the belief in God. SOMETHING OUTSIDE THE UNIVERSE HAD TO HAVE
CREATED THE UNIVERSE, so I ascribe that to the God I believe in.
The first Genesis account, stripped of symbolic language, gives a super accurate account
of the creation of this word.

"had to have" or "everyone knows..." doesn't mean there "is" a creator and doesn't mean that everyone actually does know. It's an intelligent guess but it's still an uncertainty not fact (unless we know everything and believe everything we read). If you said the creator "did" create the universe, than that would make the subject much more relevant to people as a whole. Since beliefs aren't always based on fact, it is only relevant to those who want to take it so. Not holding a belief there must be a creator to our existence holds no consequences. However, if it were a fact that a creator exist (assuming the abrahamic one) than yeah, not serving him would have consequences.

My question is why is it relevant to know the cause of our existence?
How does that better our lives spiritually, mentally, and physically?

 

[PruePhillip]

"had to have" or "everyone knows..." doesn't mean there "is" a creator and doesn't mean that everyone actually does know. It's an intelligent guess but it's still an uncertainty not fact (unless we know everything and believe everything we read). If you said the creator "did" create the universe, than that would make the subject much more relevant to people as a whole. Since beliefs aren't always based on fact, it is only relevant to those who want to take it so. Not holding a belief there must be a creator to our existence holds no consequences. However, if it were a fact that a creator exist (assuming the abrahamic one) than yeah, not serving him would have consequences.

My question is why is it relevant to know the cause of our existence?
How does that better our lives spiritually, mentally, and physically?

It gives meaning to life, and hope after this life.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It gives meaning to life, and hope after this life.

How so?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

A gift for a gift, you have to do for the Gods, for them to do for you.

Well, I spilt a life-threatening amount of blood by my own hand last month. If Odin wants it, it's his. I know he likes blood and death, so that's fine. I dedicate it to him. Personally, I never was a subscriber to the idea that the Gods need a damn thing from humans to have a connection to us or otherwise. They do what they please, regardless of what we do. They are ineffable. Sometimes they don't leave you alone even if you curse them or don't believe. The reciprocity ethic thing is really a folktale to encourage good behavior between humans. But I'm always a heretic, anyway.

 

[Valjean]

You have two choices - either God made the universe or the universe
made itself, before it existed, and for no reason whatsoever. I call the
latter idea the Mother Goose Theory.

False dichotomy and argument from personal incredulity.

Mother goose? Why is this "God" any more believable?
You want evidence driven answers? Look to theoretical physics

 

[The Hammer]

Well, I spilt a life-threatening amount of blood by my own hand last month. If Odin wants it, it's his. I know he likes blood and death, so that's fine. I dedicate it to him. Personally, I never was a subscriber to the idea that the Gods need a damn thing from humans to have a connection to us or otherwise. They do what they please, regardless of what we do. They are ineffable. Sometimes they don't leave you alone even if you curse them or don't believe. The reciprocity ethic thing is really a folktale to encourage good behavior between humans. But I'm always a heretic, anyway.

There are tales of reciprocity in all Indo-european traditions. I'll keep honoring my Ancestors in the way that my Ancestors honored theirs, that sounds like respect to me. And as the Gods are larger than life Ancestors of Man, I find it appropriate. *Shrug* "Reciprocity is the basis of relationships, without which we cannot exist as a society." -ADF

I too have used blood as a dedication to Odin.

 

[The Hammer]

You have two choices - either God made the universe or the universe
made itself, before it existed, and for no reason whatsoever. I call the
latter idea the Mother Goose Theory.

Why can't their be a 3rd option. Why the black and white, either/or mentality? Seems unhealthy.

 

[darkskies]

There was no time, no matter, no energy, no physical laws and not even numbers
before the universe burst into existence.

...no time...before...

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

There are tales of reciprocity in all Indo-european traditions. I'll keep honoring my Ancestors in the way that my Ancestors honored theirs, that sounds like respect to me. And as the Gods are larger than life Ancestors of Man, I find it appropriate. *Shrug* "Reciprocity is the basis of relationships, without which we cannot exist as a society." -ADF

I too have used blood as a dedication to Odin.

I'm not saying you're wrong. Your approach is valid, but mine isn't the same or at least in the same literal way.

 

[PruePhillip]

...no time...before...

I understand what you are saying. We can't draw too much from the 'before time'
because we simply have no idea what time even is. But time is a product of the
universe - and this universe came into being, so too did time.

 

[PruePhillip]

Why can't their be a 3rd option. Why the black and white, either/or mentality? Seems unhealthy.

Sure, that though is stretching my mind - either it was created or it created itself.
Hard to grasp a third way.