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Gina Carano discussing Nazis, what am I missing here?

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Seems to me she’s asking us to try to learn from history, no?
I think part of the problem is the calling out of government in the analogy, not because (as others have said) it is perhaps false, but because considering the entire analogy, it seems to partially imply the idea that the U.S. government may be trying to get people to hate one another over their political views - so that we might start persecuting those of particular political views without consequence or as part of "normalcy."

And, her being of the "conservative" persuasion apparently (I gathered this from the posts in this topic, and then looked it up to verify, because honestly I couldn't have cared before this moment), it seems she may be trying to say that conservatism is the political set of views being persecuted. This is just blowing things out of the water ridiculously given recent events and the reason for there being backlash against particularly staunch conservatives. Because theirs are the views that led to some of our citizens trying to haphazardly overthrow the government.

She might be talking about any political views, I suppose... but I doubt it.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Interesting. I didn't read the tweet as trivializing anything - more as a caution to where much of today's extremism could lead us.

So I can ask this of everyone - if we do want to provide a cautionary tale, why not use a horrific example?
Whilst I can certainly understand the Holocaust or the Nazi treatment of Jews in general as being the go to example of recognising prejudice in ourselves. It’s a little tacky to compare your feelings being hurt to one of the most horrific travesties in recent history.

I get that the current American political climate is quite dramatic, but casually using the Holocaust like this. I don’t know, it creates in me a gut reaction of, “wow, tacky much?”

But that’s just my perception. It seems there is a lot more under the surface. As pointed out by the poster just above me. But as I’m not American such context is lost on me.
 
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Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
TV actress Gina Carano is in hot water for posting this:



Apparently people viewed this as outrageous hate speech (or something), and Lucasfilm fired her.

I guess this is me being my privileged, clueless self, but why is this a bad idea? Seems to me she’s asking us to try to learn from history, no? To see where things are heading and maybe make a course correction?

Well, I don't know, but I guess if they let stuff like this go, then the next thing you know, people might start comparing US politicians to Hitler. Oh wait...
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
TV actress Gina Carano is in hot water for posting this:



Apparently people viewed this as outrageous hate speech (or something), and Lucasfilm fired her.

I guess this is me being my privileged, clueless self, but why is this a bad idea? Seems to me she’s asking us to try to learn from history, no? To see where things are heading and maybe make a course correction?
Good question... it certainly does seem like thought control to fire someone for this statement.
 
TV actress Gina Carano is in hot water for posting this:



Apparently people viewed this as outrageous hate speech (or something), and Lucasfilm fired her.

I guess this is me being my privileged, clueless self, but why is this a bad idea? Seems to me she’s asking us to try to learn from history, no? To see where things are heading and maybe make a course correction?
The only bad thing I can see here is that Lucasfilm is getting away with firing her. They should have to move to another country or be shut down for such nonsensical retaliation. But nothing will be done because the constitution is now considered evil.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
She said Republicans were being persecuted the way Jews were by the Nazis,

You're almost certainly correct. But the tweet - by itself - is ambiguous. If spoken by a left-leaning person, it could well have been referring to the aggressors on Jan 6.

While I think your assessment of Carano's intentions is correct, and if so, I disagree with her, this feels like an assault on free speech.
 
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ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
You're almost certainly correct. But the tweet - by itself - is ambiguous.
No, it really isn't. The tweet concludes "How is that (i.e the treatment of Jewish people in Nazi Germany) any different to hating people because of their political views?"

It is an explicit attempt to draw a comparison between her treatment as a Conservative and the suffering of Jews under Nazi Germany.

If spoken by a left-leaning person, it could well have been referring to the aggressors on Jan 6.
If you can find anybody on the left who compares January 6th to the holocaust, I will call them stupid too.

While I think your assessment of Carano's intentions is correct, and if so, I disagree with her, this feels like an assault on free speech.
Her speech isn't being curtailed. The company she worked for on a particular show terminated her contract because she made a profoundly stupid statement that trivialized the holocaust, and that is a bad look for the company (especially a company like Disney who have a history with antisemitism). This kind of thing is fairly normal.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
It is an explicit attempt to draw a comparison between her treatment as a Conservative and the suffering of Jews under Nazi Germany.

Isn't it the case that you can make this claim ONLY if you have knowledge outside of the tweet itself?

If you can find anybody on the left who compares January 6th to the holocaust, I will call them stupid too.

Sometimes slippery slope arguments are useful.

Her speech isn't being curtailed. The company she worked for on a particular show terminated her contract because she made a profoundly stupid statement that trivialized the holocaust, and that is a bad look for the company (especially a company like Disney who have a history with antisemitism). This kind of thing is fairly normal.

The twitasphere is calling for curtailment. I'm just trying to point out how dangerous calls to limit speech are, even what we might all agree is wrong-headed speech.
 
Except perhaps she has not been fired?

"Gina Carano is not currently employed by Lucasfilm and there are no plans for her to be in the future." - Lucasfilm.
Okay, maybe there is a difference, or maybe they are just trying to pose it in a way that gets them kudos from the whoevers.
 

Aštra’el

Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth
I think she probably got fired for trivializing the atrocities Jews faced at the hands of Nazis by comparing them to imagined persecution based on her victim complex
"how is that different" is a statement of right wing extremism.
She said Republicans were being persecuted the way Jews were by the Nazis,
Does it seem a fair comparison, the treatment of Republicans in the US today and the treatment of Jews in Nazi Germany? That really the direction of travel?
It’s a trivialising of the atrocities committed in Nazi Germany. I understand using hyperbole to prove a point, but maybe don’t use a great atrocity
It’s a little tacky to compare your feelings being hurt to one of the most horrific travesties in recent history.
she made a profoundly stupid statement that trivialized the holocaust.

Pedro Pascal he/him, main star of “The Mandalorian”, tweeted on June 20, 2018:

90C21DEE-2413-4EA1-9C22-603C39A75848.jpeg
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Pedro Pascal he/him, main star of “The Mandalorian”, tweeted on June 20, 2018:

View attachment 47780
At least that’s a closer comparison than having your feelings hurt.

As an aside I encountered a commentator allegedly from Germany. Apparently miss Gina’s comments count as Holocaust denial under their law.
If any RFer from Germany would weigh in on that, I would be grateful. I’ve no doubt their law would be extremely strict about that kind of thing. But I couldn’t verify one way or the other.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Isn't it the case that you can make this claim ONLY if you have knowledge outside of the tweet itself?
Yes. And?

Sometimes slippery slope arguments are useful.
It's not a slippery slope argument. It makes a direct comparison between the two.

The twitasphere is calling for curtailment.
And I'm sure there are many not calling for one. Also, Twitter can ban whoever they want, too.

I'm just trying to point out how dangerous calls to limit speech are, even what we might all agree is wrong-headed speech.
You haven't really done that, though. You've yet to point out any significant, negative consequence to society for this. Also, freedom of speech does not mean freedom to use whatever private platform you want. Nor does it protect you from the consequences of speech which can reasonably be considered harmful to the representation of your employers.
 
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icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
You haven't really done that, though. You've yet to point out any significant, negative consequence to society for this. Also, freedom of speech does not mean freedom to use whatever private platform you want. Nor does it protect you from the consequences of speech which can reasonably be considered harmful to the representation of your employers.

I'm of the opinion that at this point. major social media platforms have become "the commons". The proverbial street corner from which anyone can exercise their right to speech (and free listening BTW). So in general I agree that there is no guarantee of a platform, but I think Big SM is an exception to that.

As for negative consequences, I'm not sure I'm understanding you here. Are you saying that I need to demonstrate bad consequences stemming from censorship?
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
TV actress Gina Carano is in hot water for posting this:



Apparently people viewed this as outrageous hate speech (or something), and Lucasfilm fired her.

I guess this is me being my privileged, clueless self, but why is this a bad idea? Seems to me she’s asking us to try to learn from history, no? To see where things are heading and maybe make a course correction?

She said republicans are treated in comparable ways to jews in nazi germany.

This is beyond ridiculous and completely trivializes what really went on in Nazi Germany. It also demonizes her political opponents as if they were nazi's.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Good question... it certainly does seem like thought control to fire someone for this statement.

A question I have here is... how was she fired?

The Mandalorian, the show in question, is already done. I don't know if new seasons were planned, but it's not like they were filming at the moment.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
She said republicans are treated in comparable ways to jews in nazi germany.

This is beyond ridiculous and completely trivializes what really went on in Nazi Germany. It also demonizes her political opponents as if they were nazi's.

The demonization of political opponents as Nazis (or sometimes as Communists, depending on who's doing the demonizing) is a common trope in US politics. I never really liked this tactic myself, regardless of which side does it. A lot of the problem also stems from the fact that very few Americans have a strong grasp of history, making it all the more easy for people to say things like this.

A lot of people just say dumb, ignorant things. They may not necessarily mean anything by it, though. That's where it gets just as ridiculous, when all of society makes a huge deal over some dumb thing that someone says. That reaction seems to do more harm than good. Would it be so bad to just ignore it and let it go? Is there some insidious agenda at work? Is Carano evil and possibly a Nazi herself for saying such a thing?
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
The demonization of political opponents as Nazis (or sometimes as Communists, depending on who's doing the demonizing) is a common trope in US politics. I never really liked this tactic myself, regardless of which side does it. A lot of the problem also stems from the fact that very few Americans have a strong grasp of history, making it all the more easy for people to say things like this.

A lot of people just say dumb, ignorant things. They may not necessarily mean anything by it, though. That's where it gets just as ridiculous, when all of society makes a huge deal over some dumb thing that someone says. That reaction seems to do more harm than good. Would it be so bad to just ignore it and let it go? Is there some insidious agenda at work? Is Carano evil and possibly a Nazi herself for saying such a thing?

Nobody cares if some no-name, unknown redneck spouts things 100x worse.

The problem occurs when people of fame do it on a platform where they reach millions of people.
Sure, perhaps she is just an uneducated dumb woman who doesn't know better.

That doesn't change the fact that she is a famous person with a reach of millions on a public platform like social media.
The fact is that people of fame with a big following have a big responsibility in terms of being role-models. And what they say (or don't say) reflects back on the circles they move in.

Famous people with a great following on the internet, have big power. And with power comes responsibility. Maybe she is dumb and ignorant. To me, that's not an excuse.
Being a person of fame with a voice that reaches millions, she has a responsibility to educate herself and to be careful what she does and doesn't say on such a platform.

Sure, she is free to say whatever she wants (within certain boundaries because free speech is off course not absolute).
Others are also free to judge her for it. And she must realize that as a public figure, what she does and doesn't say on social media can and WILL have consequences and potential backlash.

If you are famous and reach millions with your platform, then be careful what you post. When in doubt, best to simply not post anything at all.

It comes with the job. It's the price you pay for being famous and gathering "followers" on a platform like twitter.

If she can't handle that, then she should either quit social media or quit being famous.
Nobody is going to care about her statements when she works at McDonalds flipping burgers with 23 followers on her twitter account.
 
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