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Bad News for Uber: Good News for Their Drivers

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The government has said nothing. A private civil court case decided the issue at the highest possible level. Both sides must have spent millions to take it so far.
The government could have changed the law at any time, but chose not to get involved.
You don’t think civil courts are a part of government? You think this is only a UK issue? Are you unaware of what other countries AND their governments are doing?
 

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
True, there are some that like it. That is always the argument these businesses are keen to make.

But it is a self-serving argument: this number is dwarfed by those for whom the conditions are oppressive. As that Dutch CEO I mentioned points out, he has no trouble getting people to work in his organisation on the basis of being employees with a salary, statutory holidays, sick pay etc. He does not find them clamouring to be self-employed instead.

Ask @Twilight Hue what he thinks.
Very short sighted. These laws impact barbers, stylists, tech employees, and may others who avail do prefer to be independent.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
An interesting snippet on the news from the ruling...

The court considered several elements in its judgement:

  • Uber set the fare which meant that they dictated how much drivers could earn
  • Uber set the contract terms and drivers had no say in them
  • Request for rides is constrained by Uber who can penalise drivers if they reject too many rides
  • Uber monitors a driver's service through the star rating and has the capacity to terminate the relationship if after repeated warnings this does not improve

A real contractor would not have these type of issues.

I hope this translates to other gig jobs including the one I'm signed on with.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Very short sighted. These laws impact barbers, stylists, tech employees, and may others who avail do prefer to be independent.
You seem to have misunderstood. No law has been passed here. This is a court judgement, relating to the contract between Über and its drivers.

There is no reason why it would prevent other contracts, in other businesses, from classing themselves as self-employed, provided they are appropriately drawn up. However, if these contracts were to be as restricting and proscriptive as the Über one, then they would be open to a court challenge to reclass the workers as employees.

So it is now up to business owners: either make their workers employees, or make sure the contracts give the workers enough autonomy and flexibility that they can really be said to be self-employed.
 
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Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
You don’t think civil courts are a part of government? You think this is only a UK issue? Are you unaware of what other countries AND their governments are doing?

In the UK the judges and courts are independent they are not dependent on political patronage. they have no party affiliations, nor can they. The supreme court adjudicates on both civil and criminal law.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
You don’t think civil courts are a part of government? You think this is only a UK issue? Are you unaware of what other countries AND their governments are doing?
What other countries may be doing has not, up to now, been the subject of this thread. It has been about a landmark court judgement in the UK.

You are welcome to expand the subject, if you like, by telling us what you say these other countries are doing - if you provide appropriate links to support your contention.
 

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
Very short sighted. These laws impact barbers, stylists, tech employees, and may others who avail do prefer to be independent.
Are these barbers you mention dependent on a specific online platform that acts as a middleman for their business?
 

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity

Martin

Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
Good news, though there are still far too many people in insecure employment. Zero-hours contracts, forced self-emploment, etc. All these people have bills to pay, and many have families to support. They need a secure income, and reasonable employment conditions.
 

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
Good news, though there are still far too many people in insecure employment. Zero-hours contracts, forced self-emploment, etc. All these people have bills to pay, and many have families to support. They need a secure income, and reasonable employment conditions.
Yea, Uber drivers are far from the only "independent contractors" suffering from these miserable conditions. Delivery services are another industry where people are being frequently worked to the bone for a pittance.
 

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Then in what capacity is their situation equivalent to Uber drivers?
There are barbers and Uber drivers who would both like to be independent contractors, but the government interferes with that desire.
 

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
There are barbers and Uber drivers who would both like to be independent contractors, but the government interferes with that desire.
Nothing is stopping Uber from turning its sham contracts into a genuine relationship of mutual independence. But if they're signing contracts with independent entrepreneurs, the law ought to make sure that they are actual independent contracts, instead of employment contracts disguised by legalese for the benefit of one party.
 

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Nothing is stopping Uber from turning its sham contracts into a genuine relationship of mutual independence. But if they're signing contracts with independent entrepreneurs, the law ought to make sure that they are actual independent contracts, instead of employment contracts disguised by legalese for the benefit of one party.
The law already had standards for determining whether someone was an independent contractor. Big government in California decided to throw out that test and make it nearly impossible to qualify as an IC.
 
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