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For Christians ... a question I've had for a long time

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
We are told in John 1:1 the Word was both "with the God" and "was God."
We are instructed it was the Word which changed to become flesh, John 1:14. What changed was not the Word "was God," John 1:10, but how the Word was "with the God" is how He changed, John 1:2-3, John 1:14. John 1:10-11, "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not." So He could truely say in John 20:17, "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." He was both God and not God being the one with the God, John 1:2. He changed how He was with God by becoming flesh, John 1:14.
Yes, in English KJV we are told " was God "
The same Greek grammar rule applies at both John 1:1 and at Acts of the Apostles 28: 6 B
Notice KJV inserted the letter 'a' at Acts but omits the letter 'a' at John.
Even the definition of the word ' with ' implies another person.
We are told at John 1 that Jesus was ' in the beginning '
Psalms 90:2 informs that God is from everlasting ( meaning No beginning for God )
So, only God was ' before ' the beginning.
Pre-human heavenly Jesus was ' in ' the beginning, but Not ' before' the beginning as his God was ' before' the beginning of anything.
This is why Revelation 3:14 B can say that pre-human Jesus was the beginning of the creation by God.
Even the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him - Revelation 3:12
 

37818

Active Member
1 John 5:1 in the Greek Interlinear says that everyone believing that Jesus is the Christ out of God..... everyone loving the one having generated he is loving the one having been generated out of him.
Please notice: 'out of God' ' generated out of him (God) '
So, 1st John is saying that everyone who believes Jesus is the 'Christ' ( it does Not say who believes Jesus is God; there is No Scripture says God is the Christ ).
and everyone who loves the one who caused (generated) to be born loves him (Jesus) who has been born from that one (from God)

Galatians 3:17-20 is speaking about the promise given to father Abraham at Genesis 22:17-18
As verse 20 lets us know when only one person is involved there is No Mediator. ( No Jesus at that time but God to Abraham )
The promise of Genesis 2:17 to Abraham was from God with No go between ( no mediator there )
The Mosaic Law covenant was added to the Abrahamic covenant. ( Moses was the Mediator - Galatians 3:21-23 )
The temporary Mosaic Law lead us to Christ - Galatians 3:24; John 1:17
So, by Christ the Law was subtracted or taken away, but the Abrahamic covenant stands.
Please see Galatians 3:8-13
". . . And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: . . ."

If you are unable to understand that Christ is God too, you stated your reasons. It is my understanding that Ephesians 5:5 can be understood that it says "the Christ and God." Meaning Christ to be God too.
 

37818

Active Member
Yes, in English KJV we are told " was God "
The same Greek grammar rule applies at both John 1:1 and at Acts of the Apostles 28: 6 B
Notice KJV inserted the letter 'a' at Acts but omits the letter 'a' at John.
Even the definition of the word ' with ' implies another person.
We are told at John 1 that Jesus was ' in the beginning '
Psalms 90:2 informs that God is from everlasting ( meaning No beginning for God )
So, only God was ' before ' the beginning.
Pre-human heavenly Jesus was ' in ' the beginning, but Not ' before' the beginning as his God was ' before' the beginning of anything.
This is why Revelation 3:14 B can say that pre-human Jesus was the beginning of the creation by God.
Even the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him - Revelation 3:12
Well the LORD God appeared to Abraham, Genesis 12:7, "And the LORD appeared unto Abram, . . ." And again, Genesis 17:1, ". . . the LORD appeared to Abram, . . ." Jesus claimed, John 8:56, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad." And we are told in John 1:18, "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." John 14:6.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
". . ....If you are unable to understand that Christ is God too, you stated your reasons. It is my understanding that Ephesians 5:5 can be understood that it says "the Christ and God." Meaning Christ to be God too.

I remember in high school English the teacher when stressing the word "AND" is a conjunction word.
So, Ephesians 5:5 saying in the kingdom of the Christ 'AND' of God is speaking about two, and not one.
At 1 Corinthians 11:3 who is the head of Christ but God. God is head over Jesus.
We can't know the mind of God according to 1 Corinthians 2:16.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I understand that this is outside your beliefs. So you cannot understand that a body is a body and not a spirit (Luke 24:39).
I do understand what a physical body is, I just do not believe that Jesus was raised in a physical body that walked around town, as it says in the gospel stories. IF Jesus was seen, it was His spiritual body that was seen.
So what is translated correctly is the body raised from the dead being a "spiritual body." The body being made alive by God's Spirit and no longer by the blood in the flesh.
So Paul explained, "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." Per 1 Corinthians 15:50.
Jesus' physical body is flesh and bone less the blood, so longer flesh and blood.

A spiritual body not a spirit.
What Paul wrote is right on the money. I picked the most pertinent verses from the chapter because that helps to see it clearer. Our dying bodies will be transformed into bodies that will never die. Our transformed bodies will be spiritual bodies. Paul says that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God and that means they cannot exist in heaven. When Paul says these dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever, he is referring to the spiritual world (heaven), which will last forever.

1 Corinthians 15:35-58 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.


You said: "Jesus' physical body is flesh and bone less the blood, so longer flesh and blood."

But Paul said: "our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever."
In other words these dying bodies cannot live forever and go to heaven (the Kingdom of God).

You said: "A spiritual body not a spirit."

I agree that Jesus had what we will all have after we die, a spiritual body, not a spirit. that means the body will take on some kind of form.

“The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157

“The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.” Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
In case you are interested I have posted my interpretation of many of the verses in 1 Corinthians 15 to other Christians on this forum.

1 Corinthians 15:12-26
#291 Trailblazer

1 Corinthians 15:35-58
#515 Trailblazer
 

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
Talking.
Thinking.

Humans.

I am a human. Maybe you think you are not a human.

Why we argue.

Science Phi theism human expressed is just thinking first.
Asks questions who was Jesus.

After a lot of words and numbers the book summation quotes never give God O earth mass a name again.

Book says in summation no man is God.

Book statement agsinst sophism theism for occult satanic science. A contradiction.

For rational humans had to argue on behalf of human survival.

Who was Jesus asks science.

The book said an image of a man human in the clouds.

Jesus in the heavens clouds with his father.

A father in human life is sexual title.

So a sexual father is a human.

We live inside heavenly body as humans.

A cloud image is exactly stated a cloud image.

Ask how a ground living bio life got its image in clouds answer Bible stated.

Satanic science occult caused.

God pressure body stone changed in phi O a human thinking theory was applied in machines Phi designed to react a machine constant.

Machine built to force change body God mass O owner of the origin s circular body.

The written data study of man human innocent. Was not his man occult science brother. Both man adults.

Innocent man said guilty man scientist sacrificed his life. Data described numbers to a letter. Applied a study gave its title by word JESUS.

A study about why human life was sacrificed aligned to the state phenomena causes.

Image. Recording. Proved with hearing recorded voice speaking that when life is notified bio attack you hear the theist voice human science machine designer speaking.

A man. Our human adult father self speaking due to machine only designed by his human thinking controlled by his thinking changed the atmospheric body.

Adult young adult man theist designer.

Had a baby life first.
Future thinking is a returned human baby life.

Says time shifting design.

Natural life becomes an old man.

Human life babies die as babies.
Many humans don't grow old.

Because science introduced time shifting UFO mass release.

Humans own spirit records lived living life returned recordings.

Babies grow into by image young adults
Old humans died old return image young adult also.

Spiritual human experience.

Living proof a human scientist did it to us.

Question if life came from a place of loving spirit. We humans live as self proof we did and it owns no scientific descriptive ownership.

The only argument occult science uses is a claim we all use. I know. Just words which are not reactive string theories.

Occult science today claims it invented life from a machine reaction.

Therefore no one should wonder why life human was and is sacrificed as we own human evidence machines caused it.

Yeah, this is not an improvement. It's completely indecipherable.
 

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
That’s your choice, but you will have to adjust your standards of evidence if you want evidence. I mean there is evidence but you’d have to be willing to accept the evidence that God has provided because nobody can make an omnipotent God do anything he does not want to do.

What would be evidence that God exists?

No. Messengers of God are not evidence for God, since you have no way of verifying their claims. Any idiot can claim to be the messenger of some imaginary deity. If someone claims to be the messenger of Thor, would you consider this to be evidence that Thor is real? Of course not.

The claims of the different religions are mutually exclusive because God sends Messengers in every age and they reveal a different message and different social teachings and laws, according to the needs of the times. As such, there is no reason to expect that the claims of the various religions would be the same. However, the spiritual teachings of all the religions are essentially the same even though they are stated differently in different ages order to accommodate the kind of people they were addressed to.

Yeah, and they all boil down to "Don't be a jerk." We hardly need a God to tell us that.

And how is that mutually exclusive? Mutually exclusive means there is more than one option, and they contradict each other.

So, if you are claiming that the messages from different ages are mutually exclusive, then they would need to be contradictory. And yet you've said the spiritual teachings are essentially the same. That's not mutually exclusive.

So either you don't actually know what mutually exclusive means, or you're wrong.

You don't have any actual evidence for which the only possible explanation is God.

What my beliefs are based upon is called Progressive Revelation.


Good for you.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
No. Messengers of God are not evidence for God, since you have no way of verifying their claims. Any idiot can claim to be the messenger of some imaginary deity. If someone claims to be the messenger of Thor, would you consider this to be evidence that Thor is real? Of course not.
Logically speaking, just because we cannot verify their claims, that does not mean they are not Messengers of God. That is just what YOU WANT, to be able to verify their claims, but an omnipotent God who created the heavens and the earth does not give a twit about what you want. God only does what He wants and chooses to do so God does not care if the claims of His Messengers are verifiable.
Yeah, and they all boil down to "Don't be a jerk." We hardly need a God to tell us that.
No, there is a lot more than that written in a revelation from God.
And how is that mutually exclusive? Mutually exclusive means there is more than one option, and they contradict each other.
Where did I say that the religions are mutually exclusive? Religions are only mutually exclusive in the minds of their followers.
So, if you are claiming that the messages from different ages are mutually exclusive, then they would need to be contradictory. And yet you've said the spiritual teachings are essentially the same. That's not mutually exclusive.

So either you don't actually know what mutually exclusive means, or you're wrong.
Sorry but no. I did not say the messages of the religions are mutually exclusive, I only said they are different. Just because the messages are different that does not mean they are mutually exclusive or contradictory. Rather, the messages build upon each other, each former message leading up to and preparing us for the next message. It is kind of like grade school arithmetic prepares us for high school calculus and high school calculus prepares us for an advanced math degree in college.
You don't have any actual evidence for which the only possible explanation is God.
No I don’t have any evidence for which the only possible explanation for you would be God, but I do have evidence for which the only possible explanation for me is God. I hope you understand what I mean.
 

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
Logically speaking, just because we cannot verify their claims, that does not mean they are not Messengers of God. That is just what YOU WANT, to be able to verify their claims, but an omnipotent God who created the heavens and the earth does not give a twit about what you want. God only does what He wants and chooses to do so God does not care if the claims of His Messengers are verifiable.

But if they're not verifiable, we can't actually be sure, and we can't claim it to be absolute fact, can we?

No, there is a lot more than that written in a revelation from God.

Mere details. That doesn't change the fact that there is nothing in the Bible or any other religious text that could not possibly have come from an extra-human source. There's no descriptions of nuclear physics or anything. And whenever anyone says there is, they are just creatively interpreting particular passages.

Where did I say that the religions are mutually exclusive? Religions are only mutually exclusive in the minds of their followers.

In post 282, where you said, "There is a very logical explanation for the fact that the claims of religions are mutually exclusive but it's late now so I don't have time to explain it."

Sorry but no. I did not say the messages of the religions are mutually exclusive, I only said they are different. Just because the messages are different that does not mean they are mutually exclusive or contradictory. Rather, the messages build upon each other, each former message leading up to and preparing us for the next message. It is kind of like grade school arithmetic prepares us for high school calculus and high school calculus prepares us for an advanced math degree in college.

Yeah, you did. You literally said, "There is a very logical explanation for the fact that the claims of religions are mutually exclusive but it's late now so I don't have time to explain it."

If you are now claiming that they aren't, it makes no sense. It's like the guy on trial saying he had a very good reason for murdering his wife, and then trying to say he didn't do it.

No I don’t have any evidence for which the only possible explanation for you would be God, but I do have evidence for which the only possible explanation for me is God. I hope you understand what I mean.

Yes, I understand perfectly what you mean.

You have subjective opinion.

Unfortunately, opinions are not facts, and opinions are worthless when it comes to knowing the truth of the world.
 

soulsurvivor

Active Member
Premium Member
Think about this: Adam could remain a perfectly healthy physical person on Earth forever without ever having to die.
In a nut shell, God's purpose is that Earth be inhabited by people living forever on Earth
People with physical bodies on Earth that are immortal ! I think there my be an overpopulation problem eventually!

But thanks for the information. I had no idea that this was a belief! Is it specific to your denomination or do a substantial portion of Christians believe in this physical resurrection on Earth with bodies that last forever?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
People with physical bodies on Earth that are immortal ! I think there my be an overpopulation problem eventually!
Obviously Christians who believe this never thought this through.
But thanks for the information. I had no idea that this was a belief! Is it specific to your denomination or do a substantial portion of Christians believe in this physical resurrection on Earth with bodies that last forever?
I know Jehovah's Witnesses hold this belief and there might be other Christians that hold it, but most Christians believe they go to heaven after they die although they don't all agree upon what kind of body they will have in heaven.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
But if they're not verifiable, we can't actually be sure, and we can't claim it to be absolute fact, can we?

I never claimed it is absolute fact. It is a fact to me because I know it is true, but it is not actually a fact according to the definition of a fact.

fact: something that is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists, or about which there is information:

fact
Mere details. That doesn't change the fact that there is nothing in the Bible or any other religious text that could not possibly have come from an extra-human source. There's no descriptions of nuclear physics or anything. And whenever anyone says there is, they are just creatively interpreting particular passages.
It is not only possible but known that what is in the Bible was not written by an extra-human source. It was written by men who people believe were inspired by God. No Messengers of God ever wrote their own scriptures, except the Bab and Baha’u’llah.
In post 282, where you said, "There is a very logical explanation for the fact that the claims of religions are mutually exclusive but it's late now so I don't have time to explain it."
That’s right, the claims of the religious followers are mutually exclusive, but the claims are not the same as the religions that were originally revealed by the Messengers, since the followers distort what those Messengers taught over time.
Yeah, you did. You literally said, "There is a very logical explanation for the fact that the claims of religions are mutually exclusive but it's late now so I don't have time to explain it."

If you are now claiming that they aren't, it makes no sense. It's like the guy on trial saying he had a very good reason for murdering his wife, and then trying to say he didn't do it.
I just explained that above. The claims of the religious followers are mutually exclusive, but the claims are not the same as the religions that were originally revealed by the Messengers, since the followers distort what those Messengers taught over time.
Yes, I understand perfectly what you mean.

You have subjective opinion.

Unfortunately, opinions are not facts, and opinions are worthless when it comes to knowing the truth of the world.
There are plenty of facts about the Baha’i Faith that can be proven but everyone will have their own subjective interpretation of those facts. Some people will see these facts as absolute proof that Baha’u’llah was a Messenger of God and the religion is true and other people will blow these facts off as nothing.
 

37818

Active Member
I remember in high school English the teacher when stressing the word "AND" is a conjunction word.
So, Ephesians 5:5 saying in the kingdom of the Christ 'AND' of God is speaking about two, and not one.
At 1 Corinthians 11:3 who is the head of Christ but God. God is head over Jesus.
We can't know the mind of God according to 1 Corinthians 2:16.
I agree, except for a rule in Greek grammar that makes an exception as found in Ephesians 5:5, ". . . του χριστου και θεου." So it has been translated as ". . . of the Christ and God." Meaning Christ being God. Known as the Granville Sharp's Rule.
 

37818

Active Member
I do understand what a physical body is, I just do not believe that Jesus was raised in a physical body that walked around town, as it says in the gospel stories. IF Jesus was seen, it was His spiritual body that was seen.

What Paul wrote is right on the money. I picked the most pertinent verses from the chapter because that helps to see it clearer. Our dying bodies will be transformed into bodies that will never die. Our transformed bodies will be spiritual bodies. Paul says that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God and that means they cannot exist in heaven. When Paul says these dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever, he is referring to the spiritual world (heaven), which will last forever.

1 Corinthians 15:35-58 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.


You said: "Jesus' physical body is flesh and bone less the blood, so longer flesh and blood."

But Paul said: "our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever."
In other words these dying bodies cannot live forever and go to heaven (the Kingdom of God).

You said: "A spiritual body not a spirit."

I agree that Jesus had what we will all have after we die, a spiritual body, not a spirit. that means the body will take on some kind of form.

“The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157

“The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.” Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
In case you are interested I have posted my interpretation of many of the verses in 1 Corinthians 15 to other Christians on this forum.

1 Corinthians 15:12-26
#291 Trailblazer

1 Corinthians 15:35-58
#515 Trailblazer
As I believe, I stated, the translation "physical" body is a mistranslation. I will add, mistranslated by non-Christians, this from my understanding what Christians are to believe. The Greek being translated "physical" is from the Greek word which by itself is translated "life" or "soul." The NIV and NASB as in the KJV translated it as a "natural" body. ψυχικον meaning "natural" from ψυχη meaning "life" or "soul." The soul is not physical. The body is animated by the soul being in the flash by way of the blood, Leviticus 17:11.

You have made it clear how you understand this matter.
 

Nivek001

Member
Why would I conclude that Jesus was physically resurrected? There is no reason for me to believe that.


There is no evidence proving the resurrection didn’t happen, so what reason is there to believe there was no resurrection? So why believe there will be no physical resurrection!


How do you figure you are omnipotent enough to know what is necessary or unnecessary for Jesus or God to do when it comes to physical resurrection?


39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. (Luke 25:39 KJV.). Why would Jesus give that invitation if it’s just the spirit that counts?


Where does it say in John 3:6 that the flesh and spirit are not meant to be


You pointed out that you don’t need knowledge in order to have common sense, so what else can you show that you do have common sense.


You say is that there is no reason for there have a resurrection. Why is there no reason to have a physical resurrection?


HOW does you saying “Decomposed physical bodies do not rise from the grave and get recomposed” prove that there is no resurrected God who wants us to rely on faith in him instead of relying on established evidence for the world to see?


What science has proven there is no physically resurrected God who wants us to rely on faith in him instead of relying on established evidence for the world to see. So how has science established that conclusion?


I believe there is a physical resurrection by taking a leap of faith by learning and seeking for answers from a God who is believed to have taught reliance on faith in him instead of relying on established evidence if he was then and if he has a begotten son who atoned for our sins and overcame physical death for our sakes. The result for me was experiencing a deep sense of comforting assurance unlike I ever had before. I believe that assurance came from God through the Holy Ghost (John 14:26).


So, what is your proof that ALL of those stories regarding a God who wanted us to rely on faith in him instead of relying on established evidence for the world to see are not true?


Trailblazer said:

I could say the same thing about my Baha’i beliefs and many Baha’is say such things about getting assurance in prayer, so where does that leave us if our beliefs are contradictory?


That if there is a third party who wants to know whether my claim is correct or if you claim is correct concerning getting an assurance of truth from either my God or not, there is only one way for that third party to find out.


Trailblazer said:

Fine, if you believe it came from God, I am not going to argue with you. I prefer to get my assurance from actual scriptures because that is more reliable than my own inner experiences which could be imagined or misconstrued.


That may be the case when it comes to you, but when it comes to my beliefs if they are true one can at least act on faith and ask God if what I believe in is true and that third party can come to their own conclusion.



Trailblazer said:


I do not believe that verse means they would surely die physically, I believe it means they would surely die spiritually because they disobeyed God.


My belief is that if Adam and Eve were not banned from the Garden of Eden and eat from the tree of life they would have lived forever in their sins and therefore live forever exiled from returning back to God.


That separation from God would have been due to their sin. I believe we all are subject to that kind of separation God if we are not forgiven of our sins. I believe it’s that kind of separation from God which defines spiritual death. Like I believe physical death is the separation of the spirit from the body I believe spiritual death is our permanent separation from returning to God.


I believe that the fruit from the tree of life is like the physical resurrection. We would physically live forever, but just living forever isn’t the same as having a life which is having an eternal life.


Well at least we share the point that eternal life deals with the quality of life, although that quality of life I believe is intended to be explained in both spirit and in a perfect resurrected body.


Trailblazer posted:

God never created the physical body to live forever. Once the physical body dies, the soul leaves the body and ascends to the spiritual world where it takes on a new form comprised of spiritual elements that exist in the heavenly realm.


Where is it shown that Christ disposed of the physical body in which he appeared resurrected to his apostles?


26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Job 19:26 KJV


11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Romans 8:11 KJV


Trailblazer said:

Where does it say that there were any more jobs ahead?


11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Acts1:11 KJV


28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness : because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.

Romans 9:28 KJV


4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

Acts 9:4-8 KJV


8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil .

1John 3:8 KJV


12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged ever

Revelation 20:12-13 KJV


39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

The Pearl of Great Price; Moses 1:39. (The Pearl of Great Price is an additional volume of scripture from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints)


Where does that scripture say in John 18:36 that there is no physical resurrection in the future from that time? His kingdom was not of this world, so he died and was made alive physically.


22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1Corinthians 15:22 KJV


Adam died physically and so we all die like Adam. Then when we all are made alive in Christ that we all overcome the death that Adam experienced, which is a physical death.


How does it mean that Jesus had nothing more to do after his mortal life when he proclaimed that he finished what he set out to do in his mortal life (John 17:1-5, 11)?


18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

1Peter 3:18-19 KJV


6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

1Peter 4:6 KJV


Jesus would no longer be in this world of mortality, but his disciples would continue on in this world of mortality. He comes to be one with his father and prays that they be one even as he is with his father, which is one in purpose. Always many yet acting as one.


When a person finishes the work assigned fo that person for the day and calls it a day does not mean that the person becomes retired.


Trailblazer said:

Moreover, nowhere in the New Testament does Jesus say He is coming back to earth, so there is no reason why Christians should have ever believed that!


29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:29-39 KJV


Trailblazer said:

I was not implying that God does not want us to rely upon faith. God does want our faith, but there should be some basis for that faith, as God does not expect or want us to just believe anything, since we could end up with false beliefs.


5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

James 1:5-6 KJV


Trailblazer posted John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


So, just like chocolate comes from or is born from from the cocoa and peanut butter comes from or is born from the peanuts. How does that mean there is no reason to make those two great tastes taste great together?


Trailblazer posted:

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.


So, line the peanut makes the butter peanutty; the chocolate profitedh nothing of the peanut to become chocolate; the peanuts give flavor to the peanut butter. How does that mean then that there is no reason for the peanut butter to come together with the chocolate?
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I agree, except for a rule in Greek grammar that makes an exception as found in Ephesians 5:5, ". . . του χριστου και θεου." So it has been translated as ". . . of the Christ and God." Meaning Christ being God. Known as the Granville Sharp's Rule.
I find the word 'and ' is a conjunction word, so, of the Christ ' and ' God shows two instead of one.

Christ is King of God's Kingdom for a thousand years. Jesus does Not hand back the kingdom to himself - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26

I also find the word ' and ' at 1 Corinthians 8:6

At Psalms 110 there are two (2) LORD/Lords mentioned.
KJV uses all Upper-Case letters for LORD (God) where the Tetragrammaton appears.
The other Lord, in some lower-case letters, stands for Jesus - No Tetragrammaton there.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
People with physical bodies on Earth that are immortal ! I think there my be an overpopulation problem eventually!.............
We don't find that ' eternal life ' or ' everlasting life ' has to equate with being immortal.
Adam was never offered immortal life (death-proof life) but everlasting life on Earth ( IF he kept God's Law )
When we read Genesis 1:28 people were only to reproduce until Earth was full, Earth was populated, Not over full, Not over populated.
In other words, God's purpose is that reproduction would stop at some point here on Earth when Earth was considered populated.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
But thanks for the information. I had no idea that this was a belief! Is it specific to your denomination or do a substantial portion of Christians believe in this physical resurrection on Earth with bodies that last forever?

First, Jesus cautioned that there are both genuine 'wheat' Christians and fake 'weed/tares' Christians - Matthew 13:24-30
'Christendom' (so-called Christian) as far as I know doesn't usually teach about a physical resurrection.
I was only taught about a heavenly resurrection, even though I did Not feel worthy to go to heaven and wanted to stay here.
So, I wondered how could the humble meek people inherit the Earth as Jesus promised at Matthew 5:5; Psalms 37:9-11,29.
I liked what Jehovah's Witnesses showed me in the Bible, and to me it made more sense that most people will be here on Earth .
- www.jw.org
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Irrational.

Science history. Chosen.

Chosen by humans as one mind agreement. Yet owned multi same male life agreeing with thoughts

Today two forms scientists. Religious and origin science theists.

Arguing over a human choice.

Warning destroyer human mentality.

Choice to agree or disagree.

Choice.

Science any status not involved in choice.

Choice to think first. Natural presence existed owned no choice.

Teaching consciousness versus lying.

Original theist thought about big bang strings from sun attack conversion of earth mass.

Science state how to convert natural to gain a lower destroyed form.

Science itself always used sun and earth presence in thesis to convert earth mass. Science human chosen.

Science human uses earths products to own science.

Warning use of words to coerce by stories and belief.

Cult control. The group.

Origin human science moment return. Theism convert earth big bang. Not religious themes. Just space converting themes. Origin of science.

Does a human own space emptiness. When nothing existed as absolute nothing.....no.

Does that state exist. Yes.

Science infers reasons to irradiating in space which is not complete nothing.

Infers when a human did not exist.

Animals owning same heavenly body one answer today. When a human never existed animals using same heavens do.
A deceased human the other answer.
No human thesis.

To say nothing of a human. Which in no thinking owns nothing itself as as status nothing. As you aren't thinking about a topic. To be a non human was never nothing itself.

Lying reviewed. True science status.

God O earth scientist said earth always existed for scientific status.

After ice age theism was about God and earth womb. Space and heavens. Proof not original human theist.

Proof not origins of first science space and sun. As a real womb is human mother owned. Cannot use words unless inferred pre existing status

Natural original father human after ice age not the scientist.

Developed male human DNA life thoughts in cooling developing mass gas was theist modern times. Heavens as a body returned me as male status.

Knows mass gas hotter in past. Knew father human lesser DNA body. Reason.

Part of owning awareness to theory.

However infers falsely to ice mass coldest past. As if ice made earth life coldest lesser body. In life form natural.

Heavens not ice mass was hot gases as gas status only cooling. Ice assisted gases to remass to natural past cooling. Heavens returned.

So he lies about what ice meant. In science thesis.

Reason spatial changing irradiating body owning heavens.

Time shift never existed.

Thesis Phi says when God mass present no longer existed in heavens. After conversion. To own science wisdom itself. God already shifted naturally when man self never existed. Was gone.

Status word use totality of reasoning itself.

Mind looked back to where physical human form never existed. To own Phi reasoning.

Thesis time shift.

Fake.

O mass God earth circle not Phi.

Theism science maths. Man human false preacher. False prophet. Self destroyer warning. Egotism.

Talks about natural animal form when you are a natural whole human. One of the false prophets.

False prophet is the false human preaching.
Another false prophet hell in space.

Earth O God hell is volcanic owned by stone seal. Was nowhere else.

Religious idealism science.

Origin science theist big sun bang destroyer copier of earthin attack as God in all themes is human taught attacked by sun blasting earth.

Theism calculation radiation Phi mass to achieve his God removal. When physical God no longer existed

As it always existed first as mass stone.

Reason why the immaculate coldest highest gas spirit evolution burst into flames.

The teaching.

The sun did it. Took away earths heavenly highest spirit form.

Sun therefore already had changed earths highest gas spirit.

The warning. To human self. Don't allow science by human choice to do it again.
 
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