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Jesus' Four Failed Prophecies About Him Returning In The Lifetimes Of His Apostles

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
It's pointless to argue with you as to whether the Bible is inspired by God or not. The endless punishment in hell (the grave) is call "eternal punishment" not "eternal torment". Death is the wages of sin, and anyone who is without Christ does not escape death. Therefore, the punishment is eternal.
Paul refers to Satan as the God of this world because men serve their own desires rather than God. Their God is their own belly.
And that is mostly just your own interpretation. No more valid than that of any other Christian or non-Christian.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
He sent his Holy Spirit to tell us all about it. It's recorded in the Scriptures.

Jesus won't return until the Temple in Jerusalem is rebuilt. Cause it's there where the abomination which makes desolate is set up.
Did God send it or did people just write it into the scriptures?

What reasonable and reliable tests do you have for the scriptures?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
And what about the Pew poll that says that 79% of Christians expect Jesus to literally return to earth?

I wonder if God reads the Pew Polls....?
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Fully 79% of Christians in the U.S. say they believe that Jesus Christ will return to Earth someday.

Christians’ Views on the Return of Christ

Since Jesus said that "few" are on the road to life, then perhaps the "many" who are on the other road represent the 79%? What do you reckon? (Matthew 7:13-14; 21-23)
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LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
Why do you believe that?
You posted the verse. Jesus said that he who would save his life will lose it. And he who would lose his life would save it.

Both lose their lives, but only one saves it. The one who loses it.

Trailblazer said:
John 12:24-26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Here is something most Christians don't know:

Jesus promised no less than FOUR times in the gospels that he would return to earth and his apostles would live to see it, yet he never showed up.

Paul believed fervently that Jesus would return in his lifetime:

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then WE who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord." 1 Thessolonians 4:16-17

Now Paul may have put this idea into the heads of the gospel writers when they started writing the gospels. They had Jesus make these four prophesies that he would return before the apostles died:

“For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. (Matthew 16: 27, 28)

For me, this is the one that cannot be excused away with rationalizations like "Jesus was referring to the future generation", or "Jesus was referring to God's time which could be thousands of years in the future". We have Jesus referring directly to the people listening to him when he made that failed prophecy "some of you standing here will not taste death until you see me return"

...they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. (Matthew 24: 25-34)

“Then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place…
(Mark 13:26-30)

Here in Chap 10 Jesus is giving his apostles instructions on how they should conduct themselves when he sends them out to do God's work

Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. (Matthew 10:23)

Naturally Jesus never showed up. Why? Because we can assume he never said he would return--this was all invention by the gospel writers probably based on Paul's belief Jesus would return and Paul would live to see it. There are five rationalizations Christians have come up with for Jesus' no-show. All are patently ridiculous but you can read them in the link below:

Jesus’ Failed Prophecy About His Return

Jesus was being figurative. Was Christ Mistaken About His Second Coming?

Concerning Jesus, Russell wrote:

“He certainly thought that his second coming would occur in clouds of glory before the death of all the people who were living at that time. There are a great many texts that prove that.”

He then cites Matthew 10:23 and 16:28 as examples (Enger 1961, 592-593).

Russell’s problem (in addition to his basic atheism) was, of course, that he failed to recognize that words may be used in different senses. They may be used literally, or they may be employed figuratively.

When one encounters a passage that speaks of a “coming” of Christ, he must examine the context to determine the correct usage of the term in that particular setting.

Now, what are the facts of this matter?

First, it is quite clear that Christ did prophesy that he would literally come again (Matt. 25:31). His coming was to be: personal (1 Thes.4:16); visible (Acts 1:11); sudden and unexpected (1 Thes. 5:2, 3); glorious (Matt. 25:31); victorious (2 Thes. 1:7-10); and terminal (1 Cor. 15:24).

Now here is a fact of paramount importance: there is not a shred of evidence to indicate that Christ believed his second coming (Heb. 9:28) would occur within the first century.

As a matter of fact, the Son of Man, having emptied himself (Phil. 2:6ff) of the independent exercise of his divine powers by the incarnation, did not know the time of his second coming (Matt. 24:36). Though he knew not the day nor hour of that great event, Christ did hint that there could be a considerable delay before he would come again.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Since Jesus said that "few" are on the road to life, then perhaps the "many" who are on the other road represent the 79%? What do you reckon? (Matthew 7:13-14; 21-23)
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I reckon you are right, but I am sure we not agree on who the "few" are that are on the road to life. ;)
 

Fallen Prophet

Well-Known Member
Here is something most Christians don't know:

Jesus promised no less than FOUR times in the gospels that he would return to earth and his apostles would live to see it, yet he never showed up.

Paul believed fervently that Jesus would return in his lifetime:

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then WE who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord." 1 Thessolonians 4:16-17

Now Paul may have put this idea into the heads of the gospel writers when they started writing the gospels. They had Jesus make these four prophesies that he would return before the apostles died:

“For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. (Matthew 16: 27, 28)

For me, this is the one that cannot be excused away with rationalizations like "Jesus was referring to the future generation", or "Jesus was referring to God's time which could be thousands of years in the future". We have Jesus referring directly to the people listening to him when he made that failed prophecy "some of you standing here will not taste death until you see me return"

...they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. (Matthew 24: 25-34)

“Then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place…
(Mark 13:26-30)

Here in Chap 10 Jesus is giving his apostles instructions on how they should conduct themselves when he sends them out to do God's work

Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. (Matthew 10:23)

Naturally Jesus never showed up. Why? Because we can assume he never said he would return--this was all invention by the gospel writers probably based on Paul's belief Jesus would return and Paul would live to see it. There are five rationalizations Christians have come up with for Jesus' no-show. All are patently ridiculous but you can read them in the link below:

Jesus’ Failed Prophecy About His Return
The two things that come to mind when I read these verses are the concepts of translation and...translation! :) (This is will make more sense later)

First is the translation of the word "generation" in the Bible - because it has been shown to mean a couple of different things depending on context.

For example, the word "generation" is used to describe "history" such as in Genesis when it discusses the "generations of the heavens and the earth" (Genesis 2:4).

It can also refer to an "age" or "dispensation of time" like when God told Noah that he was "righteous in this generation" - that was not a reference to only those of Noah's age but of that specific period of time which spanned multiple "generations" as we interpret it. (Genesis 7:1)

It has also been used to describe someone's manner of living - such as when Isaiah asked the reader who would "declare [the] generation" of the Lord. (Isaiah 53:8)

Peter even used it to describe all the faithful as a "chosen generation" (1 Peter 2:9) so it could be used to describe a particular group of people or an ideology.

So - the references to "generation" that you mentioned above could be the Lord claiming that there would still be followers of Christ upon the Earth at the time of His Second Coming. It was less a prophecy about His Second Coming and more a prophecy about the preservation of the Church.

The other reference to going through all the towns before His coming could be similar. He is telling His followers that their missionary efforts would never cease and that Israel would one day be scattered.

Finally the one from 1 Thessolonians and Matthew 16 are most likely references to the concept of translation - meaning the idea that there have been prophets throughout time who never died according to the flesh but were instead either taken up bodily unto God or decided to sojourn upon the Earth until the time of the Second Coming of Christ.

Enoch and Elijah are famous examples of men who left the Earth without tasting death. And John the Beloved is also considered by many to be one who was promised by the Lord to "tarry" (or not die) until His Second Coming (John 21-20-22)

Paul was most likely referring to this concept of translation in 1 Thessolonians because he said prior to the verse you quoted,

"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep." (1 Thessolonians 4:13-15) (Bold and italics added)

Paul was explaining that those faithful who died in Christ will one day return with Him during His Second Coming as Resurrected Beings like the Lord Himself.

He then made it explicitly clear that any one of those were who chosen to remain until the coming of the Lord would not prevent the dead from returning at the Second Coming.

That leads into the verses you quoted where he said that those who remained would join with the Resurrected Beings with the Lord in the air.

I believe Paul had hope that he would be one of those who would be selected to remain - but we know that he was not because he was beheaded in Rome.
 

SeekingAllTruth

Well-Known Member
Do you ever wonder why that many Christians believe this in spite of the fact that Jesus never promised to do any such thing?

I don't wonder because I know the reasons:
1. They misinterpret the Bible
2. They are so emotionally attached to the same man Jesus that that that will not even entertain the possibility that the same man Jesus is never coming back to Earth, even after I have proven it with their own Bible! :D


You know, Trailblazer, if you knew how many paperbacks on the rapture, tribulation and 2nd coming are out there (easily 250,000 since Late Great Planet earth earned Hal Lindsay about 100 million bucks) you wouldn't wonder at all. Christian minds love the sensational lure of Bible prophecy about the 2nd Coming and there's no shortage of writers who smell lots of $$$'s and just take the same tired old formulaic scenario of rapture, rise of antichrist, european Union, antichrist wounded in head with sword, inhabited by satan, becomes world leader, forces everybody to take 666, then armageddon and jesus riding down on a white horse and just rinse repeat it with splashy covers like this:
350Wx350H-2630804.jpg


. This is a nutshell version. click and then scroll down:

Chick.com: Beast, The

I am not innocent. I was a sucker for this stuff just like hundreds of millions of other Christians are way back in the early days of my conversion. If only...IF ONLY I had back all the money I wasted on these books I'd be rich today.
loudly-crying-face_1f62d.png
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
You posted the verse. Jesus said that he who would save his life will lose it. And he who would lose his life would save it.

Both lose their lives, but only one saves it. The one who loses it.
John 12:24-26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

What I believe those verses mean is that if a person dies to this worldly life he will bring forth much spiritual fruit and attain eternal life, and such a man will be the one who hates his life in this world, but the person who loves this worldly life will lose eternal life. Thus it is a tradeoff.

Is that what you meant?
 

SeekingAllTruth

Well-Known Member
It's pointless to argue with you as to whether the Bible is inspired by God or not. The endless punishment in hell (the grave) is call "eternal punishment" not "eternal torment". Death is the wages of sin, and anyone who is without Christ does not escape death. Therefore, the punishment is eternal.
Paul refers to Satan as the God of this world because men serve their own desires rather than God. Their God is their own belly.

Well, if wide is the gate that leads to destruction, then I'd say God is doing one hell of a lousy job saving people.
 

SeekingAllTruth

Well-Known Member
Well I assure you that it has an answer....you have never obviously asked the right Christians....;)

What people fail to understand is the reason why God has allowed this situation to go on for so long.....
What was the point of the exercise that is outlined in Genesis and finalized in Revelation?

Humans, under influence of the devil, (God's first rebel) were basically told that God was a liar and that they were better off making up their own minds about what was good and what wasn't....so how are we doing on that score after thousands of years of trying to do things without God's interference? He stepped out of the picture for a reason...to allow his human children to see for themselves what it meant to try and live a peaceful and happy life without him. When have we ever had such a life? We all know we want it, but we can never achieve it....why?

God also had rebels in his other family who needed to learn the same lesson about obedience to their Sovereign Lord...the maker of the rules and the enforcer of his laws.The first rebel ensnared others with his lies....and these powerful creatures could do real damage. This is why the whole lesson was conducted in their time and not ours. (2 Peter 3:8) God's entire family of intelligent creatures were going to benefit from this lesson.

In Genesis it sets the scene for all that comes after. The results and impact of sin were felt when the pair found themselves evicted from their paradise home and all that went with it. They would now have to till cursed ground to eke out an existence and raise their children. Within one generation, murder was committed and this set things in motion for all that followed. Humans would go on proving how inept they were at trying to govern themselves....allowing emotions to dictate their actions instead of God's commands.
Pride, jealousy, covetousness and all manner of negative feelings would now be displayed in their interactions with one another. Any peace they enjoyed was taken away by someone imposing their will on others.

God's command to the first pair was to "fill the earth", so God allowed them to do so, despite the fact that sin was now in the world and part of the human psyche. Yet the Creator never left them without his guidance, should they wish to accept it of their own free will. He would not force them to obey him, but would ultimately punish them if they disobeyed.....this is what happened in the garden. They knew the penalty before they ate of the fruit and death did eventually overtake them, but not before they experienced the heartbreak of pain and suffering before death came to them.

We are taking part in the greatest object lesson in the history of the world. The outcome for ourselves is what we choose to do with the life we have been given. It will either be treated as a precious gift along with all the wonders of creation that still tell us how great and generous our Creator is....or we will be like spoiled brats, whining and throwing tantrums because 'Daddy' didn't give us everything we wanted.

How much of what we lament as "wrong" in the world is all our own doing? How good could life be if we had just done as we were told in the first place?

If we are parents, what is it that makes us proud of our children? Isn't it the fact that they do what is pleasing to us, not only to demonstrate that they are mature and can see the folly of caving in to selfishness, but because they can see that our life experience (even the things we are not proud of) can save them from repeating our stupid mistakes. Isn't that the reason why we repeat the same mistakes time after time? We never learn the lessons of the past.
We hope that they will consider what impact their behavior has on others and if you stand back and look at the world......imagine if everyone did that? What is stopping them? They are.

Are you getting the reason for the lesson yet? o_O

I thank you for the effort. I don't buy it though.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
He sent his Holy Spirit to tell us all about it. It's recorded in the Scriptures.
This agree with.....but he did not divulge his truth to any one individual......Christianity by its definition has to be a "church"...not a building, but a gathering or "congregation" of like minded individuals all taught by the same teacher...Jesus Christ. We must of necessity all be united in our beliefs, with no dissension. (Hebrews 10:24-25; 1 Corinthians 1:10) Only God's spirit can accomplish that degree of unity.

John 17:20-22...
"I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word, 21 so that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one."

If all those "individuals" to whom God has divulged his truth cannot agree, then it cannot be from God in the first place. Christianity has never been about individuals and what they think or feel is correct.....its about the collective. If the collective is cohesive, peaceful and operating harmoniously as a global brotherhood, obediently following ALL of Jesus' teachings, then that is where you will find the truth.

Jesus won't return until the Temple in Jerusalem is rebuilt. Cause it's there where the abomination which makes desolate is set up.
There will never be an earthly Temple rebuilt. For the simple reason that there is no need. As Paul said these earthly things represented things in heaven.
Hebrews:11-14...
"Also, every priest takes his station day after day to offer holy service and to make the same sacrifices often, which can never take sins away completely. 12 But this man offered one sacrifice for sins for all time and sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from then on waiting until his enemies should be placed as a stool for his feet. 14 For it is by one sacrificial offering that he has made those who are being sanctified perfect for all time."

There was no longer a need for the earthly Temple because there was longer a need for the sacrifices offered there. Jesus offered the permanent sacrifice once and for all. This is why there has been no Temple for the last 2,000 years.

The ones chosen to rule with Christ in his Kingdom will have the privilege of serving God in his grand spiritual Temple, where the High Priest and his priesthood are already preparing for the final showdown with satan's world.
Their priesthood is not served on earth but in heaven from where they will administer the rulership of God's Kingdom over this earth. (Revelation 21:2-4)
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I am not innocent. I was a sucker for this stuff just like hundreds of millions of other Christians are way back in the early days of my conversion. If only...IF ONLY I had back all the money I wasted on these books I'd be rich today.
To look at you now, I can hardly believe you were suckered in, but just think of how lucky you are to have escaped. :)

As I always say, it is better to be a nonbeliever than a believer with false beliefs. One reason for that is because it is always possible to find the truth if you don't know what it is yet, but for Christians who are certain that their beliefs are 'the only way' it is not possible to see any other truth because their minds are closed like a steel trap. :(
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I thank you for the effort. I don't buy it though.
I wasn't selling it.....
confused0036.gif
Its an 'invitation only' situation. (John 6:65)

I believe that what you mistook for Christianity never was.....there are "wheat" and "weeds" remember? Could it be that you mistook one for the other? There was not going to be a clear separation until the harvest time.....I can see the reapers waiting for the signal to begin the harvest as we speak. It starts with the weeds and ends with the wheat taken into God's storehouse. I'd be happy to be a bit of grain on the floor.....
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
There will never be an earthly Temple rebuilt. For the simple reason that there is no need.
The temple will be rebuilt if for no other reason than the earth is simply not whole without it. But in addition to that, God commands the Jewish people to offer sacrifice. There are many sacrifices -- not just atonement mind you. While Judaism works okay without the temple, it is not at its best. Judaism simply isn't complete without the temple. It is simply a matter for when the time is right. (Right now is not the time.)
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
The temple will be rebuilt if for no other reason than the earth is simply not whole without it. But in addition to that, God commands the Jewish people to offer sacrifice. There are many sacrifices -- not just atonement mind you. While Judaism works okay without the temple, it is not at its best. Judaism simply isn't complete without the temple. It is simply a matter for when the time is right. (Right now is not the time.)
I have seen many excuses offered for why Jews believe that the Temple has never been rebuilt...but if Judaism is "not whole", or is "incomplete" without it, then why have 2,000 years elapsed with no command to rebuild it?

How do Jews offer the required sacrifices under the Law that they still believe is binding, when there is no way to offer them legitimately? Where is the priesthood? Did it just disappear?

Even in the desert God had the Tabernacle constructed for the sacrifices to be offered. The wilderness sojourn was only 40 years and they still had the means to offer their sacrifices, despite the fact that they had not yet entered the Promised Land.

I guess that the Jewish people have to come to terms with why their Temple was destroyed in the first place....? God only ever allowed it when the Jewish people, (under their corrupt leadership) had offended him to the limit......could it be that Jesus was the Messiah and that he has paid the ultimate sacrifice so that an earthly Temple is no longer necessary? A synagogue was not a replacement for the Temple...was it?

Didn't Jesus tell his disciples that "a stone would not be left upon a stone and not thrown down"? (Matthew 24:1-2) It wasn't Jesus' followers who destroyed the Temple but the Roman army. How did Jesus know that this would be the case? How could he tell his disciples to flee to the mountains so as to avoid what happened in that first awful holocaust in Jerusalem? Why do they believe that it was allowed to happen again in Nazi Germany?

Why do Jews believe that God allowed it to happen at all?
 
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