• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

How can the Jew reject, Jesus, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah?

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
While Israel didn't suffer for their sins, how did they suffer for the sins of others when they were being persecuted?
I'm not sure how to explain it any other way. My answer to this would be simply repeating what I said previously.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Ah. OK. I read it a little differently. Looking at that chapter as a messianic prophecy is difficult for me.

Israel cannot be the suffering servant because the context about that chapter was about the Messiah. The Astonishing Servant of Jehovah

Section one talks about salvation from the Babylonian captivity. Section two talks about salvation from sin. And section three, the last nine, salvation from the cursed earth. So the first has to do with the deliverance of Israel from Babylon. The middle one, as I said a lot earlier, has to do with the deliverance of sinners from sin. And the third one, the deliverance of the earth from the curse, the glorious coming Kingdom of Messiah.
So the middle one is the one we’re in. The middle section that we’re in runs from 49 to 57. And this middle one is the issue of forgiveness of sins, and it asks the question about salvation from sin. Not temporal deliverance from Babylon, and not the eschatological Kingdom to come in the future, but deliverance from sin. Now that poses a very important question. Don’t miss this; this would be worth waiting for. Why does God need to save His people from their sins? This is huge. This is huge.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
God does everything with an order and a purpose. why would God send a different Messiah?
Because Jesus had finished His work and humanity needed a new Messiah to do what Jesus left undone.

John 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Because Jesus had finished His work and humanity needed a new Messiah to do what Jesus left undone.

John 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Why would there be a Savior who isn't God? God is the only Savior there is.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
I thought Jesus was the Savior?
But that's true, ultimately it is God who saves.

Why would there be another Messiah if Jesus is the Savior? I remember people who were talking about mindfulness were saying that someone was a Messiah, and I find that blasphemous.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Why would there be another Messiah if Jesus is the Savior? I remember people who were talking about mindfulness were saying that someone was a Messiah, and I find that blasphemous.
Jesus was Savior but we have already been saved by the cross sacrifice so Jesus finished His work.
Here is why we needed a new Messiah to do more work:

“The vitality of men’s belief in God is dying out in every land; nothing short of His wholesome medicine can ever restore it. The corrosion of ungodliness is eating into the vitals of human society; what else but the Elixir of His potent Revelation can cleanse and revive it? Is it within human power, O Hakím, to effect in the constituent elements of any of the minute and indivisible particles of matter so complete a transformation as to transmute it into purest gold? Perplexing and difficult as this may appear, the still greater task of converting satanic strength into heavenly power is one that We have been empowered to accomplish. The Force capable of such a transformation transcendeth the potency of the Elixir itself. The Word of God, alone, can claim the distinction of being endowed with the capacity required for so great and far-reaching a change.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 200


“How long will humanity persist in its waywardness? How long will injustice continue? How long is chaos and confusion to reign amongst men? How long will discord agitate the face of society?… The winds of despair are, alas, blowing from every direction, and the strife that divideth and afflicteth the human race is daily increasing. The signs of impending convulsions and chaos can now be discerned, inasmuch as the prevailing order appeareth to be lamentably defective.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 216
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Jesus was Savior but we have already been saved by the cross sacrifice so Jesus finished His work.
Here is why we needed a new Messiah to do more work:

“The vitality of men’s belief in God is dying out in every land; nothing short of His wholesome medicine can ever restore it. The corrosion of ungodliness is eating into the vitals of human society; what else but the Elixir of His potent Revelation can cleanse and revive it? Is it within human power, O Hakím, to effect in the constituent elements of any of the minute and indivisible particles of matter so complete a transformation as to transmute it into purest gold? Perplexing and difficult as this may appear, the still greater task of converting satanic strength into heavenly power is one that We have been empowered to accomplish. The Force capable of such a transformation transcendeth the potency of the Elixir itself. The Word of God, alone, can claim the distinction of being endowed with the capacity required for so great and far-reaching a change.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 200


“How long will humanity persist in its waywardness? How long will injustice continue? How long is chaos and confusion to reign amongst men? How long will discord agitate the face of society?… The winds of despair are, alas, blowing from every direction, and the strife that divideth and afflicteth the human race is daily increasing. The signs of impending convulsions and chaos can now be discerned, inasmuch as the prevailing order appeareth to be lamentably defective.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 216

Why would there be another Messiah if God is the only one who delivers?
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
God did not become the Messiah. The Messiah delivered God's message for God.

Jesus is both God and the Messiah. Is Yeshua Hamashiach the proper Hebrew name/title for Jesus Christ? | GotQuestions.org

The Hebrew term Mashiach (or Messiah in English; Cristos, or Christ, in Greek) means “anointed one” and referred to a person who was set apart to serve Yahweh. In the Old Testament, God’s mashiachs were anointed with oil to symbolize the presence and authority of the Holy Spirit (Leviticus 4:3; 1 Samuel 12:14; 2 Samuel 19:21). God had promised Israel an ultimate Mashiach, or Messiah, and gave over 300 prophecies about this Anointed One so that they would recognize Him when He came (Isaiah 53:1; Psalm 22:27; 10:1–4; Daniel 9:25; 7:13). Jesus fulfilled every one of them, thus deserving the title Yeshua Hamaschiach for the Jewish people.

However, Jesus came into the world to offer salvation and forgiveness to everyone who calls upon His name (John 3:16–18; Acts 2:21). Surrounding His throne for all eternity will be people from “every nation, tribe, and tongue” (Revelation 7:9). God is not offended by our languages or our differences. Throughout the Bible, Yahweh even identified Himself by different names as He dealt with people in different ways (Exodus 3:14; Isaiah 48:12; Revelation 1:8). Jesus called Himself the “Son of Man” (Matthew 26:24; Luke 22:22), and others called Him “Teacher” (Matthew 8:19) and “Rabbi” (John 1:49). He never corrected anyone’s pronunciation or use of a messianic title, as long as the person came to Him in faith.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Jesus was Savior but we have already been saved by the cross sacrifice so Jesus finished His work.
Here is why we needed a new Messiah to do more work:

“The vitality of men’s belief in God is dying out in every land; nothing short of His wholesome medicine can ever restore it. The corrosion of ungodliness is eating into the vitals of human society; what else but the Elixir of His potent Revelation can cleanse and revive it? Is it within human power, O Hakím, to effect in the constituent elements of any of the minute and indivisible particles of matter so complete a transformation as to transmute it into purest gold? Perplexing and difficult as this may appear, the still greater task of converting satanic strength into heavenly power is one that We have been empowered to accomplish. The Force capable of such a transformation transcendeth the potency of the Elixir itself. The Word of God, alone, can claim the distinction of being endowed with the capacity required for so great and far-reaching a change.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 200


“How long will humanity persist in its waywardness? How long will injustice continue? How long is chaos and confusion to reign amongst men? How long will discord agitate the face of society?… The winds of despair are, alas, blowing from every direction, and the strife that divideth and afflicteth the human race is daily increasing. The signs of impending convulsions and chaos can now be discerned, inasmuch as the prevailing order appeareth to be lamentably defective.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 216

Jesus as the Messiah came to save us and teach us how to live.
 
Top