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Am I saved if I have a different biblical interpretation of the oneness of God?

roberto

Active Member
Hi Monk,
actually, people get punished for what they do.
This is my view of Christian doctrine, at least.
But if they want to enter heaven, this is only possible with a free ticket from Jesus, and this in turn is only available on faith.
So, you're 50% right, I'd say.

Why Christians want to go to heaven beats me, as the "endgame" of the Bible is to enter into the City of Yahweh, which is coming down to earth.

Faith alone? :

Jas 2:20 But do you want to know, vain man, that faith apart from works is dead?
Jas 2:26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, even so faith apart from works is dead.
 

roberto

Active Member
The key to enduring is love, 1 Corinthians 13:7, ". . . endureth all things." And 1 John 4:7-8, "Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." And 1 John 5:1; 1 John 5:9-13.

Exo 20:6 and showing loving kindness to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Deu 5:10 and showing loving kindness to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Joh 14:15 If you love me, keep my commandments.
1Jn 2:4 One who says, “I know him,” and doesn’t keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth isn’t in him.
 

thomas t

non-denominational Christian
Why Christians want to go to heaven beats me, as the "endgame" of the Bible is to enter into the City of Yahweh, which is coming down to earth.

Faith alone? :

Jas 2:20 But do you want to know, vain man, that faith apart from works is dead?
Jas 2:26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, even so faith apart from works is dead.
which is true.
however, you can't enter heaven by works. This is at least my take on the matter.
And that's what I said.
 
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thomas t

non-denominational Christian
Hi Thomas, Please explain to me why Christians want to go to heaven and how they go about doing that if it is possible.
I can only speak for myself.
To me, this place in Luke 23:43 sounds promising. It's paradise. For me, that's heaven (maybe I used the wrong word.).
 

roberto

Active Member
I can only speak for myself.
To me, this place in Luke 23:43 sounds promising. It's paradise. For me, that's heaven (maybe I used the wrong word.).

Thomas this is the Complete Jewish Bible verse:
Luk 23:43 Yeshua said to him, "Yes! I promise that you will be with me today in Gan-`Eden."

Garden of Eden perhaps?

The King James strongs gives this :
par-ad'-i-sos
Of Oriental origin (compare [H6508]); a park, that is, (specifically) an Eden (place of future happiness, “paradise”): - paradise.

Adam and Eve's park/garden ?

Rev 21:10 He carried me off in the Spirit to the top of a great, high mountain and showed me the holy city, Yerushalayim, coming down out of heaven from God.

So, question is, where is this city to be "stationed" ?
 

thomas t

non-denominational Christian
Thomas this is the Complete Jewish Bible verse:
Luk 23:43 Yeshua said to him, "Yes! I promise that you will be with me today in Gan-`Eden."

Garden of Eden perhaps?

The King James strongs gives this :
par-ad'-i-sos
Of Oriental origin (compare [H6508]); a park, that is, (specifically) an Eden (place of future happiness, “paradise”): - paradise.

Adam and Eve's park/garden ?
oh yeah, sounds good.
Or something like the garden, too. Maybe that word had a meaning of its own. I'm not sure here.
However, it sounds nice to me!
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I want to understand why Christians do not think I'm saved. I don't want to argue with them. I genuinely want to understand their rationale.

Here's why it's a question: I recognize that there are many debates among Christians on interpretations of the Bible, yet my understanding is that a Baptist will still admit that a Presbyterian is saved because he or she has accepted Jesus as their personal Savior. But they will not accept that I, as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who accepts Jesus as my personal Savior, is saved. Why?

I have tried to ask this question many times, and except for once with a person I was able to convince that I do not want to argue, it has always quickly turned into why they believe Joseph Smith was an evil deceiver, not answering my question.

The one person who did answer me explained that because I do not believe in the Trinity, that even though I say the name "Jesus Christ", that I do not believe in the REAL Jesus Christ. That what I believe is a fictional idea that is not real, and that I have merely attributed the name "Jesus Christ" to that fictional idea. The REAL Jesus Christ that I should be accepting as my Savior is in the Trinity.

My question therefore is, if I interpret John 17:21 that "one" in the way that the followers of Jesus can be aligned perfectly with Him, the same way that Jesus Christ is already perfectly aligned with His Father, than does that interpretation nullify me?

Why do other disagreements over scriptural interpretation not nullify other Christian's beliefs?

And if a person who is initially unfamiliar with Christianity, then learns about it from a Christian missionary, and confesses Jesus, and then dies from an accident, and still harbors mistaken beliefs about God because he has not yet been taught fully by the missionaries, is he saved?

Your illumination on the topic would be appreciated.
Why are you looking to others whose beliefs you don't accept anyway for validation?
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I want to understand why Christians do not think I'm saved. I don't want to argue with them. I genuinely want to understand their rationale.
Welcome to RF Andrew,

Answer to your question:
IMO, the only reason for this is, that they were taught to think this way. No pure (non-judgmental) human being would normally think like this.

Normally we easier understand how others think, if we think in a similar way like they think

Question:
Can I conclude from this, that you never think that "other Christians" aren't (won't be) saved?
("other Christians", as in other denominations; e.g. different from yours)
 
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lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
Maybe we should ask what it really means to be "saved". Jesus said he will return to earth to judge the livivg and the dead. Those who are worthly will gain entry into his kingdom. Those who are not worthy will be thrown into the lake of fire. So then, those who are worthy with be "saved" from the lake of fire. No one will really know if they are saved or not until that day comes and they are found worhty of the kingdom and are therefor "saved". Basically no one is saved yet because they have not been judged.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
In the game of soccer, when is a/the goal scored? Only when the ball is in the net ?

Similar to "the Biblical game"......, one will only be able to say I am saved when you stand in the Kingdom.

And knowing Obama or Trump does not mean that they know me/you.
Yes... knowing "about" someone isn't the same as having a "relationship" and "knowing" the person
 

Andrew Reil

Member
Well, I wouldn't worry too much about what others think about me.

I myself am one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I worship Him, Jehovah (Psalms 83:18), aka Yahweh, as Jesus did (John 20:17).

Remember the two greatest commandments, to 'love God w/ your whole soul, mind & strength...and your neighbor as yourself'? Matthew 22:37-39? Follow those...loving God means "coming to know" Him (and His son) (John 17:3) & being obedient to His commandments (1 John 5:3). Loving others means being kind & concerned for their welfare.

The apostle Peter stated, "I perceive that God is not partial, but in every nation the man that fears Him & works righteousness is acceptable to Him." -- Acts of the Apostles 10:34-35

And KEEP SEARCHING the Scriptures! Pray for help to Yahweh / Jehovah, the Father (John 14:1).

Best wishes, my cousin.
Thank-you. I believe those scriptures too.
 

Andrew Reil

Member
I'm sorry, I keep seeing statements in your post that I feel require a response....
Regarding the trinity...
Psalms 83:18 says Jehovah is THE MOST HIGH. He has no head. But according to 1 Corinthians 11:3, Jesus does have a head.

Jesus is our Savior (whom God sent), not our God.

Keep up your study of the Scriptures!
Good point.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Thank-you. I believe those scriptures too.
Love believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Is that what you mean? You certainly don't believe, like, what the JW's do.

***edit*** or Muslims, or ... everybody...all the different groups. You have your specific beliefs that you require.


******edit****** Unless you're sort of a universalist or something...

So a universalist. Sort of like a Baha'i in that respect?
 

Andrew Reil

Member
As a sufi muslim i might not have a good answer for you. But i believe if you live a righteous life and do everything in your power to better your self as a Christian who do as Jesus asked of you, you have a good chance of being saved :)

But saved only by belief, that i personally do not believe in.
Thank-you
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I want to understand why Christians do not think I'm saved. I don't want to argue with them. I genuinely want to understand their rationale.

Here's why it's a question: I recognize that there are many debates among Christians on interpretations of the Bible, yet my understanding is that a Baptist will still admit that a Presbyterian is saved because he or she has accepted Jesus as their personal Savior. But they will not accept that I, as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who accepts Jesus as my personal Savior, is saved. Why?

I have tried to ask this question many times, and except for once with a person I was able to convince that I do not want to argue, it has always quickly turned into why they believe Joseph Smith was an evil deceiver, not answering my question.

The one person who did answer me explained that because I do not believe in the Trinity, that even though I say the name "Jesus Christ", that I do not believe in the REAL Jesus Christ. That what I believe is a fictional idea that is not real, and that I have merely attributed the name "Jesus Christ" to that fictional idea. The REAL Jesus Christ that I should be accepting as my Savior is in the Trinity.

My question therefore is, if I interpret John 17:21 that "one" in the way that the followers of Jesus can be aligned perfectly with Him, the same way that Jesus Christ is already perfectly aligned with His Father, than does that interpretation nullify me?

Why do other disagreements over scriptural interpretation not nullify other Christian's beliefs?

And if a person who is initially unfamiliar with Christianity, then learns about it from a Christian missionary, and confesses Jesus, and then dies from an accident, and still harbors mistaken beliefs about God because he has not yet been taught fully by the missionaries, is he saved?

Your illumination on the topic would be appreciated.

In my personal opinion from my former experience, you're saved by practice not by belief and definitely not by study.

I can go into the church and say I believe all I want (even say I believe I can fly), that does nothing. I can study the bible, go to theology class, say lord lord, and jump up and down, that just makes me get a high but does nothing.

If I put my effort into worship. If I serve. If I said "here I am." Charity. Being kind (not telling people they have the wrong jesus). Things like that. If it changes my wellbeing, who I am, how I speak, behavior, and so forth THAT is how I would be saved.

Whether you believe in the trinity or not is irrelevant. My brother believes his mother is off kilter. I just think she has the sign of the grumps. Our interpretations of our mother's love and lack of it doesn't influence whether she loves us or not. Same as god (I would assume) that just because you say he has two heads and the other three, doesn't mean god is no different than a mystery you guys can't figure out given the nature of god.

I wouldn't listen to people. JW seem to stick with their peers and don't take much from other christians who don't agree. While that's kind of weird, on the other hand, getting understanding from peers may help put things in perspective. But I'm not aware of LDS practices so my advice is if you know you're saved, you're saved. If I were christian I'd say only through the sacraments, but since not being a christian gave me some more open insight, it really doesn't matter as long as you have a relationship with god. Getting the wrong verse or joining the wrong group doesn't make your relationship less of value.
 

Andrew Reil

Member
Perhaps then it boils down to “who” you believe, rather than just “what” you believe? It also depends on where a person has come from in their spiritual journey....in Jesus’ day, he preached to his fellow Jews, who were already in a dedicated relationship with God. But he had issues with the teachings of the Pharisees, saying that they “taught the commands of men as doctrine”. (Matthew 15:7-9) so even though they had God’s word, they did not teach it correctly, but added many detailed explanations to it that were not necessary and that warped what God had originally said.
If the person or organization who teaches us has the wrong message to convey, shouldn’t we be informed about that?

As Paul said....
11 For the scripture says: “No one who rests his faith on him will be disappointed.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek. There is the same Lord over all, who is rich toward all those calling on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” 14 However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? 15 How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out?”

What did that mean back then to those first Christians?

If there is “the same Lord over all” then we should get to know him and the one whom he sent. (John 17:3)



Since the Bible does not teach that Jesus is part of a triune godhead, it is my belief that steering clear of that belief is a good thing. Jesus never said he was God...not once. To put another god in place of the Father is a breach of the first Commandment. (Exodus 20:3)



I guess that people in Christendom all believe the same set of core beliefs....and if you do not accept that core, then you cannot be acceptable to them as a Christian. But Jesus’ words at the time of the judgment are sobering because “many” are going to suffer complete rejection. It will shock them.

Matthew 7:21-23...
Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’“

So just acknowledging Jesus as your “Lord”, unless you are “doing the will of the Father” it means very little. When we are taught scripture and the value of it, we cannot afford to get things wrong. If God is the author of scripture, then there will be no contradiction or deviation from what is written in his word. There was to be no other scripture....no additions to what was written....and no other prophets because Jesus was the last prophet.

From creation to the final test of Revelation, all scripture must harmonize because it is inspired by the same author.



Since Jesus promised to resurrect both the righteous and the unrighteousness, calling them from the same place (their tombs. John 5:28-29) we can be sure that God’s original purpose for this earth and all the life he established here will finally be at realized (Isaiah 55:11)....all will be at peace with the Creator, reconciled through the sacrifice of Christ, his obedient son.

As far as “salvation” is concerned, well that is for Jesus to judge. From his words in Matthew 7:21-23, it is apparent that “many” will not make the cut, despite all the things they said that they had done “in his name”.

So from my perspective, there can only be one truth, and Jesus said that no one can come to him without an invitation from his Father. (John 6:44, 65) So as one who reads hearts, it is up to God to reveal his truth to whomever he wishes. But as history demonstrates, the God of the Bible is a God of order and organization. He has always had one people who were taught one truth (1 Corinthians 1:10) and they were gathered together for worship as one body of believers. (Hebrews 10:24-25) No one was allowed to bring in any beliefs from outside of what was provided by God in his word....

So that is how I see the situation.....we have to make the choice to worship the true God as he says he must be worshipped, not deviating to the right or to the left.....(Isaiah 30:21)

Thank-you. These all all good points, and I believe these scriptures.

I also want to understand why some Christian's believe the way they do about my not being saved.
 
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