• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Quran, Harry Potter, and Lord of the rings. Same?

firedragon

Veteran Member
There was an interesting point raised that all three are the same as in scripture, and that all three are fiction. It is a fascinating subject to address I believe, thus anyone who thinks this and claims this,

1. Why do you think Harry Potter is or can be anyones "religious scripture"?
2. What evidence do you have that Adam and Noah were fiction?

The claimant has the burden of proof, thus rather than committing the burden of proof fallacy, I would like to hear the mythicists argument on this.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
There was an interesting point raised that all three are the same as in scripture, and that all three are fiction. It is a fascinating subject to address I believe, thus anyone who thinks this and claims this,

1. Why do you think Harry Potter is or can be anyones "religious scripture"?
2. What evidence do you have that Adam and Noah were fiction?

The claimant has the burden of proof, thus rather than committing the burden of proof fallacy, I would like to hear the mythicists argument on this.
I don't think scripture vs. Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings are in the same literary category.
With Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings we know that they were intended as entertaining fiction. We know the authors. We agree they are fictional.

Scripture is more in the epic/saga/legend/fairy tale/myth section.
The original authors are usually unknown. Sometimes the authors are known but only relay an older oral tradition.
Thus the original intention is impossible to determine.
Also, the stories may rest on real events which were embroidered.

It isn't always easy to discern the legendary from the mythical. E.g. the Illiad and Odyssey were thought to be entirely fictional until Schliemann found Troy based on the story. So even when we can rule out some things by physical impossibility (like Adam and Noah), we have to look deeper for others (like Moses and Jesus).
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
I don't think scripture vs. Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings are in the same literary category.
With Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings we know that they were intended as entertaining fiction. We know the authors. We agree they are fictional.

Scripture is more in the epic/saga/legend/fairy tale/myth section.
The original authors are usually unknown. Sometimes the authors are known but only relay an older oral tradition.
Thus the original intention is impossible to determine.
Also, the stories may rest on real events which were embroidered.

It isn't always easy to discern the legendary from the mythical. E.g. the Illiad and Odyssey were thought to be entirely fictional until Schliemann found Troy based on the story. So even when we can rule out some things by physical impossibility (like Adam and Noah), we have to look deeper for others (like Moses and Jesus).

Yep. I think you nailed it.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
There was an interesting point raised that all three are the same as in scripture, and that all three are fiction. It is a fascinating subject to address I believe, thus anyone who thinks this and claims this,

1. Why do you think Harry Potter is or can be anyones "religious scripture"?
2. What evidence do you have that Adam and Noah were fiction?

The claimant has the burden of proof, thus rather than committing the burden of proof fallacy, I would like to hear the mythicists argument on this.
How dare you, sir! To besmirch the Lord of the Rings by claiming its fiction. Blasphemer!!
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't think scripture vs. Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings are in the same literary category.
With Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings we know that they were intended as entertaining fiction. We know the authors. We agree they are fictional.

Scripture is more in the epic/saga/legend/fairy tale/myth section.
The original authors are usually unknown. Sometimes the authors are known but only relay an older oral tradition.
Thus the original intention is impossible to determine.
Also, the stories may rest on real events which were embroidered.

It isn't always easy to discern the legendary from the mythical. E.g. the Illiad and Odyssey were thought to be entirely fictional until Schliemann found Troy based on the story. So even when we can rule out some things by physical impossibility (like Adam and Noah), we have to look deeper for others (like Moses and Jesus).
Actually Lord of The Rings borrows heavily from Saga and epics, creating its own. Clearly more proof it is the true holy scripture. ;)
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
They perhaps have one thing in common - being aimed at children - the Potter stuff literally, whilst the religious texts are more 'leave any critical thinking behind and just accept what is said' - after all, it will just do you some good, so ignore any doubts. :oops:
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
There was an interesting point raised that all three are the same as in scripture, and that all three are fiction. It is a fascinating subject to address I believe, thus anyone who thinks this and claims this,

1. Why do you think Harry Potter is or can be anyones "religious scripture"?
2. What evidence do you have that Adam and Noah were fiction?

The claimant has the burden of proof, thus rather than committing the burden of proof fallacy, I would like to hear the mythicists argument on this.
What is the exact claim you claim is being claimed?
Actual quotes please,

I flat out ask because this seems to be nothing more than a strawman of the claim they are all equally fiction.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
They perhaps have one thing in common - being aimed at children - the Potter stuff literally, whilst the religious texts are more 'leave any critical thinking behind and just accept what is said' - after all, it will just do you some good, so ignore any doubts. :oops:
I dunno if many kids will read Lord of the Rings. The Hobbit, sure. But damn the trilogy is a bit dense. Interestingly CS Lewis who was converted by Tolkien wrote a children’s version of the Gospels (Narnia.)
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
There was an interesting point raised that all three are the same as in scripture, and that all three are fiction. It is a fascinating subject to address I believe, thus anyone who thinks this and claims this,

1. Why do you think Harry Potter is or can be anyones "religious scripture"?
2. What evidence do you have that Adam and Noah were fiction?

The claimant has the burden of proof, thus rather than committing the burden of proof fallacy, I would like to hear the mythicists argument on this.
About Adam: my first assumption is that in an "origin story" for humanity about a man named "Man," the man is probably meant to be an archetype and isn't meant to refer to a real historical person.

I take it that you have a different view.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
They perhaps have one thing in common - being aimed at children - the Potter stuff literally, whilst the religious texts are more 'leave any critical thinking behind and just accept what is said' - after all, it will just do you some good, so ignore any doubts. :oops:

Well, maybe comments like that by those who have no clue of the literature they are commenting about says a lot about themselves.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
About Adam: my first assumption is that in an "origin story" for humanity about a man named "Man," the man is probably meant to be an archetype and isn't meant to refer to a real historical person.

I take it that you have a different view.

Okay. Thats a good view. Although Adam does not mean man, it is a reference to man.

How about Noah?
 
Last edited:

firedragon

Veteran Member
What is the exact claim you claim is being claimed?
Actual quotes please,

I flat out ask because this seems to be nothing more than a strawman of the claim they are all equally fiction.

I think you have already given the answer and shown how you will answer anyway. So thanks.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I don't think scripture vs. Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings are in the same literary category.
With Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings we know that they were intended as entertaining fiction. We know the authors. We agree they are fictional.

Scripture is more in the epic/saga/legend/fairy tale/myth section.
The original authors are usually unknown. Sometimes the authors are known but only relay an older oral tradition.
Thus the original intention is impossible to determine.
Also, the stories may rest on real events which were embroidered.

It isn't always easy to discern the legendary from the mythical. E.g. the Illiad and Odyssey were thought to be entirely fictional until Schliemann found Troy based on the story. So even when we can rule out some things by physical impossibility (like Adam and Noah), we have to look deeper for others (like Moses and Jesus).

The Iliad is a more or less straightforward
account of a battle except for all the magic
realism.

Other than the magic, it describes things
that could have happened.

The big significant events in the Bible
are things that could not have happened,
giving an added level of unreality.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
They perhaps have one thing in common - being aimed at children - the Potter stuff literally, whilst the religious texts are more 'leave any critical thinking behind and just accept what is said' - after all, it will just do you some good, so ignore any doubts. :oops:
Lest you become as a child...
 
Top