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Debate on hell

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
Hell equals death. Jesus taught life eternal or death eternal. The gospel writers or later translators used hell for eternal death.

Jesus would have spoken the common language of the day which was Aramaic.

English "Gehenna" represents the Greek Geenna (Γέεννα) found in the New Testament, a phonetic transcription of Aramaic Gēhannā (ܓܝܗܢܐ), equivalent to the Hebrew Ge Hinnom, literally "Valley of Hinnom".

There is no such animal as "eternal" death. Our God is indeed aidios from which everything flows unto His purposes in the Christ.

Aidios kolasis is NOT mindless torture but one of change and transformation!

God is the Source, Guide & Goal of ta panta
 

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
"From Him the all comes, through Him the all exists, and in Him the all ends..."

There is no wiggle room: the ta panta begins in our God, the ta panta ends in our God!

The all things recorded in Rev. 5.13 demonstrates the exact outcome! The entire creation encapsulating the heavens, the earth, and the underworld, ultimately sings in antiphonal worship to our glorious God of glory!

"It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him. And you..."
 

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
The Father of all fathers has a Name. His Name is Abba (dearest Daddy). Abba knows how to correct with precision any of His wayward children. Punishment by this glorious Father of ours is NOT an end in itself, but leads to the peaceable fruits of righteousness!

Questions to consider

As we are required to love our enemies, may we not safely infer that God loves His enemies? (Matt. 5:44)

If God loves His enemies, will He punish them more than will be for their good?

Would endless punishment be for the good of any being?

As God loves His friends, if He loves His enemies also, are not all mankind the objects of His love?

If God loves those only who love Him, what better is He than the sinner? (Luke 6:32-33)

As "love thinketh no evil," can God design the ultimate evil of a single soul? (1 Cor. 13:5)

As "love worketh no ill," can God inflict, or cause, or allow to be inflicted, an endless ill? (Rom. 13:10)

As we are forbidden to be overcome by evil, can we safely suppose that God will be overcome by evil? (Rom. 12:21)

Would not the infliction of endless punishment prove that God HAD been overcome by evil?

If man does wrong in returning evil for evil, would not God do wrong if He was to do the same?

Would not endless punishment be the return of evil for evil?

As we are commanded "to overcome evil with good," may we not safely infer that God will do the same? (Rom. 12:21)

Would the infliction of endless punishment be overcoming evil with good?
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Why does the Bible mention the wicked being turned to hell if hell isn't mentioned in the Old Testament?

I believe that is circular reasoning. I believe Hell is an English word based on Norse myths of Hel who was the keeper of the place bad people went to when they died. Sheol is the Hebrew word for the grave and invariably means in the ground. Translating sheol as hell instead of the grave is incorrect.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Hell equals death. Jesus taught life eternal or death eternal. The gospel writers or later translators used hell for eternal death.

Jesus would have spoken the common language of the day which was Aramaic.

English "Gehenna" represents the Greek Geenna (Γέεννα) found in the New Testament, a phonetic transcription of Aramaic Gēhannā (ܓܝܗܢܐ), equivalent to the Hebrew Ge Hinnom, literally "Valley of Hinnom".

I do not believe hell equals death. It may be a place where the spiritually dead go but Hell is simply the lake of fire at least in the way we use the term as opposed to Norse myth which had a different view of it.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
I believe that is circular reasoning. I believe Hell is an English word based on Norse myths of Hel who was the keeper of the place bad people went to when they died. Sheol is the Hebrew word for the grave and invariably means in the ground. Translating sheol as hell instead of the grave is incorrect.

The word hell is also used to describe a negative situation. It isn't just based on Norse myths. NIV Butchers Psalm 9:17


Psalm 9:17, “The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.”

The Bible plainly warns that the wicked and all the nations who forget God (which definitely includes America) shall be turned into Hell. Since the righteous and the wicked both go to the grave, this Scripture would make absolutely no sense if hell only refers to the grave here. Both the righteous and the wicked go to the grave, but only the wicked are turned into hellfire. The King James translators knew this, which is why they used the word “hell.”

The updated NIV uses the phrase “realm of the dead,” which is what “sheol” means in the Hebrew language; however, the King James translators knew that if they referred to the grave or realm of the dead that people would be confused. Sheol can refer to Heaven or Hell, since it merely refers to the afterlife (realm of the dead). Clearly in the context of this particular Scripture, Hell is intended. The King James translators knew this.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
View attachment 46272

That's Hell or Gehenna today. I was there a couple years ago and snapped this photo. I just had to go to hell while in Jerusalem as people have been telling me to go to hell for years. Its a lovely park now.

I believe gehenna is not Hell but was simply like Hell at one time because it was a place of continual fire.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
I believe this is the Hebrew: לִשְׁא֑וֹלָה
liš-’ō-w-lāh;

שְׁאֹל 1) sheol, underworld, grave according to Strong's lexicon.
It also lists Hell but that is out of context with the rest of the OT which always refers to the grave.

Why would all the souls go to the grave? Heaven is not the grave. NIV Butchers Psalm 9:17

To say that the wicked go to the grave makes no sense, because the righteous also go to the grave.

Psalm 9:17 clearly teaches that the wicked and those nations who forget God are going to the Lake of Fire to be punished for all eternity. The righteous will be in Heaven with the Lord, enjoying the blessings of a merciful God.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
I believe gehenna is not Hell but was simply like Hell at one time because it was a place of continual fire.
Jesus taught life or death. Fir the unsaved there wouldn’t be any reason for them to hang out in heaven. Their choice is confirmed.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Jesus taught life or death. Fir the unsaved there wouldn’t be any reason for them to hang out in heaven. Their choice is confirmed.

I believe unsaved does not necessarily mean ignorant. The ignorant thought that their evil ways would keep them out of Heaven but a person who wanted to go there could unless they were so bad that God wasn't finished punishing them yet.
 

TrueBeliever37

Well-Known Member
The concept of Hell and eternally burning souls in hell that much of Christianity has today in my view is not biblical but a false teaching invented by the Roman Catholic Church handed down to much of protestantism. This was never the view of the old testament scriptures and there is no case for it in the new testament. It comes from a misapplication and interpretation of some new testament scriptures and the prophecies of Revelation but these were all written and understood in conection to the old testament scriptures to which they were taken from the Hebrew to the Greek. Someone else (Clear) already posted the Hebrew from the old testament scripture and the Greek for you showing Hades being used here means the grave. Don't know what else to say here really accept to say don'y rely on the teachings of others. Do a prayerful study of the scriptures for yourself.

Sorry - but it is biblical, and there is a hell.

Matthew 25:41 mentions everlasting fire
Matthew 25:46 mentions eternal punishment
Matthew 18:8 - everlasting fire
Matthew 18:9 - hell fire
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and obey not the gospel...
Revelation 20:15 - whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire
Revelation 21:8 - the lake which burns with fire and brimstone
 

TrueBeliever37

Well-Known Member
Not quite. The 2nd death, a.k.a. the Lake of Fire, is the termination of all hell. ALL!

You will NOT find the term aidios timorion (i.e., eternal torment) anywhere in the Scriptures. It is a limited duration or period of time as in aionion kalasin; an age within the ages of time.

Matthew 25:41 - everlasting fire
Matthew 25:46 - everlasting punishment
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
I believe people go where they believe they can go. If a person believes he is going to Hell he just might go there even though it is beforetime. Heaven was not known as a possible outcome until Jesus spoke of it.

People going where they believe they can go is universalism. Rob Bell: Populating Hell | Good Fight Ministries

Rob Bell states that those who hold to what has traditionally been understood to be the biblical teaching of Heaven and Hell “don’t throw very good parties” (p. 179). That may be true… if you “call evil good and good evil” (Isaiah 5:20) and you believe, contrary to the scriptures, that “drunkards, adulterers and fornicators will inherit the kingdom of God.” (1 Cor. 6:9-10, Eph. 5:5-8, Gal. 5:19-21, 6:7-9, Rev. 21:8, 22:15)

Of course, if you are a Universalist like Bell, you are ignoring Christ’s warnings of the eternality of Hell and His call to holiness and the narrow road. You are misleading the masses and providing them with a false hope that they will one day get to Heaven… eventually.

For Rob Bell, the gate to eternal life is broad. Bell states in Love Wins, “What Jesus does is declare that he, and he alone, is saving everybody. And then he leaves the door way, way open.” According to Bell, so broad and wide is the narrow road, that you can take the broad road to Hell with the assurance that Jesus continues to “leave the door way, way open” until you decide to take the wide gate into Heaven. Contrasting this to the teachings of Jesus, this is an outright lie and a major deception!
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Humans.
Natural humans.
Natural life.

Human scientist changed his title from satanist. A fact.

Says DNA genesis was written about medically. As it left when garden nature bush combusted leaving the desert as end results.

Book of life bio nature.
Not in book of life. God mass products used for occult science.

Convert by human naming sources his self left in thoughts to the fire in conversion. We are not God.

Book says no man is God. For science is done by humans with minds of evil thoughts. Thought pretended that a high percentile body bio chemistry inside oxygen water mass with microbiome owned in their bodies owned the power energy that God O stone energy gained mass historic owned

Still lie about it today.

Water is its own substance.
Water is a mass.

It is not nuclear energy history.

Water not known.

Water cannot be described as non water.

Science terms describes non presence in thesis.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
People going where they believe they can go is universalism. Rob Bell: Populating Hell | Good Fight Ministries

I believe that is incorrect. Universalism says people all go to a good place. Also a person may choose to go someplace but God decides if that is OK with Him. He may very well preempt a person's decision.
In case you didn't know, God will not force people to go to Heaven or into the Kingdom of God but He can dispose of a person in less desirable ways.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
I believe that is incorrect. Universalism says people all go to a good place. Also a person may choose to go someplace but God decides if that is OK with Him. He may very well preempt a person's decision.

What would be the purpose of praying for family if universalism is in the BIble?
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
I believe that is incorrect. Universalism says people all go to a good place. Also a person may choose to go someplace but God decides if that is OK with Him. He may very well preempt a person's decision.
In case you didn't know, God will not force people to go to Heaven or into the Kingdom of God but He can dispose of a person in less desirable ways.

I believe that Sheol is hell because everyone knows about hell. There are only two beliefs in the world and you can see the same beliefs manifesting itself in different forms over and over. Salvation by what we do or salvation by what Christ did for us.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
What would be the purpose of praying for family if universalism is in the BIble?

I believe I didn't say universalism is in the Bible. There is no need to pray for someone in Heaven but family members are likely to be reincarnated. I have at least two members of my family that appear to be.
 
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