And my point is that the judge can make an exception any time he chooses.
Suspended sentences are often eventually punished.
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
And my point is that the judge can make an exception any time he chooses.
For the sake of argument, let's assume temporarily that what you say is true. Can you still not see that, ON THE ON THE WHOLE the law is still law and that as such it creates an orderly just society?Many of the laws in the Torah are not just. Functional, but not just. One may (or may not) be able to argue that the laws were more just than the surrounding societies of the time, but 'more just' is not the same thing as being just.
ROFL No they arentSuspended sentences are often eventually punished.
We;ve been through this how many times? We are not going to agree.Job believed in a coming Messiah because he mentioned his redeemer living and there being no mediator between him and God.
Laws are not inherently just. An orderly society created by enforcing laws is not inherently just. I would not call my society a just society, IndigoChild. It has sufficient justice to be different degrees of navigable, depending on who you are. But it still contains a considerable amount of injustice. And yet, I would still say that it is far more just that almost any ancient civilization.For the sake of argument, let's assume temporarily that what you say is true. Can you still not see that, ON THE ON THE WHOLE the law is still law and that as such it creates an orderly just society?
It was God who offered forgiveness. God at times worked through atonement sacrifices, and at other times worked through straight repentance. But never at any time was it necessary to believe in a coming messiah to receive forgiveness.
I think that law and order is a heck of a lot better than the kind of revenge that prevails in anarchy. Under law and order, murder and theft etc. are punished. In my book, that makes society a whole lot more just. It's an eye for an eye. Under revenge, it's two eyes and the eyes of your children for an eye. You don't have to have every law to be just for this to be true.Laws are not inherently just. An orderly society created by enforcing laws is not inherently just. I would not call my society a just society, IndigoChild. It has sufficient justice to be different degrees of navigable, depending on who you are. But it still contains a considerable amount of injustice. And yet, I would still say that it is far more just that almost any ancient civilization.
If your god exists, and he created the laws of the Torah, then he was effectively a human contemporary to that time in outlook and understanding and morality. Nothing more.
Nah. That's just a Christian idea. It's not in the Tanakh.The atonement sacrifices were types and shadows of the coming Messiah.
Nah. That's just a Christian idea. It's not in the Tanakh.
“But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live. Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?
I think that law and order is a heck of a lot better than the kind of revenge that prevails in anarchy. Under law and order, murder and theft etc. are punished. In my book, that makes society a whole lot more just.
The United States of America.I'm wondering, where do you live, that you feel your society is so unjust?
Nothing in the verse you quoted states that atonement sacrifices were shadows of what the Messiah would do.Ezekiel 18:21-23 is similar to the Christian idea of striving and trusting God. Doing what is just and right involves trusting God.
I'm not denying unjust laws exist. I'm saying that a just society as a whole can exist despite the occasional unjust law.I'm sorry, but are you denying the fact that unjust laws exist; both in their content and their systemic societal application?
The United States of America.
And I am saying that it cannot. That the best a society that is structured on a partially sound foundation can be, is partially just.I'm not denying unjust laws exist. I'm saying that a just society as a whole can exist despite the occasional unjust law.
All three of those statements are incorrect.I also live in the US, and you are mischaracterizing it. There is the occasional unjust law, but it is not typical. The US is a just society.
Nothing in the verse you quoted states that atonement sacrifices were shadows of what the Messiah would do.
Again with Job's redeemer.Striving and trusting God is related to the Messiah because Job believed that God was his redeemer and would walk the earth.
Again with Job's redeemer.
1. Job's redeemer did not exist
2. Job's redeemer was not the messiah or God.
No, the Messiah is not a redeemer.A Messiah is a Redeemer. The Lord laid upon Jesus the iniquity of us all. Job said that his redeemer would walk the earth, and Jesus walked the earth.
There is no evidence in the text that what Job said about the redeemer was a rumination.
No, the Messiah is not a redeemer.
Perfect sacrifice.
Tenakh/Hebrew Scripture
Leviticus 16 details how the priest is to give atonement for the sins of the people by shedding the blood of animals. These animals were substitutionary sacrifices. Moses's actions picture what Christ would do on the cross as the perfect sacrifice- deity in human form without sin and without blemish.
Br'it Chadashah/New Covenant
II Corinthians 5:21, For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
John 1:29, ...Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
I Peter 1:18-19, ...redeemed with...the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.
Unlike the blood of goats which had to be offered once a year in atonement, Christ takes away our sins for eternity.
Death by crucifixion.
Tenakh/Hebrew Scripture
Psalm 22:16, ...they pierced my hands and my feet. (crucifixion was not a method of death in Israel at the time that this was written hundreds of years before Christ.)
Br'it Chadashah/New Covenant
Matthew 27:35, And they crucified him...
It is not in the Tanakh if you are quoting NT verses!!!!The Old Testament sacrifices foreshadowed Jesus dying for our sins. Messianic Prophecies Fulfilled by Yeshua
The Tanakh also says that the Messiah would die by crucifixion.
It is not in the Tanakh if you are quoting NT verses!!!!
The only verse you quoted from the Tanakh was from Psalm 22:16, and you quoted a very bad translation of it. Here it is properly translated:
For dogs have encompassed me; a company of evil-doers have inclosed me; like a lion, they are at my hands and my feet.
Nothing there about crucifixion.