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Can religion exist separately from politics?

Can we separate religion from politics?

  • Yes, it is easy

    Votes: 7 23.3%
  • Yes, but it is difficult

    Votes: 9 30.0%
  • No, we cannot

    Votes: 14 46.7%

  • Total voters
    30
  • Poll closed .

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
The Constitution actually cannot prevent a state from adopting an official religion
Actually, it does. If you'd look at this stuff from the perspective of judges and legal experts, it would be illegal to have a state religion.
Amd many terms and phrases do not actually appear in the Constitution but they are still valid anyway. Like you won't f8nd "separation of powers" in the Constitution as worded yet the concept is still constitutional law.
Founded with "no official religion" does not mean "secular."
That does mean secular.
In other words, the Federal government has NO authority to interfere in religion, but frequently does, anyway.
It's had too though because too often there is child abuse, exploitation, dangerous practices, and other atrocities that must be stamped out.
 

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
I never said that the USA was founded as a Christian nation.

However, I noticed that you left out the second part of the first sentence of the First Amendment:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"
[...]
But is that true?

I've read a bit of history
The LDS used to be persecuted and shunned for the practice of polyamory
and polyamory is still illegal
even though some LDS considered it a religious practice


In the past, followers of many religions practiced:
  • human sacrifice
  • trial by combat
  • witch trials
  • burning heretics at the stake
  • crucification of criminals or 'false' prophets
Wouldn't your Congress prohibit such exercises?
Wouldn't your courts punish such exercises with prison, or worse?


It seems to me that, once again, the lines in the sand
are not clear
because the sands are shifting
 
But is that true?

I've read a bit of history
The LDS used to be persecuted and shunned for the practice of polyamory
and polyamory is still illegal
even though some LDS considered it a religious practice


In the past, followers of many religions practiced:
  • human sacrifice
  • trial by combat
  • witch trials
  • burning heretics at the stake
  • crucification of criminals or 'false' prophets
Wouldn't your Congress prohibit such exercises?
Wouldn't your courts punish such exercises with prison, or worse?


It seems to me that, once again, the lines in the sand
are not clear
because the sands are shifting

I'm not sure how Government can legitimately ban polygamy, as tasteless as it may seem.

Murder (human sacrifice) and trial-by-combat are a different story, altogether, as those are civil crimes, as well.
 

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
I'm not sure how Government can legitimately ban polygamy, as tasteless as it may seem.
The US government once banned interracial marriage.
Some US state governments still ban homosexual marriage.

It seems to me like any kind of marriage could be banned
I'm not sure if that's legitimate or not
but it's the law


Murder (human sacrifice) and trial-by-combat are a different story, altogether, as those are civil crimes, as well.
Yes, they are.
So religion is not protected
when the government decides
to make something a crime
 
The US government once banned interracial marriage.
Some US state governments still ban homosexual marriage.

It seems to me like any kind of marriage could be banned
I'm not sure if that's legitimate or not
but it's the law



Yes, they are.
So religion is not protected
when the government decides
to make something a crime

Legitimate religions do NOT practice human sacrifice. And again, these are also crimes in the criminal code.

Gay marriage is legal in every state in the USA.
 

janesix

Active Member
It seems to me that a lot about religion concerns society as a whole:
Organizing as a community, choosing who belongs and who does not;
who prays when, and with whom;
how men and women are supposed to act at home, or in public;
how to raise a child, and what to teach it.
Telling people what are good acts, and what is bad;
watching them, judging them, praising them, and punishing them.

A lot about politics also concerns society as a whole:
What is legal, what is illegal; watching them, judging them, punishing them, hurting them.
Who is allowed, who isn't; who is in power, and who is its victim.
How people are to organize, choosing who belongs and who does not;
what a community, a belief, an ideology, a religion, is allowed to do.


Do you think they can easily be separated?

How would you separate religion (or lack of it) from politics?
They are too intertwined. Will never happen. I'm not sure it needs to happen though.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Were the kings not chosen by your God?
It would look like to me as if the God of Israel used to be very political.

The 'people wanted Kings' ( I suppose because surrounding nations had them ) and the first King 'Saul" was chosen by God.
Remember: God was only governing over the one nation: ancient nation of ancient Israel.
We do have separation of 'church and state ' so to speak as found at 2 Chronicles 26:16-21
The king ( political ) was Not to interfere with the priests ( religious ) duties.
and the priests ( religious ) were Not to interfere with the kings ( political ) duties.

Remember: in Eden the Law of the Land, so to speak, was Not to eat from the forbidden tree.
That would be a political law, or God's theocratic law.
Not the so-called 'theocracy' modern definition of today meaning rule by clergy class. That is different from God's Law in Eden.

We find that Now God as definitely chosen Jesus to be King for a thousand years over Earth - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Legitimate religions do NOT practice human sacrifice. And again, these are also crimes in the criminal code.............................
Yes, even under Israel's temporary Constitution of the Mosaic Law human sacrifice was Not to take place -> Jeremiah 32:34-35; Ezekiel 23:37
 

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
Legitimate religions do NOT practice human sacrifice.
Human sacrifice was practiced
by the Native Mexicans (Aztecs)
by the (Pagan) Romans
by the Punics/Carthaginians and the ancient Canaanites
by the Celts and Germanic peoples
by many others probably, it was a very ancient custom

If they were alive, do you think they would beg to differ with you about this?

Even today, governments sacrifice people for war, economy etc.

And again, these are also crimes in the criminal code.
Yes. the government does not protect religions from the criminal code.
They have to agree to whatever

Gay marriage is legal in every state in the USA.
I didn't know that. Does every religion agree with this?
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Yes. Politics has nothing to do with 99% of things in religion. It has no effect on how I pray, what I pray, to whom pray, when I pray, what I eat, what I wear (unless you're in bonkers France), where I worship, which holidays I celebrate....

Religion in politics strikes this Brit as weird. Tony Blair had to hide his Catholicism while he was PM.
Whereas in the USA he would proudly have declared it no doubt - but then we aren't so religiously inclined these days - fortunately. :oops:
 

Different Mind

New Member
It seems to me that a lot about religion concerns society as a whole:
Organizing as a community, choosing who belongs and who does not;
who prays when, and with whom;
how men and women are supposed to act at home, or in public;
how to raise a child, and what to teach it.
Telling people what are good acts, and what is bad;
watching them, judging them, praising them, and punishing them.

A lot about politics also concerns society as a whole:
What is legal, what is illegal; watching them, judging them, punishing them, hurting them.
Who is allowed, who isn't; who is in power, and who is its victim.
How people are to organize, choosing who belongs and who does not;
what a community, a belief, an ideology, a religion, is allowed to do.


Do you think they can easily be separated?

How would you separate religion (or lack of it) from politics?

Religion and Politics Normally only Collide because the human factor seeks requirement of it; Unless People seek private times All Things Required in Life will be forced into one factor. This is for the Mindfulness of the Oneness is always a Conclusive Thought of the Political Mind's.
 
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