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Christians. Heaven and hell

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I "stole" this from another thread in hopes to get a straight forward answer.

If you believe that we all deserve hell (separation from God) because of adam and eve, how does it sit with you thousands of kids who die will not be with God?

I'm assuming JW doesn't believe in universal salvation so I'm especially interested in what they say "too."

On that note do muslims who wish to converse as well, and bahai believe in universal salvation (union with God).

This is going by Bible, quran, and bahai scrpitures. Please include your opinions and be willing to discuss them.
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
No it does NOT make sense. Everyone is responsible for THEIR OWN sins. God does not punish anyone because Adam sinned or their parents senned. The Bible says ALL have sinned. And the Bible says the penalty for sin is death, not separation from God or eternal torture.
 

alypius

Active Member
If you believe that we all deserve hell (separation from God) because of adam and eve, how does it sit with you thousands of kids who die will not be with God?

If all humans deserve hell (as members of a fallen race) then shouldn't the expected outcome be that absolutely every human is separated from God eternally?
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
That's the argument made by the other thread. Makes sense
You should ask in that other thread for support of it.
To the best of my knowledge there are no Bible verses that support "Age of Accountability" with out a fair amount of mental gymnastics...
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
No it does NOT make sense. Everyone is responsible for THEIR OWN sins. God does not punish anyone because Adam sinned or their parents senned. The Bible says ALL have sinned. And the Bible says the penalty for sin is death, not separation from God or eternal torture.
Except that god DOES in fact punish children for the sins of their parents.
clear up to TEN GENERATIONS of children:

Deuteronomy 23:2 KJV
A ******* shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord.​
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
You should ask in that other thread for support of it.
To the best of my knowledge there are no Bible verses that support "Age of Accountability" with out a fair amount of mental gymnastics...

Oh. Sorry. The argument in the thread was since we have inherited sin because of our "parents", children are doomed to hell (separation from god) because of the sin of their parents. They're not old enough to be accountable for sin so they're stuck in their parents sin without means of forgiveness.
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
Oh. Sorry. The argument in the thread was since we have inherited sin because of our "parents", children are doomed to hell (separation from god) because of the sin of their parents. They're not old enough to be accountable for sin so they're stuck in their parents sin without means of forgiveness.
Ah.
I see.
Well, Deuteronomy 23:2 seems to confirm it
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
Oh. Sorry. The argument in the thread was since we have inherited sin because of our "parents", children are doomed to hell (separation from god) because of the sin of their parents. They're not old enough to be accountable for sin so they're stuck in their parents sin without means of forgiveness.
i would of said ,children are doomed to death ,as we all are
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I "stole" this from another thread in hopes to get a straight forward answer.

If you believe that we all deserve hell (separation from God) because of adam and eve, how does it sit with you thousands of kids who die will not be with God?

I'm assuming JW doesn't believe in universal salvation so I'm especially interested in what they say "too."

On that note do muslims who wish to converse as well, and bahai believe in universal salvation (union with God).

This is going by Bible, quran, and bahai scrpitures. Please include your opinions and be willing to discuss them.
When I was one of them they based "all kids go to Heaven" on Mark 10:13-16. But they never did give an age limit.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Does bahai scripture differentiate the benefits and consequences of those who believe and those who do not?

How/when/why/who aside for a moment.
I do not believe that God necessarily punishes us or rewards us, although in some cases God might do that. Humans are rewarded or punished by the choices they make and actions that result from those choices. So we are rewarded or punished according to our own actions. We are rewarded when we do good deeds and we are punished when we do bad or evil deeds. The good or evil we did in this world carries over to the afterlife since we will be exactly what we have become by living in this world.

There are rewards and punishments in both this world and in the afterlife. In fact, the structure of world stability and order has been reared upon, and will continue to be sustained by, the twin pillars of reward and punishment. If we do good deeds in this world we are rewarded and if we do bad or evil deeds we are punished. Likewise, in the afterlife we will be rewarded for what we have done good and punished for what we have done bad deeds. It is not God who will be handing out the rewards and punishments, they will simply accrue to us as the result of our actions here.

People will reap what they sow, so even if they get away with evil acts in this world and do not get punished by the justice system, they will be punished in the afterlife. How God will factor in to that punishment I do not know. Some evil people will not even realize they are evil after they die, so they will simply continue to suffer in their evil state unless someone helps them, although there is no guarantee of that.

We all have free will in this world in order to shape our destiny and prepare our souls for the afterlife, but we will not have free will in the afterlife. Where we wind up will be according to who we were in this world, what we did with our lives. That is why it is so important not to waste our lives. It is not really beliefs that are important, it is actions. The importance of beliefs is that help us to know what good actions are, according to God, who sets those standards.

Baha'is are enjoined not to do what we do for a reward in heaven but I believe there will be a reward for those who have recognized Baha'u'llah, in this life and the next life.

“It behoveth him to fix his gaze upon the fundamentals of His Faith, and to labor diligently for its propagation. Wholly for the sake of God he should proclaim His Message, and with that same spirit accept whatever response his words may evoke in his hearer. He who shall accept and believe, shall receive his reward; and he who shall turn away, shall receive none other than his own punishment.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 339
 
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Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I wonder how many Christians do not believe that the Bible reveals things that god did....:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Probably not very many, but I am not a Christian so I believe most of the Old Testament anthropomorphizes God.
The New Testament is closer to the truth about God but it still misses the mark when Paul confuses Jesus with God. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
When I was one of them they based "all kids go to Heaven" on Mark 10:13-16. But they never did give an age limit.
15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

That is pure blarney.
Every day I read more things in the Bible that are obviously false, making me wonder how much of it is actually true..
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
Probably not very many, but I am not a Christian so I believe most of the Old Testament anthropomorphizes God.
The New Testament is closer to the truth about God but it still misses the mark when Paul confuses Jesus with God. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
I realize now that I should have been more specific.:rolleyes::rolleyes:
I assumed that with the word "Bible" being used not once, but twice, in the post I replied to and that I presented a verse from the very same Bible....:rolleyes::rolleyes:


:p:p
More smilies makes me the winner!
Now I must fly on home and claim my victory!!
 
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