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How can a Jew reject Jesus as the Messiah?

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Hebrew Roots teaching is not biblical because Jesus Christ is the name of God the Son in English. Hebrew Roots Movement Attacks The Name Of Jesus
Skywalker -- I was doing a little research on the trinity and how a trinitarian figures there are three persons in (of?) one God. It doesn't make sense. No matter how it is explained, even if it seems slightly rational -- it does not make sense. It's almost like a conspiracy theory.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
How could Jesus not be God if he pre-existed in heaven with God and created the material world?

John 1:3-7
:D

Yup. All of that fits.

So here are the list of clues again including the new ones:

Who or what:
  1. pre-existed in heaven with God AND
  2. created the material world AND
  3. Is Not a God AND
  4. Is life AND
  5. Is the light of mankind
???
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
No No... It's a riddle.

Who or what:
  1. pre-existed in heaven with God AND
  2. created the material world AND
  3. Is Not a God
???

Remember, Paul was Jewish; that's the last hint I'll give. :D

Christianity and Judaism existed as one in the start. The current technicality of them being two different religions with different beliefs about Jesus and the Trinity and the Incarnation didn't exist at the time. The New Covenant is more focused n relationship than law, but they are in a sense the same covenant, just like in a certain sense the Old and New Testament are the same Testament. Christianity and Judaism - Wikipedia

Christianity is rooted in Second Temple Judaism, but the two religions diverged in the first centuries of the Christian Era. Christianity emphasizes correct belief (or orthodoxy), focusing on the New Covenant as mediated through Jesus Christ,[1] as recorded in the New Testament. Judaism places emphasis on correct conduct (or orthopraxy),[2][3][4] focusing on the Mosaic covenant, as recorded in the Torah and Talmud.

Christians believe in individual salvation from sin through receiving Jesus Christ as their Lord (God) and savior. Jews believe in individual and collective participation in an eternal dialogue with God through tradition, rituals, prayers and ethical actions. Christianity generally believes in a Triune God, one person of whom became human. Judaism emphasizes the Oneness of God and rejects the Christian concept of God in human form.

Messianic Prophecies Fulfilled by Yeshua

A new covenant. Exchanging the law for grace.
Tenakh/Hebrew Scripture
Jeremiah 31:31-34, Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: but this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people...they shall know me...for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Br'it Chadashah/New Covenant
Galatians 3:22, But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

II Corinthians 5:19, To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them...

Romans 7:6, 7 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law...
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Skywalker -- I was doing a little research on the trinity and how a trinitarian figures there are three persons in (of?) one God. It doesn't make sense. No matter how it is explained, even if it seems slightly rational -- it does not make sense. It's almost like a conspiracy theory.

Colossians 2:9 uses the term the Godhead. What does Colossians 2:9 mean?

The Godhead seems confusing to us because we have limited understandings. The plurality within the Godhead involves different types of prayer depending on whom you are praying to. To Whom Should We Pray in the Godhead?

To Whom Should We Pray in the Godhead?
By David J. Stewart
I don't find any certain command in the Bible concerning which Person of the Godhead to pray to. Certainly, we must realize that to pray to Jesus, the Father, or the Holy Spirit is to pray to God, for there is only ONE God (Deuteronomy 6:4). The Apostle Paul speaks of the "mystery of God" in Colossians 2:2. The Godhead is a mystery indeed, but we believe it because the Bible teaches it, and the Holy Spirit bares witness with our spirit that it is true. God has manifest (or revealed) Himself to mankind in the Persons of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
I pray to all three Persons of the Godhead, usually depending on the circumstances. When I pray for guidance, comfort, or power, I usually pray to the Holy Spirit because the Bible mentions the Holy Spirit with those things. If I want something from God, I'll usually pray to the Father, asking “In Jesus name” as the Gospel of John directs us to do so. Daily, I speak with the Lord Jesus, just as I would a friend, Who knows and understands what it means to suffer and be rejected and despised of men. I don't think it really matters to which Person of the Godhead we choose to pray, just as long as we understand that we are praying to ONE God and that we must come to the Father through the Son, i.e., in Jesus' name. Jesus said in John 14:6 that we must come to the Father through Him, "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." Jesus is one with the Father, and the Holy Spirit lives within the believer's heart. The Holy Spirit is God within us. Thus, we pray TO the Father, THROUGH the Son, IN the Spirit.
This is not to say that we cannot pray directly to the Holy Spirit, knowing that He is the Spirit of Christ (Romans 8:9), or that we cannot pray to the Son of God, Who is called the “Everlasting Father” in Isaiah 9:6. The Godhead (Trinity) is a mystery that unbelievers cannot grasp, because it is spiritually discerned. Unbelievers cannot reconcile their finite human thinking with the eternal truth of God. But as true Christians, we understand (1st Corinthians 2:14-17; Luke 7:35).
Here is a wonderful quote from Dr. Jack Hyles' excellent book, EXPLORING PRAYER WITH JACK HYLES . . .
I remember one night years ago when Dr. John R. Rice and I were at a Bible conference together. Before he preached, he prayed something like this, "Oh, Father, breathe on me. Lord Jesus, help me to preach tonight. Holy Spirit, give me power."
After the service a young preacher came to Dr. Rice and said, "You made a serious mistake while you prayed to God the Father, then you prayed to Jesus, then you prayed to the Holy Spirit." He continued, "The proper procedure is to pray to the Father through the Son in the Spirit."
Dr. Rice looked at him with a sheepish grin and replied, "Son, I've been in the family long enough until I know all of Them personally. I just talk to whichever One I need to talk to at the time." The old giant patted the young man on the shoulder and went his way.
There is nothing wrong with the child of God saying, "Jesus, I love You," "Father, supply my needs," and "Holy Spirit, give me power." Sometimes we can be so busy being theologically correct that we can be spiritually empty! Oh, for the heartbeat of the Christian faith! Oh, for the lilt and joy! Oh, for the tears and the burden! Oh, for the warmth and the tenderness!
SOURCE: Dr. Jack Hyles, EXPLORING PRAYER WITH JACK HYLES, chapter 35
The most important thing is that we understand it is only on the basis of Christ's blood sacrifice that we are entitled to approach the throne of grace (Hebrews 4:15,16). Amen!
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
How could Jesus not be God if he pre-existed in heaven with God and created the material world?

John 1:3-7
Why not? After all, he was the Son of God and when in heaven he was next to God. Two persons, not three no matter how you look at it.
Again I'm going to tell you: the idea (fabrication) that there are three (not one, two, or four) persons each called God separate and distinct from one another yet equal to each other does not (I repeat -- does not) make sense. I'll get back hopefully to that later.
But now please read as carefully as possible:
"An Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible commentary notes:
This second theos could also be translated 'divine' as the construction indicates "a qualitative sense for theos."
And that's all I'll say for now about that, hoping you continue learning.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I think I should get a prize for getting through over 60 pages lol.

Anyway, I’m glad God helped me divorce a deity from a deity character. No one in the Bible is real. They may be based on real people, but they are characters.
Not exactly sure what you mean here, but after much consideration, I have come to a different conclusion. In fact, the longer I'm here and talking about it, it makes more and more sense that the Bible is true.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Yes, Kermit's messages WERE consistent with Torah teaching unlike Jesus's! Good point!

Context DOES matter -- just like how the context of Isaiah establishes that the servant is Israel. So true!
There are analogies and symbols.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Christianity and Judaism existed as one in the start. The current technicality of them being two different religions with different beliefs about Jesus and the Trinity and the Incarnation didn't exist at the time.
Well, I don't have time to go over all the posts now, but may I ask you how you think Christianity and Judaism existed as one in the start?
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
:D

Yup. All of that fits.

So here are the list of clues again including the new ones:

Who or what:
  1. pre-existed in heaven with God AND
  2. created the material world AND
  3. Is Not a God AND
  4. Is life AND
  5. Is the light of mankind
???


How could Jesus not be God if he pre existed in heaven and created the material world? Misconceptions Concerning Christ — By David J. Stewart

Jesus is Almighty God

Perhaps you ask, “can a person be saved if he or she doesn’t believe that Jesus is God?” The Answer is that a saved person WILL believe that Jesus is God. A saved person WILL believe in the virgin birth of Christ. A saved person WILL believe that Christ died on the cross. Now when I accepted Christ as my Savior as a teenager, I had never heard of the deity of Christ. I didn’t know that Jesus was God until a few years later, BUT when I learned that Jesus was God I readily accepted that truth and have never doubted it one time since. The Holy Spirit bared witness with my spirit that this was the truth. If you were to tell me that you do NOT believe Jesus is God, then I would have no doubt that you are NOT saved. No way! Listen to the Words of Christ, “I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM he, ye shall die in your sins” (John 8:24). If you look in your King James Bible, the pronoun “he” is in italics. Italics were added by the 48 King James translators because they felt it was necessary to add clarity to the original meaning. One language doesn’t necessarily mean the same thing in another language so the translators had the great responsibility of making sure that the proper original meaning was conveyed into the translated Bible. The added words were put into italics by the translators out of fear of making a mistake. They left the final decision up to us—This was very scholarly of them because they wanted to be as honest and accurate as possible in their translating work. This allows us to decipher the meaning for ourselves without any translator’s bias. You won’t find any italics in other versions of the Bible—They all foolishly assume they are correct. The result is much heresy and errors. The King James Bible is a beautiful work of art and scholarship. So what John 8:24 literally says is “I AM.” Jesus was claiming to be the “I AM” of Exodus 3:14, “And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.” If you don’t believe me then take a look at John 8:57,58, “Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.” Jesus claimed that He existed before Abraham was ever born! This made the Jews very angry because they knew what Jesus was claiming—to be God Almighty. They began to stone Jesus, “Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by” (John 8:59). Jesus said that the person who does not believe that He is the “I AM” will die in their sins. Do you believe Jesus is the “I AM?”

The belief in God the Father doesn't disprove Jesus being God.

Misconceptions Concerning the Godhead (Trinity)

The doctrine of the trinity is often attacked by false religion and the unbelieving. The word “trinity” is NOT in the Bible, but the word “Godhead” most certainly is. This doctrine cannot be denied for it is taught throughout the Bible. “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and WE will come unto him, and make our abode with him” (John 14:23). Who is “We?” God the Father and God the Son of course. When you receive Jesus as your Savior, you get the full package. If you are saved, God the Father and God the Son live in your body in the form of God the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit merges and unites with your dead spirit at salvation and you are “quickened” or “made alive.” “And you hath he QUICKENED, who were dead in trespasses and sins” (Ephesians 2:1). If you are saved, you don’t have a problem believing in the trinity because He lives in your body. I say “He” because there is only ONE GOD. “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is ONE LORD” (Deuteronomy 6:4). There is only ONE God. Those who believe in the trinity are sometimes accused of being “polytheists” (a belief in multiple god’s). This of course is far from the truth.

The Bible teaches that there is only ONE true and living God. However, we cannot dismiss the fact that this ONE God has revealed Himself to mankind as God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Three distinct persons all equal in power, might and knowledge. “But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the SPIRIT of CHRIST, he is none of his” (Romans 8:9). This Scripture is clear—if you do NOT have the Holy Spirit living within your body—you are NOT a Child of God. Notice that the Holy Spirit is called the “Spirit of Christ.” This is simply because they are both one in the same Spirit of the same ONE God. Jesus Christ lives within my body as the Holy Spirit. They are the same God, yet two distinct persons. Notice the Bible prophecy concerning Christ in Isaiah 9:6-7, “For unto us a child is born (Jesus) , unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder (during the Millennium): and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The EVERLASTING FATHER, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever…” What a wonderful promise from God! One can only await with great anticipation for the day when Christ will reign and the world will be under His perfect government—no more political scandals, no more corruption, no more bribes, no more favoritism, no more injustice, no more treason, no more lies, no more taking advantage of the less fortunate. What a day that will be!

Notice the phrase, “the EVERLASTING FATHER” in Isaiah 9:6. Jesus is called the “Everlasting Father.” Jesus and the Father are ONE. Jesus is as much the Father as the Father is the Father, yet they are two distinct persons. “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the FATHER, and of the SON, and of the HOLY GHOST” (Matthew 28:19). Three persons, ONE God. If you are saved, you believe this—You may not understand it, but you wholeheartedly believe it. “But wisdom is justified of all her children” (Luke 7:35). Are you a Child of Wisdom, a Child of God? Notice the powerful words of Romans 1:20, “ For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and GODHEAD; so that they are without excuse.” We covered this in an earlier chapter. “Godhead” refers to the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The invisible spirit world is clearly seen by the things which are made. This means that every person knew at one time in their life that there was a God. It is only when a person fails to glorify God in their life that their foolish heart is darkened and grows cold.

I don’t believe anyone is born an atheist. Somewhere at some point in their life, they knew God. Life and people can sometimes be cruel. This often turns many people away from God and His Word. They fail to differentiate between God and religion. God is God and religion is religion—don’t confuse the Two. I’m saying, don’t blame God because man fails you! Religion can often be a very bad thing. The great preacher and pastor, D.L. Moody, once said, “People have just enough religion to be miserable.” This is so true. Let’s take a look at another Scripture concerning the “Godhead.” “For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the GODHEAD bodily” (Colossians 2:9). Jesus came to this earth as God (the Son) in the Flesh, but He was also the Father and the Holy Spirit in the flesh. Jesus had the absolute fullness of the Holy Spirit, “For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God GIVETH NOT THE SPIRIT BY MEASURE UNTO HIM” (John 3:34). Jesus had unlimited power while on the earth. He said He could have called twelve legions of angels to come to His rescue if He simply spoke the word (Matthew 26:53). Jesus had the Holy Spirit “without measure.” This is amazing!

As Believers, the Holy Spirit “indwelt” us at salvation. That is to say, the Godhead (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) moved into our body and united with our spirit (which was dead). We became a Child of God, a member of the body (family) of Christ. He united with our spirit in a spiritual marriage. However, even though God now lives in our body, we need to daily “yield” our will to obey His will. To do so brings the “fullness” of the Holy Spirit. You see, the Holy Spirit can’t fill our mind and heart if we are full of ourselves. If we want the fullness of the spirit, we must empty our minds of the world and fill it with God’s Word. We must keep our heart close to the Lord in truth, gratitude, humility and holy fear. The Christian life can only be lived ON PURPOSE. This requires a sincere desire on our part to live according to God’s Word. Many people do not want to live for God. However, Jesus had the 100% fullness of the Holy Spirit. Nowhere in the Bible is it ever said of any other man that he had the Holy Spirit “without measure”—This was only said concerning our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Truly this was the Son of God, God incarnate.

Jesus is life and the light of mankind, and that's why He is God. The knowledge of Christ even in a very primitive way, is in the heart of every person. John 1:9

There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.

Matthew 16:27 describes Jesus as a judge. How can Jesus be a judge if he's an archangel or a junior deity?

The Son of man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels and recompense to every man according to his works
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
There's a good chance that we inherited sin and death from Adam, because Jesus is called the second Adam, and Jesus saves us from sin and death. I believe that father in heaven is a reference to Yahweh. Jesus is not a junior deity because he told the Samaritan woman that he was the Messiah and that means that he accepted worship.
To bow before someone does not necessarily mean worship. To ask someone with power to do something for you does not necessarily mean you worship them.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Well, I don't have time to go over all the posts now, but may I ask you how you think Christianity and Judaism existed as one in the start?

Believing in Jesus and following the Torah are not mutually exclusive. In this dispensation of history, they are viewed as different faiths because of the historical division between Judaism and Christianity. They can be different faiths, because being a Christian by itself or following the Tanakh by itself, are faiths in their own sense. The Gentile believers didn't adopt the laws of the Torah because it wasn't relevant to their relationship with God. It's similar to God gives people different gifts.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
The Holy Spirit manifested Himself in the form of a dove during the baptism of Christ.
The dove is not a person. Holy spirit is not a person. Like a son comes from a father, holy spirit comes from God. But it is not a person. A son is a person. Holy spirit is not a person. The Bible never says that the Father, Son and holy spirit are 3 persons equal to the other and one entity. Elohim does not mean God is composed of 3 persons.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Believing in Jesus and following the Torah are not mutually exclusive. In this dispensation of history, they are viewed as different faiths because of the historical division between Judaism and Christianity. They can be different faiths, because being a Christian by itself or following the Tanakh by itself, are faiths in their own sense. The Gentile believers didn't adopt the laws of the Torah because it wasn't relevant to their relationship with God. It's similar to God gives people different gifts.
Judaism and Christianity were not the same when Jesus was on the earth. There were those who believed Jesus, and there were those that were not in harmony with him.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Christianity and Judaism existed as one in the start.

Ok....

The current technicality of them being two different religions with different beliefs about Jesus and the Trinity and the Incarnation didn't exist at the time.

Right. It's like there were different stories about Jesus floating around, and then at some point they were combined. ;)

The New Covenant is more focused n relationship than law, but they are in a sense the same covenant, just like in a certain sense the Old and New Testament are the same Testament. Christianity and Judaism - Wikipedia
Yeah-yeah, we've been through this. All of that is refuted by Jeremiah 31:36.

But if you want to understand what Paul is saying and what John is saying then you need to look at it from a Jewish perspective.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Believing in Jesus and following the Torah are not mutually exclusive. In this dispensation of history, they are viewed as different faiths because of the historical division between Judaism and Christianity. They can be different faiths, because being a Christian by itself or following the Tanakh by itself, are faiths in their own sense. The Gentile believers didn't adopt the laws of the Torah because it wasn't relevant to their relationship with God. It's similar to God gives people different gifts.
Again, may I ask you how you think Christianity and Judaism existed as one in the start? How were they one in the start? The above does not explain or back up your assertion that Christianity and Judaism existed as one in the start. So how were they one in the start?
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
The dove is not a person. Holy spirit is not a person. Like a son comes from a father, holy spirit comes from God. But it is not a person. A son is a person. Holy spirit is not a person. The Bible never says that the Father, Son and holy spirit are 3 persons equal to the other and one entity. Elohim does not mean God is composed of 3 persons.

The Holy Spirit is not a wizard, a she, or an it. The Bible describes the Holy Spirit as a he. That indicates personhood.The Holy Spirit, our Loving Friend -by Evangelist John R. Rice

II. The Holy Spirit's Comfort, Guidance and Help

In John, chapter 14, verses 15 to 17, Jesus said:

"If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."

Up until the resurrection of Christ, the Spirit of God was with Christians. Since He met with the disciples in the Upper Room in John, chapter 20, and came and breathed on them and said, "Receive ye the Holy Ghost," the Spirit of God moved into the bodies of Christians.

That was foretold in John 7, verses 37-39:

"In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"

Now Jesus has risen from the dead. Now the Holy Spirit has moved into the bodies of Christians. Now He dwells not only with Christians, but within Christians.

And Romans 8:9 says, "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Every saved person has the Spirit of God living in him.

First Corinthians 6:19 and 20 says,

"What? Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's."

The sweet Spirit of God lives within you. Your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit. The Scripture says the body should be presented a living sacrifice, and kept holy for the Lord.

Now let us come back to this sweet Scripture in John. What about the Holy Spirit within us? John 14:16 says:

"I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter."

Another? Yes. They are saying, "Jesus, are You going away? Jesus, will You leave us like poor sheep without a Shepherd?" "No," said Jesus, "I am going to leave another Comforter."

Jesus is saying, "The Spirit of God will be better for you than Me." If Jesus was on earth now, I would go across the seas, I would go anywhere in the world, to see Him. But if I could get there, there would be great crowds of people, and I might not be able to see Him. Oh, it may be that one time I could kiss His hand or His feet, but I wouldn't get to be with Him much.

Oh, but the sweet Spirit of God comes - another One like Jesus. He now becomes within us - Christ's personal Representative. In fact, Jesus said in the Great Commission, "And, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world" - meaning through the Spirit of God.

Again, the Scripture says:

"Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. So that we may boldy say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me."

Thank God, He never leaves us! The Spirit of God is Christ in you, the hope of glory. "Another Comforter" - isn't that sweet?

1. The Holy Spirit Is Our Comforter

Now the Holy Spirit is in us. Christians ought to rejoice in that blessed truth. He is within us. What is He? A Comforter! And how we do need comfort!

I saw in a comic strip where a little boy got hurt. He was crying and looking for his daddy but couldn't find him. He hushed crying until he finally opened the door and found where his daddy was, then he went on with his crying.

We too need Someone to comfort us in the sorrows of this world. Jesus said, "In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." And "Man that is born of a woman is of few days, and full of trouble," says Job. That is right; trouble everywhere. Paul went back and preached to the young converts saved in his meetings that "we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God" (Acts 14:22).

The Psalmist David said, "The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord... . Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down" (Ps. 37:23,24). Trouble is natural in this poor old, wicked world. We ourselves are sinful, frail and weak. But here is comfort; we are not like the lost world - we have a Comforter.

Dr. George W. Truett tells about an unsaved man and a lovely Christian woman who had a little child whom they loved so much. But the child got sick and died. The father said to Dr. Truett, "My wife is so frail and weak, I don't think she can live through it." But they found that this good Christian woman had comfort in her heart, and she said to the lost husband, "Daddy, I am so sorry for you. You don't have the comfort I have."

A Christian can have comfort in every sorrow, light in all darkness, an answer to all his questions, strength in every temptation. The sweet Comforter of God, the Holy Spirit of God, has come to be our Comforter.

The Bible calls Him that several times and we would be wrong to make light of it. I read you where He said, "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which preceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me." And "he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance." And in John 15:26, "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which preceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me. Then again in John 16:7,8, "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment."

We had better think of it like God does. Another Comforter. The Comforter is come. He is from God and will guide you into truth. This Comforter will convict the world. The Comforter - a wonderful name for a wonderful Person!

In Fort Worth, Texas, years ago, I went to see a woman. I dreaded to go. It was a time of great depression. The father could not find work. The father thought, "I will get out somewhere, even if I starve so they can get welfare." So he left.

That frail woman went to work. She worked and worked hard, until she took T.B. and was bedfast. They had two children - a little girl 15 and a boy 14.

And the girl died, I am going to preach the funeral of that little girl. I must face that woman who has lost her husband and was a victim of T.B., now her little girl has died. We must take the mother in our arms and carry her to look into the casket and say good-bye to her girl! I must say words of comfort at that funeral. What will I say?

I did not need to fret about it. I went into that sickroom and she took my hand in both of hers and said, "Brother Rice, the Lord Jesus said, 'I will not leave you comfortless; I will come to you.'" She smiled, along with the tears, and said, "Brother Rice, He came! He came, Brother Rice!"

Oh, the Comforter!

I so many, many times, in the midst of a world of trouble, have found comfort in Jesus. I don't wonder that the Psalms speak about songs in the night. Yes, in the nighttime, the sweet Comforter can be your Comforter. Whatever trouble may come, we can have His comfort.

Never lonely, if the Saviour Walk beside me all the way; Never feeling lost, unwanted, Darkest night or drearest day. Never stumbling, tho' my pathway Oft is stony, oft is rough. But His angels' arms around me, Underneath me, hold me up.

A Christian can have comfort. Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit can be with us all the time.

He is the Comforter, but that is not all.


2. He is the Guide

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth" (John 16:13). How wonderful that has been to me through these years! I work hard. I have six or seven thousand books in my library, but I don't have much time to read. I preach much of the time twice a day, often three times a day, edit THE SWORD, run a business with some ninety employees, am in conferences everywhere, answer heavy mail, have a broadcast. So I can't do the studying that some men can do. But, thank God, the Bible has become more and more an open Book. There is a light from Heaven on the page of this holy Book when I come relying on the Spirit. I ask and He guides me into truth.

I have written comments on every chapter in the Bible and on every principal verse. The sweet Spirit of God has someway helped me understand spiritual truths.

You can have a Guide. Not only a guide in doctrine, not only a guide in the truth, but a guide about what to do. The Spirit can show us what to do. In Acts, chapter 16, Paul said, "I want to preach in Bithynia," but the Spirit suffered him not. He said, "Well, maybe in this little province Asia, in Asia Minor we can preach. But the Spirit refused. So they waited and prayed and in the night there came a vision of a man from Macedonia, holding out his empty arms saying, "Come over into Macedonia, and help us." They assuredly gathered that the Spirit of God was calling, so they went. You can have guidance day by day.

Philip was in a great revival in Samaria and the Spirit of the Lord caught him away to go down to talk to that Ethiopian eunuch. You can have leadership from God. He is the Guide to all truth.

Not only that, but He can bring to your remembrance "whatsoever things I have said unto you." The Holy Spirit has an affinity for the Bible. If you learn the Bible, the Spirit of God brings it to mind when you need it. You have to study it, you have to hide it in your heart, but the sweet Spirit of God will bring to your remembrance what Jesus said, and you can have help.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Again, may I ask you how you think Christianity and Judaism existed as one in the start? How were they one in the start? The above does not explain or back up your assertion that Christianity and Judaism existed as one in the start. So how were they one in the start?

They were one in the start by the practices of what we would call today Judaism and Christianity, existed in the same faith. Jewish Christian - Wikipedia

Jewish Christians (Hebrew: יהודים נוצרים‎) were the followers of a Jewish religious sect that emerged in Judea during the late Second Temple period (first-century). The sect integrated the belief of Jesus as the prophesied Messiah and his teachings into the Jewish faith, including the observance of the Jewish law. Jewish Christianity is the foundation of Early Christianity, which later developed into Christianity. Christianity started with Jewish eschatological expectations, and it developed into the worship of a deified Jesus after his earthly ministry, his crucifixion, and the post-crucifixion experiences of his followers. Modern scholarship is engaged in an ongoing debate as to the proper designation for Jesus' first followers. Many see the term Jewish Christians as anachronistic given that there is no consensus on the date of the birth of Christianity. Some modern scholars have suggested the designations "Jewish believers in Jesus" or "Jewish followers of Jesus" as better reflecting the original context.

The inclusion of non-Jews led to a growing split between Jewish Christians (i.e. the Jewish followers of Jesus) and non-Jewish Christians. From the latter, Nicene Christianity eventually arose, while mainstream Judaism developed into Rabbinic Judaism. Jewish Christians drifted apart from mainstream Judaism, eventually becoming a minority strand which had mostly disappeared by the fifth century. Jewish–Christian gospels have been lost except for fragments, so there is considerable uncertainty as to the scriptures used by this group.

The split of Christianity and Judaism took place during the first centuries CE.[1][2] While the First Jewish–Roman War and the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE were main events, the separation was a long-term process, in which the boundaries were not clear-cut.[1][2]
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Ok....



Right. It's like there were different stories about Jesus floating around, and then at some point they were combined. ;)


Yeah-yeah, we've been through this. All of that is refuted by Jeremiah 31:36.

But if you want to understand what Paul is saying and what John is saying then you need to look at it from a Jewish perspective.

Christianity and Judaism being classified as different religions now, and people saying Christianity is a relationship not a religion, doesn't mean that the two beliefs couldn't have ever existed in the same category. Messianic Jews sometimes say they are Jewish Christians. They describe themselves as two distinct bt not mutually exclusive, categories, in one.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
The Jewish messianic concept is not fully fleshed out in the biblical text, but neither is Judaism, nor has it ever been (by mainstream Jewish understanding). Judaism is built on twin foundational content -- the written biblical text and the complementary (and contemporary) oral law, and the explanations of each. So ideas like the messiah are more fully explored in the oral law and the commentaries. There are books and books by a variety of scholars and some of what each says might be seen as arguing with details others have said because a lot is interpretation and not a function of black-letter law.

In terms of the "messiah will die" -- this is something that exists in one understanding of one opinion about a possible messianic timeline. A national leader who inspires Jews through war time will be killed at the end of the war and replaced with a peace time leader. But even then, certain prophecies would have to be filled etc, and this is only one idea among many, one which even adherents say is not inevitable.
At this point I might as well tell you that I learned it is a comment in one of the Talmuds (probably the Babylonian) that the messiah would die. Leaves things open. If Jesus did not say what he did at Matthew 24 (nation rising against nation, war and pestilence happening), I might go along with your view that Jesus is not the messiah. It's interesting that so many disagree with what it all means.
 
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