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How can a Jew reject Jesus as the Messiah?

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
It doesn't mean that Jesus is equal to God, never did. Your idea and understanding of God is not what the Bible teaches. Want to give an explanation why Jesus said the Father is greater than he is? :)

Jesus submitted to the Father. When Jesus was on the earth only the Father knew when he would return.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I am equal in essence to the President, even though he has more authority than me. He's no more of a man than I am.
It's amazing, Skywalker, how it can be twisted. How about the ice, water, and steam idea? :)
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
There is a distinction between the role of Jesus and the role of the other members of the Trinity. Jesus incarnated, not God the Father or the Holy Spirit.
There's just no getting away from it. lol. Jesus said the Father is greater than he is. No getting away from it. I don't know about you, but if a person says someone is greater than he is, it means to me that the person is greater than he is.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
There's just no getting away from it. lol. Jesus said the Father is greater than he is. No getting away from it. I don't know about you, but if a person says someone is greater than he is, it means to me that the person is greater than he is.

What about the KJV supporting the divinity of Jesus? NIV Chips Away at Doctrine of Jesus Christ

Here is John 1:3 from the perverted New International Version of 2011, aka, NIV 2011...

John 1:3 (New International Version, ©2011)
3 THROUGH HIM all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. [emphasis added]
Now here is what the inspired and trustworthy King James Bible says...

John 1:3, “All things were made BY HIM; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” [emphasis added]

There is a big difference between the words “through” and “by,” evidenced irrefutably by the false teaching by Seventh Day Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses that Jesus didn't create anything of His own power; but rather, God the Father created all things THROUGH Christ. Do you see how they attack the deity of Christ? The NIV agrees with the false theology of Jehovah's Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists (both groups teach that God the Father created the universe THROUGH Jesus and not BY Him). The King James Bible teaches that ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM in John 1:3. Words are critically important.
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
I think you're correct to argue that not every aspect of David's life is to be mirrored in the life of the Messiah, but it's clear that there will be similarities, otherwise Ezekiel would not have prophesied the coming Messiah with the words 'David my servant'.
Yes, the mirror is that David was a righteous king.

My last point was made in response to your 'what?'. I'm interested to know whether you think of yourself as part of Jacob, or part of Israel.[/QUOTE]
Jacob and Israel are synonyms for the nation.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Yes, the mirror is that David was a righteous king.

My last point was made in response to your 'what?'. I'm interested to know whether you think of yourself as part of Jacob, or part of Israel.
Jacob and Israel are synonyms for the nation.[/QUOTE]

Jacob would be the perfect metaphor of the nation of Israel being a servant because Jacob is the name of a person. Isaiah 52:13 and Isaiah 53:12 never mention the expression my servant Jacob.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member

Isaiah 53:12 also doesn't mention the servant being Jacob or Israel.
Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
Isaiah 53:12 also doesn't mention the servant being Jacob or Israel.
That's because it already explained who the servant is in a previous chapter.

Gerry walked to the beach.
The water was blue and the sand, warm to the feet.
He had a great time.

The "he" in the third sentence is probably George, since it doesn't mention "he" being Gerry, right?
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
That's because it already explained who the servant is in a previous chapter.

Gerry walked to the beach.
The water was blue and the sand, warm to the feet.
He had a great time.

The "he" in the third sentence is probably George, since it doesn't mention "he" being Gerry, right?

There was no reason for the stories about Jesus being the Messiah to be a fabrication. They didn't write their testimony earlier because the New Testament writers were living in a culture where the vast majority of people were illiterate, there was no initial need or utility in writing it down. First-century people in Palestine, by necessity, developed strong memories in order to remember and pass on information.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
What about the KJV supporting the divinity of Jesus? NIV Chips Away at Doctrine of Jesus Christ
Back to Hebrews as Paul wrote to some: "We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain, because you are dull of hearing. 12Although by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to reteach you the basic principles of God’s word. You need milk, not solid food!" You're not showing scriptures at all to show that Jesus is God equal to two other godpersons making up one entity.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
What about the KJV supporting the divinity of Jesus? NIV Chips Away at Doctrine of Jesus Christ
Do you know why there is a difference? "By" the way, if I go by route 66, it means I took route 66. Unfortunately, you're striving to support each and every proposition offered to bolster up the trinity theory. To me it's like evolution. Unsupported except for grasping straws, but striving to make it real. And people aren't going to give up the evolution theory in "essence" if they don't want to, or don't see it differently.
Many Bibles use the word through rather than by, I see. As I said, if I go by a road to get somewhere, it can mean I'm using that road to get where I'm going. Have you looked it up in an interlinear regarding the Greek? Because -- Strong's Concordance (you've heard of that, haven't you?) says -- the Greek there at John 1:3 means: through, on account of, because of.
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Well, let's see. Are they about Jesus? Yup. But Jesus has no value, so those words have no value. You are trying to use gospel accounts to support the contention that the subject of the gospel account has value. That's circular and useless.
No, the words are not about Jesus, they are about the temple.

Is the temple not of value to you? Does the destruction of the temple not have significance in Judaism?

These words of Jesus demonstrate that he was a prophet. He prophesied the destruction of the temple.
 
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