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How can a Jew reject Jesus as the Messiah?

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
The bible says that Yeshua is THE way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the fatherexcept through him. YHWH's desire is that all people would be saved, this is something he wants for all people, but he has given us free choice, therefore it is our decision wether we will accept Yeshua as our savior and walk in his truth.

I believe that Yeshua is part of the Triune Godhead who Yahweh is the name of.
 

Batya

Always Forward
I would need more of an explanation of their beliefs than that. For instance, how can a religion focus on the Law without a temple? Unless, of course, one understands the temple to be different than one built of stone literally. There's more but I'll let it go at that for now.
Messianic Judaism (I would actually consider that a bit of a misnomer because the Judaism of today is not completely biblical) is believing and walking in the principles and instructions laid out in the Torah, i.e, ten commandments, keeping the seventh day Sabbath, keeping the feasts, eating clean, etc, all summed up in loving YHWH and loving your neighbor. That together with putting your faith in Yeshua for redemption and cleansing of sin. The priesthood aspect was in place in part to be a mediator between man and YHWH, that in expectation for the coming of Yeshua who would become our great high priest in the order of Melchizedek.
The focus on the law in messianic Judaism is not so much for the sake of the law itself, but because it is something that has been largely neglected in mainstream Christianity. It is essential because it is YHWH's declaration of what is right and what is sin. If we accept Yeshua to save us from our sin, we need to know what he considers to be righteous that we might walk I'm it and not just continue blindly in sin.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Why would you say that Jewish Christianity didn't last long??

They were considered Jewish followers of Jesus. There is evidence they werent characterized by both covenants. Rabbinic Judaism developed after many non-Jews became Christians. Nicene Christianity wasn't the original Christianity. Jewish Christians mostly disappeared by the fifth century. There are only fragments of Jewish Christian gospels.
 

Batya

Always Forward
They were considered Jewish followers of Jesus. There is evidence they werent characterized by both covenants. Rabbinic Judaism developed after many non-Jews became Christians. Nicene Christianity wasn't the original Christianity. Jewish Christians mostly disappeared by the fifth century. There are only fragments of Jewish Christian gospels.
I would say first of all, that perhaps the reason Jewish Christianity seemed to disappear (I would actually just call them true Believers because it wasn't really specific to Jews who are just one tribe, it was for all Israel and all who were willing to join themselves to Israel like Ruth) is because Satan has done all in his power to divide and deceive. It is not a matter of it being for a certain time and people, just that we were told that the way is narrow and few find it. We know there will always be a remnant though
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
I would say first of all, that perhaps the reason Jewish Christianity seemed to disappear (I would actually just call them true Believers because it wasn't really specific to Jews who are just one tribe, it was for all Israel and all who were willing to join themselves to Israel like Ruth) is because Satan has done all in his power to divide and deceive. It is not a matter of it being for a certain time and people, just that we were told that the way is narrow and few find it. We know there will always be a remnant though

Do you think people not agreeing with Messianic Judaism is about deception? Jewish Christian - Wikipedia

The inclusion of non-Jews led to a growing split between Jewish Christians (i.e. the Jewish followers of Jesus) and non-Jewish Christians. From the latter, Nicene Christianity eventually arose, while mainstream Judaism developed into Rabbinic Judaism. Jewish Christians drifted apart from mainstream Judaism, eventually becoming a minority strand which had mostly disappeared by the fifth century. Jewish–Christian gospels have been lost except for fragments, so there is considerable uncertainty as to the scriptures used by this group.

The split of Christianity and Judaism took place during the first centuries CE.[1][2] While the First Jewish–Roman War and the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE were main events, the separation was a long-term process, in which the boundaries were not clear-cut.[1][2]
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
I know her story. I grew up on it. God didn't love here father and sister enough to save them from the Nazis apparently.

That depends on what you understand by love and salvation. Both Father ten Boom and sister Betsy were prepared for death. God will use each disciple in a different way. Let's not forget that Jesus was only thirty-three when he gave up his life for others.

Betsy, maybe more than Corrie, was a very public witness to love, even within Ravensbruck. When Corrie found freedom, she did not continue in hatred for her captors but took steps to bring the Gospel to their attention. You may well be aware of the face-to-face encounter she had with one of her own guards in Munich.
 
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Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Yes, we are. But any religion that teaches that God has a literal burning lake of fire that will burn, hurt and torment people forever is not being used by the one true God that judges all and everything.

I personally don't understand the fire to be a physical burning, more a mental torment at the realisation of what it means to be separated from the love of God. The language of the parable draws a comparison between the earthly and heavenly, or material and spiritual.
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
On the other hand, would I just allow someone to maliciously pluck my eye out? I doubt it. Or how about rape? Would I resist that? Yes, I'd fend if off I could. Frankly, I'd think that would be in compliance with the law of Moses and what Jesus said. Does that mean I should kill someone that someone else told me to kill because of national alliances? Naw, I frankly doubt it. Plus Jesus did not fight, but he left the scene when he thought there would be a violent confrontation, and if he could get away. But he also knew his time came when he was arrested. Before that, when confronted in a argument, such as when the Devil approached him thinking he would tempt Jesus, he told him to go away. And he did.

Jesus set an example, showing that it was necessary to wage war against the devil. And the 'death nail' for the devil is love. That's why it is not good enough to return evil for evil.

In 2 Corinthians 10:3,4 Paul says, 'For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds)'

It's not an easy lesson because it goes against the instinct of our flesh to act carnally. It must also be accepted that governments act according to law, not according to grace. People expect justice when they stand before a court of law.
 
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YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
That's my belief about Jewish Christianity and Messianic Judaism. The motivation of the person makes it godly or not.
While God reads the heart of the individual, a religion is also responsible for how it operates, what it teaches, and applies.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I personally don't understand the fire to be a physical burning, more a mental torment at the realisation of what it means to be separated from the love of God. The language of the parable draws a comparison between the earthly and heavenly, or material and spiritual.
The application of what happens in the metaphorical Lake of Fire must be in accord with a God that is Love. Love would not keep alive in consciousness anyone that is unsaved, tormenting or torturing them forever, as if they could feel or think. Going back to the beginning, God offered life or death to the first two inhabitants. Not life vs. eternal torture. It was life -- or -- death. This is integral to understanding who God is. Jehovah wants the living to know what happened to Adam and Eve.
On another note, Jesus was condemning the false religious teachers when he gave his illustration, or parable about a rich man and Lazarus and what would happen after his death to the groups represented by those two characters. He wasn't speaking of someone literally talking from a place down below to someone literally residing in "Abraham's bosom."
 

ayin

Member
I understand what you're saying. However, I do think it's wrong to forsake ones commiment to family and children for a hundred-fold reward and eternal life.

From a Jewish perspective it is highly suspicious that Jesus is a Jewish Rabbi if he tempted people with reward for breaking up the sanctity of the home. A scriptural source for this can be found in the laws of the sotah (numbers 5:23), where the name of God can be erased for the purpose of maintaining the sanctity of the marriage.
You think it is bad to leave family members who do not live according to God's will? Take a look at what the Law of Moses says about this:
5. Mo 13:8-12 "If your brother, your mother's son, or your son, or your daughter, or your own wife, or your friend who is like your soul, incites you secretly and says: Let us go and serve other gods, thou shalt not will him, nor hearken unto him; neither shalt thine eye spare him, neither shalt thou have mercy upon him, nor hide him: but thou shalt surely slay him. Thine hand shall be first upon him to slay him, and afterward the hand of all the people; and thou shalt stone him to death. For he hath sought to turn thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. And all Israel shall hear it, and fear, lest any more such iniquity be done in thy midst."

Jesus says: Just leave them.
The law of Moses said: Kill them.

Which is more loving? The grace of Jesus or the fiery law of Moses?
 
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Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
The application of what happens in the metaphorical Lake of Fire must be in accord with a God that is Love. Love would not keep alive in consciousness anyone that is unsaved, tormenting or torturing them forever, as if they could feel or think. Going back to the beginning, God offered life or death to the first two inhabitants. Not life vs. eternal torture. It was life -- or -- death. This is integral to understanding who God is. Jehovah wants the living to know what happened to Adam and Eve.
On another note, Jesus was condemning the false religious teachers when he gave his illustration, or parable about a rich man and Lazarus and what would happen after his death to the groups represented by those two characters. He wasn't speaking of someone literally talking from a place down below to someone literally residing in "Abraham's bosom."

I see no contradiction between a God who loves and forgives, and a God who brings judgment. True justice is what we deserve, whereas mercy is really only God's to offer. Mercy is the same as opportunity. It's the opportunity to acknowledge sin and live in a new way.

There's an informative passage in 2 Peter 3:8 that says, 'The Lord is not slack concerning his promise [to bring judgment], as some men count slackness; but is long-suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.'

Mercy is, I believe, forgiveness with a purpose. God's love is wanting us to do what is holy, and to live according to his standard of righteousness.

The story of Lazarus and the rich man may be nearer to the literal truth than you imagine. If souls descend into the grave (sheol), there to await the day of the Lord's coming, then I cannot see any reason why the grave may not itself be divided, with a gulf between the faithful (those in Abraham's bosom) and unfaithful.

But more important than waiting for an outcome that's hard to predict is to get things right now!
 
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Batya

Always Forward
I see no contradiction between a God who loves and forgives, and a God who brings judgment. True justice is what we deserve, whereas mercy is really only God's to offer. Mercy is the same as opportunity. It's the opportunity to acknowledge sin and live in a new way.

There's an informative passage in 2 Peter 3:8 that says, 'The Lord is not slack concerning his promise [to bring judgment], as some men count slackness; but is long-suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.'

Mercy is, I believe, forgiveness with a purpose. God's love is wanting us to do what is holy, and live according to his standard of righteousness.

The story of Lazarus and the rich man may be nearer to the literal truth than you imagine. If souls descend into the grave (sheol), there to await the day of the Lord's coming, then I cannot see any reason why the grave may not itself be divided, with a gulf between the faithful (those in Abraham's bosom) and unfaithful.

But more important than waiting for an outcome that's hard to predict is to get things right now!
I completely agree with that!
 
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