Belief in god/a higher power but not afterlife

[ecco]

I happen to believe in an afterlife not because of theological beliefs but because of the Afterlife Evidence.

From your link. The key phrases in:

Introduction

There is scientific evidence for the afterlife​

are...

"We talked to many people who had years of first hand experience"
" And we developed our own psychic abilities."
​

Hearsay is not evidence.
"Psychic abilities" are not evidence.

Let me know when you have some actual evidence.

 

[ecco]

Most of the attraction of religions is the promise that there is something better than the wretched life humans must endure for a comparatively short period of time (or a series of comparatively short periods of time) before the big guy in the sky finally lets you in for ever.

I disagree. From a Christian POV, it’s really about the here and now. Jesus’ gospel message was: “Turn your lives around. God’s imperial rule has come near.”

If it's about the here and now, why are you referencing "God’s imperial rule has come near”? Doesn't "God’s imperial rule” pertain to the long-awaited any-minute-now second coming?

 

[George-ananda]

From your link. The key phrases in:

Introduction

There is scientific evidence for the afterlife​

are...

"We talked to many people who had years of first hand experience"
" And we developed our own psychic abilities."
​

Hearsay is not evidence.
"Psychic abilities" are not evidence.

Let me know when you have some actual evidence.

'Evidence' in this context is any information for consideration. It is a different word than 'proof'.

Even in court cases Eyewitness Evidence can be very important. Eyewitness evidence is not proof but evidence for consideration. We consider the quality of the witness, That is all a part of normal human reasoning skills when considering likelihood.

Edit: And that link focuses heavily on scientific investigators who explore these phenomena as far as current technology allows.

 

[sojourner]

True. In the US, though, it is. Not the legalist/fundamentalist aspect, but definitely the baptist/evangelical/non denominational aspect.

I don’t think that’s quite right. Nonetheless, what is true for the US is still not a majority for Christianity.

 

[sojourner]

If it's about the here and now, why are you referencing "God’s imperial rule has come near”? Doesn't "God’s imperial rule” pertain to the long-awaited any-minute-now second coming?

No. It doesn’t.

 

[ecco]

'Evidence' in this context is any information for consideration. It is a different word than 'proof'.

Evidence is indeed not proof. However, hearsay is not considered evidence. Anecdotal stories are not considered evidence.

Besides hearsay and anecdotes (kinda the same thing), what do your sources have?

Even in court cases Eyewitness Evidence can be very important. Eyewitness evidence is not proof but evidence for consideration. We consider the quality of the witness, That is all a part of normal human reasoning skills when considering likelihood.

Increasingly courts have come to realize the fragility of eyewitness testimony. But, OK. What have your source's eyewitnesses actually seen? Video recordings would be much better.

Edit: And that link focuses heavily on scientific investigators who explore these phenomena as far as current technology allows.

Ah, yes. Scientific investigators...

Science cannot investigate the paranormal. Life after death comes within the realm of the paranormal. Therefore, there is no such thing as "scientific investigators".

Still, I'm willing to be open to looking at the investigative methodology used and the scientifically verifiable "evidence" that was produced.

Many people presented "evidence" to the Randi Foundation. None of the evidence was ever found to be credible.

 

[ecco]

If it's about the here and now, why are you referencing "God’s imperial rule has come near”? Doesn't "God’s imperial rule” pertain to the long-awaited any-minute-now second coming?

No. It doesn’t.

Then what does it refer to?

 

[Starlight]

I happen to believe in an afterlife not because of theological beliefs but because of the Afterlife Evidence.

If we are just physical beings the question of God or not would not even matter to me. What difference would it make? It would just be a curiosity.

I agree with you. It is evidence of a afterlife. Near death experiences is evidence of a afterlife.

 

[sojourner]

Then what does it refer to?

It refers to God’s rule in the here-and-now. That’s the reason for the injunction to “turn your life around.” Indeed, Jesus’ examples of how to live, how to treat others, how to minister are all centered on life right now.

 

[Starlight]

Start a religious sect based on the God you believe in. Make it clear that there is no afterlife - just love for God while the person is alive.

I'll bet you don't get too many followers.

Why? I believe in a afterlife. Im just not certain a afterlife exist

 

[George-ananda]

Evidence is indeed not proof. However, hearsay is not considered evidence. Anecdotal stories are not considered evidence.

Besides hearsay and anecdotes (kinda the same thing), what do your sources have?

Direct reports of experiencers is not 'hearsay' but direct evidence.

Ah, yes. Scientific investigators...

There are many credible and intelligent paranormal investigators in my supplied link.

 

[ecco]

It refers to God’s rule in the here-and-now.

What, exactly is God's rule in the here and now?

I live in America, a secular country with laws made by, and adjudicated by, mortal men, not some myth in the sky.

I certainly would not want to live in a place where slavery is condoned. Do you?

 

[ecco]

And that link focuses heavily on scientific investigators who explore these phenomena as far as current technology allows.

There are many credible and intelligent paranormal investigators in my supplied link.

Ah. Now you choose to use a more proper term "paranormal investigators". Previously you referred to them as "scientific investigators".

Good correction.


However, on what do you base your description of them as "credible"? They may have credibility within the group of people who also consider themselves "paranormal investigators" or paranormal believers. But that doesn't really make them "credible". Five-year-olds discussing the reality of Santa Clause may all find each other credible. But you or I would not.

 

[ecco]

Evidence is indeed not proof. However, hearsay is not considered evidence. Anecdotal stories are not considered evidence.

Direct reports of experiencers is not 'hearsay' but direct evidence.

It is when your experts claim they heard these stories. Did you see any names of people they spoke with. Have you had an opportunity to check any for yourself? If they or you really care about evidence, they or you could cite some double-blind experiments.



You didn't address this...

Besides hearsay and anecdotes (kinda the same thing), what do your sources have?

 

[George-ananda]

It is when your experts claim they heard these stories. Did you see any names of people they spoke with. Have you had an opportunity to check any for yourself? If they or you really care about evidence, .

You seemed uninformed sorry to say. I’ve heard dozens upon dozens upon dozens of first hand experiencers. I get books, TV and the internet at my house.

 

[George-ananda]

However, on what do you base your description of them as "credible"? They may have credibility within the group of people who also consider themselves "paranormal investigators" or paranormal believers. But that doesn't really make them "credible". Five-year-olds discussing the reality of Santa Clause may all find each other credible. But you or I would not.

So who gives out the official credibility rating for all these individuals? Every paranormal/psychic figure fails?? I'd be suspicious of that rating group.

 

[sojourner]

What, exactly is God's rule in the here and now?

I live in America, a secular country with laws made by, and adjudicated by, mortal men, not some myth in the sky.

I certainly would not want to live in a place where slavery is condoned. Do you?

I don’t know where the slavery thing comes from, unless you’re biblical literalist (which is not only a scholastically irresponsible take, but very odd for a non-religious person).

Seems like a red herring to me. Compassion, mercy, forbearance, love, forgiveness, justice, fairness, equity, and hospitality are components of God’s rule.

 

[ecco]

You seemed uninformed sorry to say. I’ve heard dozens upon dozens upon dozens of first hand experiencers. I get books, TV and the internet at my house.

Would you believe me if I said I was briefly abducted by aliens?
Why?

People saying something happened is proof of nothing. People saying they returned from the dead is proof of nothing. People saying they have communicated with the dead is proof of nothing.

There are hundreds of "psychics" who can put you in touch with your dear departed, for a price. No psychic predicted 9-11

Psychics who can put you in touch with your dear departed have been busted time and time again.



Oh, I know, some psychics may be frauds, but your psychics are the real thing.

Uh huh.

Google "death talk psychics busted". The resulting list has 4.5 million entries.

Here is one:

I Asked Psychics to Connect with My Non-Existent Dead Sister

Psychic 1
she told me Emily wanted me to know that she's in a good place and that she's watching over the family.


Psychic 2
"It's a little different than what she expected on the other side, but she is quite happy and sees things very differently..."She's saying not to worry about her, she is OK. She says not to worry as she is fine and with you.


Psychic 3
My heart dropped— would my face betray something?—and immediately jumped back into my chest when she told me she could feel Emily's presence and that she was happy. In a new development, Emily had "passed on" and become my guardian angel.

Psychic 4
The psychic, who'd had her hand on my phone screen the whole time, said she had felt it shaking and that it was probably a sign Emily was around (my friend had sent me two texts around that time).​

How is this any different from your "dozens upon dozens upon dozens of first hand experiences."?

 

[George-ananda]

Would you believe me if I said I was briefly abducted by aliens?
Why?

People saying something happened is proof of nothing. People saying they returned from the dead is proof of nothing. People saying they have communicated with the dead is proof of nothing.

There are hundreds of "psychics" who can put you in touch with your dear departed, for a price. No psychic predicted 9-11

Psychics who can put you in touch with your dear departed have been busted time and time again.



Oh, I know, some psychics may be frauds, but your psychics are the real thing.

Uh huh.

Google "death talk psychics busted". The resulting list has 4.5 million entries.

Here is one:

I Asked Psychics to Connect with My Non-Existent Dead Sister

Psychic 1
she told me Emily wanted me to know that she's in a good place and that she's watching over the family.


Psychic 2
"It's a little different than what she expected on the other side, but she is quite happy and sees things very differently..."She's saying not to worry about her, she is OK. She says not to worry as she is fine and with you.


Psychic 3
My heart dropped— would my face betray something?—and immediately jumped back into my chest when she told me she could feel Emily's presence and that she was happy. In a new development, Emily had "passed on" and become my guardian angel.

Psychic 4
The psychic, who'd had her hand on my phone screen the whole time, said she had felt it shaking and that it was probably a sign Emily was around (my friend had sent me two texts around that time).​

How is this any different from your "dozens upon dozens upon dozens of first hand experiences."?

I do believe the vast majority of people that I have heard relating their first-hand experiences are being honest. I don't accept everything I hear but judge credibility and then form an overall impression of a large body of data.

 

[Trailblazer]

That depends on what you mean by an "afterlife". If it requires a living, conscious part of a human being that separates from the body at death, then no, the Bible does not teach this. But if you mean a restoration of life by means of a resurrection, then yes.....that is the only "afterlife" taught in scripture.

Funny thing, the Christian that wrote this book goes strictly by scripture, and below us what He believes about the resurrection:

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351​

What the Christian above wrote above is congruent with the Bible. The physical body returns to the earth and the spirit passes to the spiritual world and returns to God. The body does not come up from the ground. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that physical bodies will live forever on earth. That is just one Christian belief of many, as the Bible can be made to say whatever people want to believe.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.