So Jesus is not God?

[Skywalker]

Pagan worship!!
‘God the son’ HAD TO BE made up seeing that even staunch Trinitarians recognise that it is heretical to believe in ‘Son of God’ as meaning one of the trio of persons who are the farcical trinity-God person. It is used to impress on impressionable and vulnerable and disingenuous believers of trinity that there is SIN in the trinity belief so change in wording, emphasis, and titles, are required... to wit:

• Design a new God
• Make it appear like the True God
• Persuade vulnerable persons by use of disingenuous wording and mindset into this false God worship
• Develop false and even clearly error-filled arguments to cover areas found at fault
• Mislead the whole world : as prophesied in the very scriptures used to mislead...

I know you cannot answer with any credibility but can I ask you to say again:

1. Why is your Jesus-God GIVEN POWER and AUTHORITY to rule FOR ONLY A PERIOD OF TIME... A TRUE GOD rules from eternity to eternity! Who gives and, who is that POWER and AUTHORITY returned to? Why? (One comprehensive block question!)
2. Why does your Jesus-God INHERIT a minor ‘room in a mansion of rooms’ created kingdom as HIS kingdom
3. Leaving the Father to be RULER over the greater mansion kingdom of Heaven, and
4. Defranchising so-called holy-spirit-person with NO KINGDOM at all
5. If the ‘three’ (though you only ever speak of TWO!) are ALL ONE AND THE SAME ‘ONE GOD’?

Thank you!

Jesus in his humanity will only rule for a limited period of time. He will rule as king eternally. The book of Daniel mentions that the man who was with Daniel was like a son of man. The babylonian king said that he looked like a son of the gods. The Old Testament uses language about Jesus that is very similar to that of the New Testament.

 

[Soapy]

Jesus in his humanity will only rule for a limited period of time. He will rule as king eternally. The book of Daniel mentions that the man who was with Daniel was like a son of man. The babylonian king said that he looked like a son of the gods. The Old Testament uses language about Jesus that is very similar to that of the New Testament.

Ha ha ha... I knew you are a Bot....!!!

What a ridiculous and nonsensical answer.... ‘Straight out of a comic book!’

Ha ha ha... And Oeste says it’s anti-trinitarians who don’t answer questions... ha ha ha!!!

 

[Skywalker]

Ha ha ha... I knew you are a Bot....!!!

What a ridiculous and nonsensical answer.... ‘Straight out of a comic book!’

Ha ha ha... And Oeste says it’s anti-trinitarians who don’t answer questions... ha ha ha!!!

God the Son what it means that Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus isn't literally the Son of God, just like he isn't literally the Angel of the Lord.

 

[Soapy]

God the Son what it means that Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus isn't literally the Son of God, just like he isn't literally the Angel of the Lord.

Answering to a Bot with gems of wisdom is like Jesus said:

• ‘Don’t throw you’d pearls before swines as they will only trample them under foot [not understanding their worth]’

However, for the record:
There is no ‘literally son of God’ as you say... quite right!!

God does not PRO-CREATE... that is, give birth to offspring. I think people, and especially Trinitarians to not understand the word ‘Pro-Create’.

Again, for the record: ‘Pro-Create is a fleshly CREATION:

• Animal to animal
• Insect to insect
• Fish to fish
• Bird to bird
• Microbe to microbe
• Flower to flower
• Man to man
• ...

God is SPIRIT... Angels are Spirits...
God and Angels do not pro-create.

Jesus was CREATED in body and his spirit put into him in exactly the same way as Adam, the first man. Hence Jesus is called, ‘The Last Adam’, or ‘The Second Adam’ (both are valid). This is because they were both CREATE from INERT MATERIAL as to their BODY; and the body was ENLIVENED by the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD.

I don’t expect a BOT to understand but the record is for those reading who can understand: ‘Have eyes to see and ears to hear!’

Now, ‘Son of...’, means:

• ‘He who does as his creator Wills, commands, directs, him to do’

This is clear from Jesus himself:

• ‘I only said I am the Son of God. If I am not doing the Works of the Father then believe for the works themselves’

Another scripture says:

• ‘All who do the works of the Spirit are CHILDREN of God’

So all should be clear. Adam, in the day of his creation up until he sin, followed the spirit of Gid completely. He was therefore rendered as ‘Son of God’ (Luke 3:38). But we know he fell from that sonship after he sinned.

 

[Skywalker]

Answering with gems of wisdom is like Jesus said:

• ‘Don’t throw you’d pearls before swines as they will only trample them under foot [not understanding their worth]’

However, for the record:
There is no ‘literally son of God’ as you say... quite right!!

God does not PRO-CREATE... that is, give birth to offspring. I think people, and especially Trinitarians to not understand the word ‘Pro-Create’.

Again, for the record: ‘Pro-Create is a fleshly CREATION:

• Animal to animal
• Insect to insect
• Fish to fish
• Bird to bird
• Microbe to microbe
• Flower to flower
• Man to man
• ...

God is SPIRIT... Angels are Spirits...
God and Angels do not pro-create.

Jesus was CREATED in body and his spirit put into him in exactly the same way as Adam, the first man. Hence Jesus is called, ‘The Last Adam’, or ‘The Second Adam’ (both are valid). This is because they were both CREATE from INERT MATERIAL as to their BODY; and the body was ENLIVENED by the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD.

I don’t expect a BOT to understand but the record is for those reading who can understand: ‘Have eyes to see and ears to hear!’

Now, ‘Son of...’, means:

• ‘He who does as his creator Wills, commands, directs, him to do’

This is clear from Jesus himself:

• ‘I only said I am the Son of God. If I am not doing the Works of the Father then believe for the works themselves’

Another scripture says:

• ‘All who do the works of the Spirit are CHILDREN of God’

So all should be clear. Adam, in the day of his creation up until he sin, followed the spirit of Gid completely. He was therefore rendered as ‘Son of God’ (Luke 3:38). But we know he fell from that sonship after he sinned.

That's what I meant when I said Jesus being the son of God means that He is God the Son. Do you think God breathing life into Jesus is why He is God's Son? It could be that and his Sonship in the Trinity. Jesus being the Son of God makes sense if it means Jesus is God the Son because the Bible calls the king of Babylon the son of the morning, and that isn't literal.

 

[Soapy]

That's what I meant when I said Jesus being the son of God means that He is God the Son. Do you think God breathing life into Jesus is why He is God's Son? It could be that and his Sonship in the Trinity. Jesus being the Son of God makes sense if it means Jesus is God the Son because the Bible calls the king of Babylon the son of the morning, and that isn't literal.

Bots have no sense. They can only construct meaningless sentences just as you are doing here. The whole sentence and paragraph is full of fallacies. If this was mathematics you’d be laughed out of the room!

 

[Soapy]

That's what I meant when I said Jesus being the son of God means that He is God the Son. Do you think God breathing life into Jesus is why He is God's Son? It could be that and his Sonship in the Trinity. Jesus being the Son of God makes sense if it means Jesus is God the Son because the Bible calls the king of Babylon the son of the morning, and that isn't literal.

Why is one co-equal, co-omnipotent, co-omniscient, member of a co-equal, co-omnipotent, co-omniscient God not equal, not omnipotent, and not omniscient?

And another member not even have a throne to rule over?

While one member has all, everything, is Almighty, all-knowing, and has control over all aspects of the other two members... hardly seems like a corperation ive ever heard of - and we mirror our Father God as his creation in his image!!

 

[Skywalker]

Bots have no sense. They can only construct meaningless sentences just as you are doing here. The whole sentence and paragraph is full of fallacies. If this was mathematics you’d be laughed out of the room!

The expression son of has a lot of symbolic meanings. It's not just with Jesus. It's also with what Isaiah said in Isaiah 14 about the devil and the king of Babylon.

 

[Skywalker]

Why is one co-equal, co-omnipotent, co-omniscient, member of a co-equal, co-omnipotent, co-omniscient God not equal, not omnipotent, and not omniscient?

And another member not even have a throne to rule over?

While one member has all, everything, is Almighty, all-knowing, and has control over all aspects of the other two members... hardly seems like a corperation ive ever heard of - and we mirror our Father God as his creation in his image!!

Submission is about cooperation. It's like a marriage. Jesus didn't mirror God like we do because Jesus was God.

 

[Oeste]

Oeste, Oeste, Oeste, ... WHO or WHAT could ‘No one’ mean?

There are only THREE SENTIENT ENTITIES in existence:

1. Almighty God
2. Angels
3. Humankind

Of these three, Oeste, ONLY humankind can DIE.

1. Almighty God is IMMORTAL
2. Angels are IMMORTAL
3. HUMANKIND is MORTAL

Almighty God cannot ‘lay down his life’...
Angels cannot ‘lay down their lives’...

Oeste, Oeste, Oeste, ‘Greater love has .....’

Go figure!!!

When you can reply to something I actually wrote, let me know. When you can answer the OP in a logical coherent manner I'll take time to make a reply.

 

[rational experiences]

Science. The only choice not God.

A pretence. A machine designed built. Non reactive. A fake God.

Human theist only living son in the heavens. Remember we live inside heavenly body spirit gases. Talk relative science and then you would understand.

Human male holy life. Only son male is God heavens. Is not God. Is a man. A human.

CH in science gases that had arisen out of God stone. Kept life safe.

The only male. A man. A father quantifying self scientist sacrificed his baby male to adult life. Future of life in satanic act. Sion convert Sion. Fu Sion by fis Sion.

Fis H by terrestrial magnetism symbol H.

Radiation mass contradicted Christ mass.

God core heart mass release overcame cooled water holy baptism above our heads. Burnt out Christ spirit.

The relativity teaching.

Relative. My father. Not Jesus.
My mother not Jesus. They have sex.

Jesus not God.
Jesus not our father.
Jesus sacrificed baby life by father adult theist. The ist. Lists. Satanist. Satan ism.

Not God ist.
Not God ism.

God only God. A teaching to self human.

Ice melted. Floods.

Floods filled in sin removed origin form. God body. Flood went into holes after great Seal broken. Sin K.

K symbol science constant

 

[Soapy]

When you can reply to something I actually wrote, let me know. When you can answer the OP in a logical coherent manner I'll take time to make a reply.

Yes, Oeste, when trinitarians cannot wriggle out of the fallacy they spout in Satan’s name they do as you do.

Thank you for confirming the fallacy of trinity and that more than that, it is devil’s teaching even as it claims Christ and God as it’s head....

Claiming ‘Christ’ AND ‘God’ as it’s headS... while not understanding that it is presenting TWO INDEPENDENT persons AS GOD:
1) Jesus is God
2) God is God

Ha ha ha... see? No wonder such nonsense developed into the ‘Jesus Only’ and ‘Oneness’ type of belief.

But notice this:

• There are only TWO ‘persons’ in your expressed TRINITY.....
• Stephen saw ONLY TWO PERSONS in the vision of Heaven as he was being stoned to death!!!
• Jesus said ONLY that he was going to THE FATHER
• Jesus acknowledged ONLY THE FATHER as the ONLY TRUE GOD
• The Apostles epistles acknowledged ONLY GOD, the Father.... and Jesus Christ
• YHWH, the Father, God Almighty, stated that he is the ONLY [true] GOD
• The Holy Spirit is the ACTIONING FORCE of the Father God / not another person... hence it is SENT AS AID and an AIDE upon Jesus as an anointment (‘Christ’: Holy Anointing: to be ‘Set aside for either Kingship or Priesthood. Jesus was anointed for both) and upon the Apostles (‘Wait in Jerusalem until you receive power from on high’) at Pentecost (They received only a priestly assignment in general but a kingship with Christ also for those who remained true to their end: ‘They will rule as kings and priest with Christ Jesus’)

Oeste, and you say no one answers a Bot’s question... Responding like skywalker responds: no sense and repetitive crap, is BOTness!

 

[Soapy]

The expression son of has a lot of symbolic meanings. It's not just with Jesus. It's also with what Isaiah said in Isaiah 14 about the devil and the king of Babylon.

Skywalker, tell me more, and greater more than just a sentence or two, and with references, about what you believe, ‘Son of...’ means.

 

[Oeste]

Yes, Oeste, when trinitarians cannot wriggle out of the fallacy they spout in Satan’s name they do as you do.

Thank you for confirming the fallacy of trinity and that more than that, it is devil’s teaching even as it claims Christ and God as it’s head....

Claiming ‘Christ’ AND ‘God’ as it’s headS... while not understanding that it is presenting TWO INDEPENDENT persons AS GOD:
1) Jesus is God
2) God is God

Ha ha ha... see? No wonder such nonsense developed into the ‘Jesus Only’ and ‘Oneness’ type of belief.

But notice this:

• There are only TWO ‘persons’ in your expressed TRINITY.....
• Stephen saw ONLY TWO PERSONS in the vision of Heaven as he was being stoned to death!!!
• Jesus said ONLY that he was going to THE FATHER
• Jesus acknowledged ONLY THE FATHER as the ONLY TRUE GOD
• The Apostles epistles acknowledged ONLY GOD, the Father.... and Jesus Christ
• YHWH, the Father, God Almighty, stated that he is the ONLY [true] GOD
• The Holy Spirit is the ACTIONING FORCE of the Father God / not another person... hence it is SENT AS AID and an AIDE upon Jesus as an anointment (‘Christ’: Holy Anointing: to be ‘Set aside for either Kingship or Priesthood. Jesus was anointed for both) and upon the Apostles (‘Wait in Jerusalem until you receive power from on high’) at Pentecost (They received only a priestly assignment in general but a kingship with Christ also for those who remained true to their end: ‘They will rule as kings and priest with Christ Jesus’)

Oeste, and you say no one answers a Bot’s question... Responding like skywalker responds: no sense and repetitive crap, is BOTness!

When you can reply to something I actually wrote, let me know. When you can answer the OP in a logical coherent manner I'll take time to make a reply.

 

[Skywalker]

Skywalker, tell me more, and greater more than just a sentence or two, and with references, about what you believe, ‘Son of...’ means.

The expression son of has a lot of meanings that are metaphorical.

Jesus as the Son of God

Muslims believe that God is one, that there are no gods except the God. They may contend that even though Christians claim to be monotheists, they actually believe in more than one God. Since Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of God, they therefore err like other people of ancient or modern times who have believed in a plurality of gods or the sons and daughters of God.

So often Muslim-Christian religious discussion breaks on the topic of Jesus' Sonship. The Christian affirms that Jesus is the Son of God; the Muslim denies that Jesus is the Son of God. Both simply agree to disagree, each convinced that he is right and the other is wrong, as they go their separate ways.

But is there another alternative? In suggesting that there is, the following questions are proposed: Has the Christian truly understood what Jesus' Sonship means to the Muslim and why the Muslim rejects it? Has the Muslim truly understood what Jesus Sonship means to the Christian and why the Christian affirms it? On this topic, which for centuries has been notorious for generating more heat than light, could both agree to explain their relative positions more fully and to listen to one another more intently and courteously?

The intention of this essay is to help both Muslims and Christians to penetrate a little deeper into the Biblical concept of Jesus as the Son of God and the significance of this idea for Christians. At the same time, it is hoped that this essay, as it unfolds, demonstrates at least some sensitivity towards a truly Muslim position on this vital topic. Where it needs correction or amplification, gladly let Muslim friends provide it.

Biblical Meaning of "Son"

To understand the Biblical meaning of Jesus as "the Son of God", first we must examine the Biblical use of the word "son". In the Bible, "son" is a term expressing an intimate relationship with someone or something; basically, it indicates origin, but it is also used to express close association or identification with persons or things. Even when indicating origin, this term does not limit oneself to one's father and mother. One may be called the "son" of the following: his father and mother, his family, his tribe, his people, his place of birth (city or country), and the time or circumstance of his birth. The if "father-son" terminology is also used in connection with kings and their vassals or subjects, masters and servants, teachers and disciples, and almost any situation in which someone is subordinate to or dependent on someone else. The basic requirement of the "son" is to honour and obey his "father", but he should also love him and emulate him.

The term "son" is used in many other ways in the Bible, some of which are connected with origin but others of which mainly express some sort of association with or resemblance to persons or things. A large, somehow homogeneous group may be called "sons" (occupational and ethnic groups especially). Sometimes characteristics or qualities themselves are personified and regarded as having "sons" - those who possess that same characteristic or quality. Still also other uses of the term "son" in the Bible reflect the versatile and imaginative use of this term especially in the Hebrew language.

A complete list of the various uses of the term "son" in the Bible would be too long for this essay. A few of its more idiomatic uses are listed below, with their literal meanings and the translations of the Holy Bible, New International Version (or The New English Bible or Holy Bible, Revised Standard Version).

Old Testament



Reference: Expression (as literally in the original text)
-- Meaning (as found in the translation)

Genesis 5:32: "son of five hundred years"
-- "five hundred years old"



Genesis 15:3: "a son of my house"
-- "a servant in my household"



Deuteronomy 25:2: "a son of stripes"
-- "deserves to be beaten"



Judges 19:22: "sons of Belial"
-- "wicked men"



I Samuel 20:31: "a son of death"
-- "he must die"



I Kings 20:35: "sons of the prophets"
-- "a company of prophets" (NEB)



II Kings 14:14: "sons of pledging"
-- "hostages"



Job 41:28: "son of a bow"
-- "arrow" (NEB)



Isaiah 60: 10: "sons of a foreign land"
-- "foreigners"



Lamentations 3:13: "sons of a quiver"
-- "arrows from his quivers"



Joel 3:6: "sons of the Grecians"
-- "the Greeks"



Zechariah 4:14: "sons of oil"
-- "anointed"


New Testament



Matthew 9:15: "sons of the bridegroom"
-- "the guests of the bridegroom"

Matthew 12:27: "your sons"
-- "your people"



Luke 10:6: "a son of peace"
-- "a man of peace"



Luke 16:8: "the sons of this age"
-- "the people of this world";
"the sons of lights"
-- "the people of the light"



John 17:12: "the son of destruction"
-- "the one doomed to destruction"



Acts 13:26: "sons of the family of Abraham"
-- "you who come of the stock of Abraham" (NEB)



Galatians 3:7: "those who believe are children of Abraham"



Ephesians 2:2: "the sons of disobedience"
-- "those who are disobedient"


The above are only a few of the many uses of the term "son(s)" in the Holy Bible. The most common uses, which are usually translated literally, have been omitted. However, one such group might be illustrated here: personal, yet non-physical, Father-son" relationships:



Father Son(s)

I Samuel 3:6 Eli Samuel



I Samuel 24:16 Saul David



I Samuel 25:8 Nabal David



Proverbs 1:8, etc. Solomon the reader



II Kings 2: 12 Elijah Elisha



II Kings 8:9 Elisha King Ben-Hadad



II Kings 5:13 Naaman his servants



Judges 18:19 the priest the people



Genesis 4:20f. first musician all musicians, etc



Matthew 9:2 Jesus the paralytic



I Timothy 1:2, etc. Paul Timothy



Titus 1:4 Paul Titus



Philemon 10 Paul Philemon



I Peter 5: 13 Peter Mark


Other languages also use the term "son" in a variety of ways. Thus, in the Arabic language of the Qur'an "son" need not mean only a direct male issue or descendant. A familiar example is ibnu's sabil ("son of the road"), which means "a traveller". Another example with which many are familiar is "the son of Satan" a vivid descriptive for any mischief-maker (cf. also Acts 13:10). Obviously Satan does not have a wife in order to have a son! The name implies that the mischief maker is like Satan, an embodiment of Satan, a "Satan with us". Worthy of remembrance is also the Arabic term ummu'l kitab (literally "the mother of the book") the heavenly Scripture from which all Scripture with us on earth is derived, as if each Scripture were her child.

 

[Soapy]

Submission is about cooperation. It's like a marriage. Jesus didn't mirror God like we do because Jesus was God.

Jesus ‘WAS GOD’...?

Ha ha ha... trinity gets more ridiculous the more it is probed!!!

1) Jesus is the ‘Image of God’ ... but -
2) Jesus ‘WAS God’... but -
3) Jesus was a Man

In one moment Jesus was God who could do miracles such as raise the dead... just like Elijah and Elisha hundreds of years earlier...

The next moment Jesus didn’t know how when he would return because ONLY HIS GOD AND FATHER knew and neither did Jesus know who was to sit on his right and left hand in his rulership BECAUSE ‘ONLY THE FATHER, who has established things IN HIS TIME, knows’. So the trinity Jesus-God is a defective ALMIGHTY GOD???!

Acts 2:29-36:

• 29Brothers, I can tell you with confidence that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that He would place one of his descendants on his throne.h 31Foreseeing this, David spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that He was not abandoned to Hades, nor did His body see decay. 32God has raised this Jesus to life, to which we are all witnesses.33Exalted, then, to the right hand of God, He has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34For David did not ascend into heaven, but he himself says:
  
  ‘The Lord said to my Lord,
  
  “Sit at My right hand35until I make Your enemies
  
  a footstool for Your feet.” ’i36Therefore let all Israel know with certainty that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ!”“

Jesus Christ, son and descendent of king David...

“***God made Jesus to be both Lord and Christ***”

Acts 4:10:

• “then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed.”

 

[Skywalker]

Jesus ‘WAS GOD’...?

Ha ha ha... trinity gets more ridiculous the more it is probed!!!

1) Jesus is the ‘Image of God’ ... but -
2) Jesus ‘WAS God’... but -
3) Jesus was a Man

In one moment Jesus was God who could do miracles such as raise the dead... just like Elijah and Elisha hundreds of years earlier...

The next moment Jesus didn’t know how when he would return because ONLY HIS GOD AND FATHER knew and neither did Jesus know who was to sit on his right and left hand in his rulership BECAUSE ‘ONLY THE FATHER, who has established things IN HIS TIME, knows’. So the trinity Jesus-God is a defective ALMIGHTY GOD???!

Acts 2:29-36:

• 29Brothers, I can tell you with confidence that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that He would place one of his descendants on his throne.h 31Foreseeing this, David spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that He was not abandoned to Hades, nor did His body see decay. 32God has raised this Jesus to life, to which we are all witnesses.33Exalted, then, to the right hand of God, He has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34For David did not ascend into heaven, but he himself says:
  
  ‘The Lord said to my Lord,
  
  “Sit at My right hand35until I make Your enemies
  
  a footstool for Your feet.” ’i36Therefore let all Israel know with certainty that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ!”“

Jesus Christ, son and descendent of king David...

“***God made Jesus to be both Lord and Christ***”

Acts 4:10:

• “then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed.”

God raising Himself from the dead is not a self contradiction, because the God who created the universe is omnipotent, and Jesus is both God and man.

 

[Soapy]

The expression son of has a lot of meanings that are metaphorical.

Jesus as the Son of God

This ‘copy paste’ stuff does not answer the question because all it says is that if someone is like their Father then that person is the Father’s son... and while that is true it is not YOU that is saying it but the script you plagerized!!

It does not show YOUR UNDERSTANDING but rather only what someone else thinks...

And where is this ‘Muslim’ comparison coming from? I am not comparing OTHER religious beliefs but trinity fallacy only.

And, you haven’t really expressed the ‘Sonship’ of the scriptures directly like I asked you!

 

[Soapy]

God raising Himself from the dead is not a self contradiction, because the God who created the universe is omnipotent, and Jesus is both God and man.

The Bot continues to spread nonsense ... nothing in scriptures states that God raised himself... as Moorea944 asks: ‘Where are you getting this ridiculous nonsense from?’

 

[Soapy]

When you can reply to something I actually wrote, let me know. When you can answer the OP in a logical coherent manner I'll take time to make a reply.

Darkness flees from the light... Oeste flees from truth!!!

Bye bye, Oeste!!!