The JW's claim Jesus was not son of Adam.

[YoursTrue]

I believe only the gods had eternal life but that doesn't mean they couldn't be killed. For sure they are not around now.

You're right in that immortality is not the same as eternal life. Adam and Eve could have had eternal life but Adam relinquished that possibility for himself, passing that lack of opportunity on to his offspring. Remember, the tree of life in the Garden was not available to anyone after their expulsion from the garden.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The City spoken in Rev 21 is called "New Jerusalem" and She is the Bride, the Lamb's wife. Rev 21:9-10 This "great city" is therefore the people themselves who "descend out of heaven from God".

I find the ' great multitude ' of Revelation 7:9,14 are living people on Earth. Earth as God's footstool.
These people are the living figurative ' sheep ' on Earth at the coming 'time of separation' on Earth of Matthew 25:31-33,37
They do Not descend but I find they are kept safe as Isaiah 26:20 indicates to us.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I believe I base it upon the fact that genetically I am only 1% Adamic and 99% Caucasian although I am sure I have some Atlantean as well. The Norse Myths say that they came from the stars and the Atlanteans the same. The DNA suggests that the Adamic race is related to Sino-Indian races which is one of the longest existing races as well as Africans on the earth.

Since Adam was made or fashioned from the dust of the Earth - Genesis 2:7, then at this point we don't know what comes from that dust formation of Adam.

 

[Muffled]

Satan did not impregnate Eve. Neither she not Adam had to die unless...

I agree Satan did not impregnate Eve.

 

[Muffled]

Since Adam was made or fashioned from the dust of the Earth - Genesis 2:7, then at this point we don't know what comes from that dust formation of Adam.

I believe the Qu'ran does tell us more about this. What was brought out of the earth was a blood clot from which Adam was cloned. That is why the gods could do it because they had the knowledge of genetic engineering. That is why the gods are fabulous in beauty and form because they genetically engineered themselves to be that.

 

[YoursTrue]

I believe the Qu'ran does tell us more about this. What was brought out of the earth was a blood clot from which Adam was cloned. That is why the gods could do it because they had the knowledge of genetic engineering. That is why the gods are fabulous in beauty and form because they genetically engineered themselves to be that.

Just out of curiosity, they (the gods?) found one blood clot in the earth. Any idea when that happened? I mean like how many years ago, approximately, do you think that happened?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I believe the Qu'ran does tell us more about this. What was brought out of the earth was a blood clot from which Adam was cloned. That is why the gods could do it because they had the knowledge of genetic engineering. That is why the gods are fabulous in beauty and form because they genetically engineered themselves to be that.

It seems to me then you are informing us that the Qu'ran is in opposition to the Bible.

 

[JW Minister]

The JW's claim that Jesus was not a son of Adam.

Here's the quote from another thread:

"Jesus was "the son of God"...NOT the son of Adam. Had he been a son of Adam, then he would not have been sinless. The ransom required the payment of an equivalent life....no son of Adam could offer the needed payment....a perfect life for a perfect life." --Jehovah Witness

What do you think?

I'd like to keep this debate within the context of the Scriptures

Jesus father was not human but was Jehovah GOD not Adam in that sense ,Mary was from Adams line but she cant bequest the throne of David to Jesus being female
thus Joseph adopted him who was from that line

 

[YoursTrue]

Jesus father was not human but was Jehovah GOD not Adam in that sense ,Mary was from Adams line but she cant bequest the throne of David to Jesus being female
thus Joseph adopted him who was from that line

Good point. God, who made the heavens and the earth, can change the human body as He wills. Thus God's invisible power changed Mary's natural cellular structure to cause her to get pregnant without sexual intercourse.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It seems to me then you are informing us that the Qu'ran is in opposition to the Bible.

I certainly can't disagree with SURAH XXXIX: 73-74 about inheriting the land and abiding in the garden. (Eden)
Jesus taught about people inheriting the land at Matthew 5:5 which is in harmony with Psalms 37:9-11; and SURAH XXI:105
We are in the ' last day ' SURAH V:69, or in the last days of badness on Earth as described at 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13.

 

[YoursTrue]

I certainly can't disagree with SURAH XXXIX: 73-74 about inheriting the land and abiding in the garden. (Eden)
Jesus taught about people inheriting the land at Matthew 5:5 which is in harmony with Psalms 37:9-11; and SURAH XXI:105
We are in the ' last day ' SURAH V:69, or in the last days of badness on Earth as described at 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13.

It seems clear to me that Mary, the mother of Jesus, was from the lineage of Adam and Eve. Thus, the genetics of Adam and Eve were instilled in all humans.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It seems clear to me that Mary, the mother of Jesus, was from the lineage of Adam and Eve. Thus, the genetics of Adam and Eve were instilled in all humans.

Very well stated ^ above ^ because Adam and Eve instilled in ALL of us their fallen state, especially Adam who sinned after Eve did.
Thus, Mary too was humanly imperfect but loved God and knew Scripture because she quoted or referred to Scripture about 20 times.

 

[YoursTrue]

Very well stated ^ above ^ because Adam and Eve instilled in ALL of us their fallen state, especially Adam who sinned after Eve did.
Thus, Mary too was humanly imperfect but loved God and knew Scripture because she quoted or referred to Scripture about 20 times.

That is true. We are all 'products' of Adam and Eve. Every human being produced by them regardless of 'how,' (whether in a tube or otherwise) has both Adam and Eve in their makeup. A passing on of their genes. She was a virgin when she got pregnant. And a good point was made that Joseph adopted him.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

That is true. We are all 'products' of Adam and Eve. Every human being produced by them regardless of 'how,' (whether in a tube or otherwise) has both Adam and Eve in their makeup. A passing on of their genes. She was a virgin when she got pregnant. And a good point was made that Joseph adopted him.

Yes, and by Joseph adopting Jesus that put Jesus legally in the 'paternal line' for the throne of David as per Matthew's account.
Whereas, Luke's 'maternal line ' traces Mary's genealogical line.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes, and by Joseph adopting Jesus that put Jesus legally in the 'paternal line' for the throne of David as per Matthew's account.
Whereas, Luke's 'maternal line ' traces Mary's genealogical line.

Yes, very good. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[YoursTrue]

Very well stated ^ above ^ because Adam and Eve instilled in ALL of us their fallen state, especially Adam who sinned after Eve did.
Thus, Mary too was humanly imperfect but loved God and knew Scripture because she quoted or referred to Scripture about 20 times.

Yes, she truly loved God, and God loved her.

 

[Muffled]

Just out of curiosity, they (the gods?) found one blood clot in the earth. Any idea when that happened? I mean like how many years ago, approximately, do you think that happened?

I believe that was somewhere around 4500 BCE. The DNA actually traces back to 30,000 BCE as sino-indian.

 

[Muffled]

It seems to me then you are informing us that the Qu'ran is in opposition to the Bible.

I believe that is a fantasy on your part. I am saying the Qu'ran helps clarify what the Bible is saying.

 

[Muffled]

Jesus father was not human but was Jehovah GOD not Adam in that sense ,Mary was from Adams line but she cant bequest the throne of David to Jesus being female
thus Joseph adopted him who was from that line

I believe God can make Himself King and needs no help from man made rules. The fulfillment of prophecy only requires Him to be an offspring of David and Mary qualifies as that.

 

[JW Minister]

I believe God can make Himself King and needs no help from man made rules. The fulfillment of prophecy only requires Him to be an offspring of David and Mary qualifies as that.

Man is not the one who sets the rules G-D does ,in terms of the female, ancient sentiment did not comport with the mention of the mother as the genealogical link. Among the Greeks a man was the son of his father, not of his mother; thus ‘Genus matris non vocatur genus.

Jesus was not the natural son of Joseph but was the Son of G-D as I mentioned , Luke’s genealogy of Jesus would prove that he was, by human birth, a son of David through his natural mother Mary.


'I believe God can make Himself King and needs no help from man made rules."

True G-D can do anything he wants and who exist that can stop him but he set rules and standards for man and he follows the set rules himself as a precedent for example,The Devil challenged G-Ds right to rule over mankind that man should choose for himself what was good or bad and didnt need him G-D to tell him what was right or wrong,G-D could have settled the matter in Eden by destroying any opposition to his rule ,but the challenge was not of power but of G-Ds right to rule over mankind.

It the same with Jesus right to rule over the Davidic throne only one who has the legal right would rule.


Ezekiel 21
A ruin, a ruin, a ruin I will make it. And it will not belong to anyone until the one who has the legal right comes,+ and I will give it to him.’+

G-D has rules that he set and adhere to as well

Under inspiration he says:

Matthew 1
The book of the history* of Jesus Christ,son of David,+ son of Abraham:+

He could legally say son of David because Jesus was actually the Son of God and the natural heir to the Kingdom by miraculous birth through the virgin girl Mary, of David’s line and that Jesus was also the legal heir in the male line of descent from David and Solomon through his adoptive father Joseph.

From Joseph Israel has a problem ,thus it has been historically accepted among Jews that the Messiah will be a male line descendant of David, the lineage of Jesus is cited as a factor as to why Jews do not believe him to have been the Messiah. As the proposed son of God, he could not have been a male line descendant of David and, if going through his earthly parents, Mary and Joseph, he would not have had the proper lineage either, as he would not have been a male line descendant through Mary, and Joseph descended from Jeconiah whose descendants are explicitly barred by God from ever ruling Israel I understand that argument however , Shealtiel was the son of Jeconiah; perhaps by marriage to the daughter of Neri he became Neri’s son-in law, thus being called the “son of Neri.” It is possible as well that Neri had no sons, so that Shealtiel was counted as his “son” for that reason also. Zerubbabel, who was likely the actual son of Pedaiah, was legally reckoned as the son of Shealtiel, So it doesnt nullifly Jesus as heir to the throne of Davis as he has the legal right.

The Quran mentions the House of David once: "Work, O family of David, in gratitude. And few of My servants are grateful." and mentions David himself 16 times.

According to some Islamic sources, some of the Jewish settlers in Arabia were of the Davidic line.

The point is Jehovah G-D sets the rules and makes sure there is a legal case for his actions.